Closed Bug 1446888 (fx-l10n-crh) Opened 6 years ago Closed 5 years ago

[crh] Firefox release tracker Crimean Tatar

Categories

(Mozilla Localizations :: crh / Crimean Tatar, defect)

Product:
Mozilla Localizations
Component:
crh / Crimean Tatar
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: flod, Unassigned)

References

(Blocks 1 open bug)

Details

This is a tracker bug for releasing Firefox crh.

Your team's dashboard should be up on http://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/crh. The dashboard displays your project's status and helps you (and us) determine what's left to do. Follow it closely to track your Firefox localization progress. You will see this bug listed as part of your dashboard. This helps us to track your project's progress and provide visibility to your work.

The "bugs" here are tracking individual items of work. Some of those will depend on the localization team driving them to completion, while others are for infrastructure that will be handled by Mozilla staff. I'll indicate who is responsible in each bug.

We'll also be using two terms for interacting with version control. That's commonly mercurial, or hg, in short. "commit" is used when talking about the actual 'hg commit' command, adding changes to the local version history. "landing" means to commit something and to use 'hg push' to push it from your local version history to the one on hg.mozilla.org, mozilla's server. That's when your changes are public, and make it into the builds Mozilla generates, and puts on ftp.

If you're unsure what any of the terminology means, feel free to ask. Good places are http://www.mozilla.org/about/forums/#dev-l10n-new-locales or #l10n. Ask in public, you shouldn't assume that you're the only one with the question.
Depends on: 1446889
Depends on: 1446890
Depends on: 1446891
Depends on: 1446892
Depends on: 1446893
Depends on: 1446895
Depends on: 1446897
Component: Other → crh / Crimean Tatar
Depends on: 1455044
Depends on: 1455045
I've fixed an error, but there are a lot of warning for wrong plural forms
https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/crh

I'm still not seeing Nightly builds on FTP, hopefully they will show up in a bit.
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/nightly/latest-mozilla-central-l10n/
> I've fixed an error, but there are a lot of warning for wrong plural forms
> https://l10n.mozilla.org/teams/crh

Please make sure to not change the plural rule from 1 to 0
https://pontoon.mozilla.org/crh/firefox/toolkit/chrome/global/intl.properties/?string=81020

Builds are available in the meantime. The next steps before moving to Beta:
a) Keep up with translation via Pontoon
b) Create a group of active users on Nightly (ideally more than 10)
I haven't really been using Nightly regularly myself (considering it less stable & less secure), but i've updated a build script for one of my addons to get it & just got it in this locale, & will try to use it more regularly... My modus operandi so far has been to update l10n for stable releases, & use a lang pack on stable releases. There's a transition (towards central) that needs to happen here...
Also updated local copies of a couple of files that have been mentioned. If i have enough time, i could try verifying 
hg log <file/>
before uploading a file going forward...
It might help to try the suggestion route as well (i haven't experienced it on Pontoon yet).

I have also filed the following for hg access:
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1466107

P.S. Will try to look into 5-star ones on
https://pontoon.mozilla.org/crh/firefox/tags/
during the next l10n sprint (TODO)...
As said via email, in order to ship Crimean in release we need Nightly to be localized, and to have some users on it besides the localizers.

Regarding the HG account request: it needs to be vouched, and in order to do that I would need to review at least a few patches to make sure they look good (and I will r- patches coming from Mozilla Translator, given that they mess up formatting quite badly).

I've said it multiple times though: localization should happen via Pontoon, not via unsupported tools, and I would like to understand why that's not happening.
(In reply to Francesco Lodolo [:flod] from comment #6)
> I've said it multiple times though: localization should happen via Pontoon,
> not via unsupported tools, and I would like to understand why that's not
> happening.
As i've mentioned, there are some advantages, such as:
a. what is inherited from Turkish is marked as Fuzzy;
b. i have some comments for stuff that might be worth reviewing when there is time;
...
> Regarding the HG account request: 
On the one hand, IMHO if it is functional, formatting shouldn't matter that much, & on the other hand there are a lot of files that are not coming from MT now, so from that PoV no worries from my side.

To make sure we're on the same page:

  • To ship in 67, we need to see activity for Nightly localization before the end of the cycle. That would be March 18.
  • We need to see a group of users on Nightly (comment 3 and comment 6). Right now, there's 1 user according to Telemetry.
  • Moving forward, to ship anything in a release, the deadline for translations is about 2 weeks before (release on March 19, deadline is March 5.

(In reply to Francesco Lodolo [:flod] from comment #8)

  • To ship in 67, we need to see activity for Nightly localization before the end of the cycle. That would be March 18.

Done. You again make it sound like Nightly localization has not been consistently updated, which would be a false claim. To make this point clear, i'm again forced to provide some info from the VCS. After many long hours of work, updates have been provided for 35 files just in the last few days (of which 7 are brand new).[2]

  • We need to see a group of users on Nightly (comment 3 and comment 6). Right now, there's 1 user according to Telemetry.

This is beyond my control. And you have equivocated yet again given the following statements you made in bug 1466107 comment 9 :

Path forward: if you can localize Nightly through the next two cycles in Pontoon, clearing at least the files with higher priority (TAGS panel, 4/5 stars), I won't have a problem in moving crh to Beta and Release with Firefox 67.
https://pontoon.mozilla.org/crh/firefox/tags/

Would be nice if you kept those words.
I can also add that keeping Crimean Tatar localization imprisoned in Nightly doesn't help. First, even Firefox has only about 10% market share. 2nd, most people don't know what the heck Nightly is & can't even pronounce the word (which might even look scary for people who don't know English). Third, "Warning: Nightly is updated daily. It is most appropriate for core Mozilla contributors and early adopters, not regular users." is a turn-off (even for me, being an (unappreciated) contributor).[1]

  • Moving forward, to ship anything in a release, the deadline for translations is about 2 weeks before (release on March 19, deadline is March 5.

Done. I've specifically started updating the localization for v67 to be done with it by March 5.[2] The output from
hg diff -r 169 -r 178
is 2021 lines![3]
If somebody points out something that breaks app usability severely, i will spend some more time to address it. Alternatively, if Crimean Turkish localization moves forward to Beta channel with perspective for Release channel in May, i might also be interested in spending some more time on important items. Otherwise, i'm done with updates for Firefox 67: based on this last feedback as well, as far as i can see, it's not going anywhere anyway, even if localization ratio reaches 100% (the question Mozilla seems to be intent on putting is what's the point?).

More importantly, as a follow-up to 94% mentioned on 20190129 (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1466107#c10), https://pontoon.mozilla.org/crh/firefox/ shows 95% localization ratio for crh locale as of 20190304, including:
Browser 93%
DOM Accessibility 100%
Shared 95%

This is despite the fact that the total count of Strings increased from 11,146 on 20190129 to 11,546 on 20190304 (implying at least 400 brand new strings, in addition to many many strings that had to be updated).[4]

One more time, after many long hours of work, & increased localization ratio, Mozilla has managed to make me feel bad about working on this at all. After about 11 years of work (first Crimean Tatar langpack release was Version 3.0.0.0.0 on May 28, 2008!), & about a year in Nightly, it's time to let crh localization move forward.[5][6]

P.S.
[1] https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/nightly/all/?q=Crimean%20Tatar,%20Q%C4%B1r%C4%B1mtatarca
[2] Updates provided just in the last few days for Firefox 67:
resat@ziya-u16:V:~/development/i18n/uygulamalar/mozilla/hg/l10n-central/crh$ hg log --limit 10
changeset: 178:f73df587a1ea
tag: tip
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Mon Mar 04 05:12:42 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 177:252dc0e1a8b2
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Mon Mar 04 04:56:19 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 176:144dc1d252a0
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Sat Mar 02 07:13:20 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 175:22bd4f494860
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Sat Mar 02 06:57:32 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 174:e2642bf03c56
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Fri Mar 01 13:15:09 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 173:9635d275f3ad
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Fri Mar 01 12:38:27 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 172:5f520f304f18
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Fri Mar 01 12:14:45 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 171:a41d9721ba76
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Fri Mar 01 05:12:57 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 170:fab488de1567
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Thu Feb 28 04:13:06 2019 +0000
summary: Pontoon: Update Crimean Tatar (crh) localization of Firefox

changeset: 169:4afdcaea6276
user: Reşat SABIQ <haqer@gmx.fr>
date: Mon Feb 25 10:14:01 2019 +0100
summary: B u g 1523737 - Migrate printProgress.dtd, printPageSetup.dtd, and printPreviewProgress.dtd to Fluent, part 2.

resat@ziya-u16:V:~ /development/i18n/uygulamalar/mozilla/hg/l10n-central/crh$ # And i couldn't even submit the following changes in one command (which i think would be faster) having to do it one-by-one for 35 files (due to bug 1466107 being blocked as well).
resat@ziya-u16:V:~ /development/i18n/uygulamalar/mozilla/hg/l10n-central/crh$ hg status --rev 169 --rev 178
M browser/browser/aboutPolicies.ftl
M browser/browser/pageInfo.ftl
M browser/browser/policies/policies-descriptions.ftl
M browser/browser/preferences/blocklists.ftl
M browser/browser/preferences/preferences.ftl
M browser/chrome/browser/browser.dtd
M browser/chrome/browser/browser.properties
M browser/chrome/browser/sitePermissions.properties
M browser/chrome/browser/tabbrowser.properties
M devtools/client/accessibility.properties
M devtools/client/changes.properties
M devtools/client/debugger.properties
M devtools/client/inspector.properties
M devtools/client/layout.properties
M devtools/client/storage.properties
M devtools/client/toolbox.properties
M dom/chrome/accessibility/AccessFu.properties
M dom/chrome/dom/dom.properties
M dom/chrome/security/security.properties
M toolkit/chrome/global/aboutWebrtc.properties
M toolkit/chrome/mozapps/downloads/downloads.properties
M toolkit/chrome/mozapps/extensions/extensions.dtd
M toolkit/chrome/mozapps/handling/handling.properties
M toolkit/chrome/passwordmgr/passwordManager.dtd
M toolkit/chrome/passwordmgr/passwordmgr.properties
M toolkit/toolkit/about/aboutAddons.ftl
M toolkit/toolkit/about/aboutProfiles.ftl
M toolkit/toolkit/main-window/findbar.ftl
A browser/browser/aboutConfig.ftl
A browser/browser/newInstallPage.ftl
A browser/browser/preferences/fxaPairDevice.ftl
A browser/chrome/browser/newInstall.dtd
A devtools/client/application.ftl
A toolkit/chrome/mozapps/profile/profileDowngrade.dtd
A toolkit/toolkit/about/aboutCompat.ftl
resat@ziya-u16:V:~ /development/i18n/uygulamalar/mozilla/hg/l10n-central/crh$ hg status --rev 169 --rev 178 | wc
35 70 1499
[3] I hope not to be forced into attaching the entire diff output:
resat@ziya-u16:V:~/development/i18n/uygulamalar/mozilla/hg/l10n-central/crh$ hg diff -r 169 -r 178 | wc
2021 11127 106264
[4] I would appreciate no more insinuating that localization updates haven't been made on a regular basis. One more fact, on Apr 25, 2018 Pontoon was showing Crimean Tatar localization ratio as 81%, now it's at 95%!
[5] That's probably not what's being waited for, but given the absence of promotion towards Beta & Release, just in case green snow on the roads or black snowfall is being waited for, FYI, both of these phenomena have already happened:
https://www.trtturk.com.tr/video/rusyada-yagan-yesil-kar-endise-yaratti/182 :)
Jokes aside, i think it's really, really, really... time to move forward.
[6] If Mozilla continues to act like it's intent on making me fed up with this, my dedicated, industrious, committed, passionate, etc. attitude to this initiative might well change... And IMHO that will be nothing to be proud of for Mozilla.

(In reply to Reşat SABIQ (Reshat) from comment #9)

(In reply to Francesco Lodolo [:flod] from comment #8)

  • To ship in 67, we need to see activity for Nightly localization before the end of the cycle. That would be March 18.

Done. You again make it sound like Nightly localization has not been consistently updated, which would be a false claim. To make this point clear, i'm again forced to provide some info from the VCS. After many long hours of work, updates have been provided for 35 files just in the last few days (of which 7 are brand new).[2]

That's my fault. I checked last week, and there was no activity on Pontoon. There is activity from Feb 28 onward.
I commented here to make sure it was clear before the deadline, and I should have double checked first.

  • We need to see a group of users on Nightly (comment 3 and comment 6). Right now, there's 1 user according to Telemetry.

This is beyond my control. And you have equivocated yet again given the following statements you made in bug 1466107 comment 9 :

Path forward: if you can localize Nightly through the next two cycles in Pontoon, clearing at least the files with higher priority (TAGS panel, 4/5 stars), I won't have a problem in moving crh to Beta and Release with Firefox 67.
https://pontoon.mozilla.org/crh/firefox/tags/

Would be nice if you kept those words.

The "create a group of users on Nightly" requirement has been there from the beginning. I'm open to try and ignore this requirement for the sake of moving this locale forward.

Once again: we need to keep working on this together once (if) crh moves to beta and release. Either we keep a civilized tone in the discussion, and you stop reading everything as a personal attack (or against your locale), or we are going nowhere.

Can we please agree on this?

(In reply to Francesco Lodolo [:flod] from comment #10)

Can we please agree on this?

I want to be extremely clear at this point:

  • There's staff managing localization at Mozilla (l10n-drivers). You need to respect their decisions, even if you disagree with them (see for example the discussion around committing directly via Mercurial).
  • Let's keep the tone civil and professional. Nobody here is against you or the locale you're working on.
  • Always assume good intentions, and acknowledge that mistakes can happen on both sides.

Also a reminder that there are community participation guidelines in place
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/participation/

Can we agree on these points from now on? If not, I can only thank you for the hard work you put all these years into maintaining an unofficial language packs, I'll remove the locale from Nightly and we'll part our ways.

Flags: needinfo?(haqer)

(In reply to Francesco Lodolo [:flod] from comment #10)

That's my fault. I checked last week, and there was no activity on Pontoon. ...
... I should have double checked first.

Please do, because it's very unpleasant & painful to keep reading unjustified negative comments (that look like disinformation) over & over for a long time now.

(In reply to Francesco Lodolo [:flod] from comment #11)

Can we agree on these points from now on?

The gist of my last comment is in the bold-font (i.e., emphasized) snippets, which are mostly quantitative (with some qualitative) facts:
35 files just in the last few days
2021 lines
95% localization ratio
increased localization ratio
11 years of work
a year in Nightly
35 (files)
2021 (lines)

Most of these statements were prompted by your prior statements you apologized for above (if i hadn't written them, it would seem like i accept the implication that work hasn't been done for v67, which i was not comfortable with (because i just finished spending many long hours on exactly that very work)). I do not see a violation of any policy in any of such statements. And any attempt to spin any of the above quantitative (with some qualitative) facts into a policy violation would itself constitute a policy violation.

While I'm not sure what is the actual & factual basis of the latest threats against me (with links to policies provided for well over a year now), i can say that if there are no more comments that are prone to lead to misinterpretation (& that provoke an urge to write a response), & no more artificial blockages of the locale in question, i will not have to spend any time on providing accurate quantitative & qualitative data, such as "11 years of work", or "95% localization ratio" (on Pontoon), which will be a good thing for me, because i don't have any time and any desire for any such false debates.

As we approach the 11th anniversary of the first (unofficial) Crimean Tatar langpack submission, with 95% localization ratio (on Pontoon), the focus should be on finally moving the localization towards Beta & Release (& addressing some SUMO-related things in https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1523590 (i.e., Bug 1521551), for instance). Let's keep it positive, respectful, productive, & constructive on both sides...

P.S.

If not, I can only thank you for the hard work you put all these years into maintaining an unofficial language packs, I'll remove the locale from Nightly and we'll part our ways.

Whatever is Mozilla's attitude towards me, IMHO it would be a shocking act of vandalism (to the same extent as burning of books in an alphabet or language that's not liked by a political regime (that's been witnessed in human history)) if that attitude towards 1 person somehow was translated into a removal of the locale from the Version Control System. Unless it's proven that the contributions are 100% incorrect, they should be preserved regardless. If Mozilla can't tolerate this humble contributor, there might be another contributor in the future who Mozilla will be able to tolerate: perhaps the fellow will have a super-human life-expectancy, & will not think that 11 years of work is enough to be able to witness a stable release of the locale (while this happens within less than a year for Linux desktop distros like Gnome, for instance), & perhaps he/she will be OK with puzzling & unjustified threats intensifying from personal sanctions to vandalism against the locale (given that it already was vandalized on AMO in the past) as the years go by & with the localization ratio for the locale increasingly approaching 100%, & perhaps he/she will not care if numerous comments are written for well over a year that are not respecting the work being put in & the constantly increasing localization ratio which has reached 95% (while locales like Afrikaans are released at 56% localization ratio, & Gnome releases the same locale & many others even at 22% localization ratio, and much lower), etc.
P.P.S. As policies go both-ways, whoever handles Crimean Turkish locale at Mozilla, should probably also consult the following anti-harassment policy accessible to paid staff:
https://mana.mozilla.org/wiki/display/PR/Open+Door+Policy
( It's linked from https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/participation/#note-1 )
I can't access it, but it seems it should have some pointers that will help make the process more constructive & productive. I for one am tired of spending well over an hour (or two) around almost each and every release on false debates: this time should be going towards constructive & productive activities instead...

Flags: needinfo?(haqer)

(In reply to Reşat SABIQ (Reshat) from comment #12)

Whatever is Mozilla's attitude towards me, IMHO it would be a shocking act of vandalism (to the same extent as burning of books in an alphabet or language that's not liked by a political regime (that's been witnessed in human history)) if that attitude towards 1 person somehow was translated into a removal of the locale from the Version Control System.

The locale would be removed from the build system (no more Nightly builds), it wouldn't be removed from VCS (with history and attribution), and anybody would be free to pick it up and continue the localization.

If Mozilla can't tolerate this humble contributor […] & perhaps he/she will be OK with puzzling & unjustified threats intensifying from personal sanctions to vandalism against the locale

I've asked a simple question that requires a yes or no answer.

  • There's staff managing localization at Mozilla (l10n-drivers). You need to respect their decisions, even if you disagree with them (see for example the discussion around committing directly via Mercurial).
  • Let's keep the tone civil and professional. Nobody here is against you or the locale you're working on.
  • Always assume good intentions, and acknowledge that mistakes can happen on both sides.

Also a reminder that there are community participation guidelines in place
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/participation/

Is it yes or no? At this point, another tirade like your last comment will be interpreted as a no.

(In reply to Francesco Lodolo [:flod] from comment #13)

Is it yes or no?

Yes. Obviously, i want my long years of work to have a positive impact, not to see it all be in vain. I also believe i've acted in accordance with Mozilla's policies & mission, & i intend on continuing to do so.

P.S.

The locale would be removed from the build system (no more Nightly builds), it wouldn't be removed from VCS (with history and attribution), and anybody would be free to pick it up and continue the localization.

I believe such treatment wouldn't be much better: it would be more like censorship (something exists, but regular people don't have access to it), but the end result would be the same, namely, regular people wouldn't have an opportunity to use the app in this locale (even in an unstable branch).

At this point, another tirade like your last comment [...]

Given that even me mentioning quantitative facts like "11 years of work" or "95% localization ratio" is somehow considered a tirade (& to avoid tasteless false debates involving threats), I believe basic professionalism, Mozilla's policies (like the afore-mentioned
https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/about/governance/policies/participation/
&
https://mana.mozilla.org/wiki/display/PR/Open+Door+Policy
), as well as common rules of ethics & civility, suggest that Mozilla staff going forward needs to spend a few seconds to check
https://pontoon.mozilla.org/crh/firefox/, etc.
& run
hg incoming
(&/or
hg log --limit 10
etc.)
before making any comment that is likely to be interpreted as criticism of lack or absence of work (or progress) being done. We are all humans here, & need to act accordingly.

Will reopen this if there are new contributors interested in picking up the existing work.

Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 5 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Depends on: 1573386
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