89954 - Allow to customize the quoting prefix (char) in non-flowed plaintext

Status: NEW

(MailNews Core :: Composition, enhancement)

Description

[wjbell]

The old style way of quoting with > are all bunched together instead of having
spaces like in NS4.

The way it is now:

> quote one
>> two
>>> three

The way it should be:

> quote one
> > two
> > > three

Which makes it easier to read when you have a lot of levels of replies.  Can
this be fixed to have spaces in between the quotes? (>)

Comment 1

[Francisco León]

Enhancement

Comment 2

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Is that in format=flowed mails? If so, the suggestion is INVALID, because the
standard asks for the spaces not to be present. See RFC2646, Section 4.5.

Even of you speak about non-flowed (which will only ever be sent out by Mozilla,
if you enable a pref without UI), I think, this should be WONTIFIX, because the
more stuff gets added in front of the lines, the more likely it is that
brian-dumb mailers like OE-Win create wrap without honoring the quotes (76-char
line + 2 times quoting + quote by OE Win and the problem is there).

So, suggest either INVALID or WONTFIX, depending on what Warren Bell meant.

Comment 3

[wjbell]

All I know is every other mail client that I've used, when you veiw messages in
plain text, always have the format of "> > >" when quoting messages.  Never
">>>".  I would just like Mozilla to act like every other client I've used and
what seems to be a standard way of doing it.

> Even of you speak about non-flowed (which will only ever be sent out by Mozilla,
> if you enable a pref without UI), I think, this should be WONTIFIX, because the
> more stuff gets added in front of the lines, the more likely it is that
brian-dumb mailers like OE-Win create wrap without honoring the quotes (76-char
> line + 2 times quoting + quote by OE Win and the problem is there).

So mozilla should adjust it's way of doing things to compensate for someone
elses broken email client?

Comment 4

[wjbell]

And if your mail window is too small in NS4 the lines break at the wrong places
also.  That's no justification for not putting spaces in between the quotes. (>)

Comment 5

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Warren, please answer first what type of message you are talking about. Does a
format=flowed appear in the headers (do View Source to check)?

> All I know is every other mail client that I've used

Mozilla is surely not the only client using ">>> ". Several news clients do.

> So mozilla should adjust it's way of doing things to compensate for someone
> elses broken email client?

It's inherent that there's problem with often-quotes lines. If you don't do what
OE does, you'll have to do fancy recognitions about what a quote is (no, not
every line starting with ">" - at least not in non-flowed).#

> And if your mail window is too small in NS4 the lines break at the wrong
> places also.

Mozilla, the successor of NN4, does it better *g*.

Comment 6

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> It's inherent that there's problem with often-quotes lines.

In non-flowed plaintext.

Comment 7

[wjbell]

> Warren, please answer first what type of message you are talking about. Does a
> format=flowed appear in the headers (do View Source to check)?

No, I disabled format=flowed in the prefs to get rid of the HTML-style quoting.
 At least I thought it had somthing to do with the HTML style.

> Mozilla is surely not the only client using ">>> ". Several news clients do.

Well, none that I've seen.  And I bet the majority use "> > > " All the ones
I've used have done it this way. (NS3.x, 4.x, OE, and possibly Pine and a few
others)

> It's inherent that there's problem with often-quotes lines. If you don't do what
> OE does, you'll have to do fancy recognitions about what a quote is (no, not
> every line starting with ">" - at least not in non-flowed).#

The thing is that OE does use the "> > > " style, so why would using the same
style in mozilla confuse it?

> Mozilla, the successor of NN4, does it better *g*.

I beg to differ on that.  Why change somthing that worked so well? (the plain
text) Why don't they have the HTML style do all the reconfiguring they want to
the message but just leave plain text the regular standard way it was in NS4?

Comment 8

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> > Warren, please answer first what type of message you are talking about.
> > Does a format=flowed appear in the headers (do View Source to check)?
> No, I disabled format=flowed in the prefs to get rid of the HTML-style
> quoting. At least I thought it had somthing to do with the HTML style.

There are different prefs for disabling f=f, for sending and display. Again,
please look at the source of the message you are objecting to and tell me, if it
contains "format=flowed".

Comment 9

[wjbell]

Like I said in the above message: No, the source of the message does not contain
format=flowed.

Comment 10

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

OK, then the request is valid. It is low-priority, because you will only ever
notice any difference, if you set a prefs without UI.

So, I suggest WONTFIX, because there is an inherent problem once a quoted line
is over >= 80 chars (and the format is not format=flowed). Removing the spaces
increases the level of quoting where the problem appears.

E.g. if the line started out as 72 (default in Mozilla), you can quote ~6 times
using ">>> "-style before you run into problems, but only 3 times using the
"> > > "-style. Some mailers create lines with 76 chars, where you can quote
only 1 (!) time with the latter style before running into problems. (For an
explanation of "problems", see above.)

Comment 11

[wjbell]

So it still a problem wheather it's 3 replies or 6.  A lot of threads go over 6
anyway.  It's not solving any problem by keeping the quotes bunched together and
it creating a new problem by making replies harder to read.

If this won't be fixed why not have a hidden pref where the user can decide? 
Maybe somthing like:

user_pref("mailnews.quoting_char", ">");

If someone wants it spaced instead of all bunched together they could use:

user_pref("mailnews.quoting_char", "> ");

Comment 12

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

That'd be OK with me, as long as the default is ">" (with a " " added after all
of them). Adjusting SUMMARY and CONFIRMing.

Comment 13

[wjbell]

Since it would be adding a space after all the quotes ">>>> text" there would
have to be somthing that would make sure if the user used "> " to add a space in
between the quotes "> > > " that it wouldn't add two spaces before the text; the
users space and the automatic space on the end of the quotes.

Comment 14

[wjbell]

Not to mention this would be a cool setting in the preferences diolog, if it
wasn't a hidden pref, to be able to specify your own quote charactor.  Some
people like to use different things to quote with.  But I'd be happy with a
hidden pref.

Comment 15

[Karsten Düsterloh]

Useful further enhancement: usage of more than one quoting character. It's 
common usage in usenet to differentiate between quoting from the previous 
posting (adding "> " at the beginning of the line) and quoting from other 
sources (adding "| " at the beginning of the line).

Comment 16

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

FYI: I think that it is a really bad idea to use anything else than ">" or "> "
for quoting, because that's the convention and the only way to recognize (for a
program) what is a quote. Programs must recognize quote in order not to wrap
that lines (to prevent "embarrasing line wrap") or to rewrap them while keeping
the quote char in the front of the line.

Karsten, yes, but that's different, because quoting other sources is another
action than reply-quoting. The pref proposed here  would exchange ">" with "|"
in *all* cases, which is not what you want. If you have a suggestion for a good
UI, feel free to file a new bug (and cc me).

Comment 17

[Jo Hermans]

*** Bug 211722 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 18

[Fenintsoa]

so, what is the last decision about this bug 89954? AFAIK but I may be wrong, 
it is not possible yet in the last version of Mozilla to customize the quote or 
at least to remove it in a case for instance of a redirection (note: unlike a 
reply or a forwarding, a redirection copy-pasts the original message with 
neither quote nor header). 

Comment 19

[Jo Hermans]

*** Bug 219254 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 20

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

*** Bug 217575 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 21

[Frank Winkler]

The problem could also be circumvented if there was a hook to pipe the mail text through an external script at all possible times: before editing, after editing, etc.