There is no way to set the reading/composing directionality via the UI
Categories
(MailNews Core :: Internationalization, defect)
Tracking
(Not tracked)
People
(Reporter: xslf, Assigned: smontagu)
References
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Details
(Keywords: rtl)
Attachments
(4 obsolete files)
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Comment 41•5 years ago
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(In reply to :ehsan akhgari from comment #39)
We're still working on the specification in the W3C HTML bidi group. It
should then be submitted to the WHATWG group for submission. I don't think
that anyone has started to work on the implementation yet.
Has the specification to the HTML bidi group been submitted yet?
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Comment 42•5 years ago
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@DotanCohen:
Answering your second-to-last comment - from 2011 (!), here are some aspects of the reason:
- The BiDi Mail UI code is an ex-post-facto hack. What you want is the layout engine to implement something - which is not what my extension does. That means that integrating the BiDi Mail UI functionality will not involve integrating the code.
- ... actually, it's more complicated than that, because there's the question of what to apply direction to. That's another heuristic; but it also involves how messages are represented and rendered into (X)HTML (e.g. do multiple P elements get created for plain-text messages with \x10 \x10 sequences?) that means messing with MIME library code. The core of that code is from the early 1990s, and nobody will touch it. It will, at some point, be replaced by a Javascript-based MIME library (maybe this is even further along than I realize).
- There's also the matter of caching the results of applying the direction-detection heuristic. That could also possibly be handled by the layout engine, but maybe it doesn't/wouldn't do that.
- Not enough Arabic, Farsi, Hebrew and Urdu speakers/emailers in the userbase to push this.
- Zero or just-about-zero Arabic, Farsi, Hebrew and Urdu speakers/emailers among the core developers to push this.
- (A bit of a rant/slightly conspiratorial) A weird mentality that has took root overtime among some people recently, supporting over-simplification and slimming-down of the application as something the users supposedly want/need/must have. It's also a bit of a chicken-and-egg situation, since the users who need some feature are driven away, then apparently no users want that feature.
Comment 43•5 years ago
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Thank you Eyal!
mentality that has took root overtime among some people recently, supporting
over-simplification and slimming-down of the application as something the
users supposedly want/need/must have
Actually, I'm all for slimming down the application to just the core components needed to fetch, read, compose, and send email. And since setting the reading and composing directional of the text is core to reading and composing email, of course it should be implemented. Implementing this feature does support the goal of slimming down Thunderbird to the core functionality only.
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Comment 44•5 years ago
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I meant over-simplification and slimming-down of the UI.
Also - what you or I believe is in the core is not what others believe is in the core. However - it is not inconceivable that some sort of a petition to the TB council could have a stronger effect than my occasional remark on the TB discussion mailing list. A petition/letter with speakers of several RTL languages, and it would be even better if it could include a few semi-well-known people.
Just a thought.
Comment 45•5 years ago
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To what extent is this bug a duplicate of 464436? In other words, what parts of this bug are not covered in bug 464436?
Also, should bug 96057 not be marked as dependency of one of these?
And are other core bugs from https://mzl.la/31atXTD needed?
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Comment 46•5 years ago
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Bug 464436 is more specific in that it regards a specific path to addressing directionality control, and at the same time more general in that it involves more missing functionality. So, not a dupe.
About bug 96057 - it's about paragraph direction, while this is about entire-message direction. Also, that one is about composition and this one is - at least in title - about both composition and reading. I suppose that's why they haven't been marked dupes of each other.
From the above you can also gather why 96057 and 464436 are not dupes of each other.
As for the longer list - I'll have a look tomorrow or later this week.
Is there any interest in getting some work done on this?
Comment 47•5 years ago
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(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #46)
Bug 464436 is more specific in that it regards a specific path to addressing directionality control, and at the same time more general in that it involves more missing functionality.
About bug 96057 - it's about paragraph direction, while this is about entire-message direction. Also, that one is about composition and this one is - at least in title - about both composition and reading. I suppose that's why they haven't been marked dupes of each other.
Thank you for clarifying - very helpful. So should this bug focus on the reading functionality, and leave the others to focus on composition?
Is there any interest in getting some work done on this?
I don't know. I am asking around to see determine the interest and what is possible. If anything happens it would obviously depend heavily on what the user and add-on community is willing to contribute - you in particular since you clearly understand the issues very well.
Comment 48•5 years ago
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So should this bug focus on the reading functionality, and leave
the others to focus on composition?
The way this bug is worded, it addresses both. But I agree that they are two separate issues. Perhaps one of the dupes that addresses either should be reopened, and this bug focus on the other.
For me personally, received emails are decypherable with the (currently) incorrect directionality, but it is very important to me to send email with the proper directionality. So I would vote to prioritize composition. However, some people would have valid reasons to emphasize a priority on reading.
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Comment 49•5 years ago
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@Dotan:
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I am going to make a TB-78 compatible version of BiDi Mail UI soon. So are you referring to the immediate state of affairs; to the fact that the functionality is not in the core; or to the functionality that cannot be introduced through an extension?
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I don't think the "bug configuration" matters all that much. If someone wants to have a clean-slate description of the state of affairs, I'd think some sort of Wiki page somewhere would be a good place for that.
@Wayne:
So should this bug focus on the reading functionality, and leave the others to focus on composition?
See point (2.) of my reply to Dotan. I don't think playing with the bug titles is worth the trouble.
I am asking around to see determine the interest and what is possible.
I was hoping you would say something like "this came up in a council discussion, people said that we need to be more accommodating of other languages and cultures, we decided we should put some developer time on it" ...
If anything happens it would obviously depend heavily on what the user and add-on community is willing to contribute you in particular since you clearly understand the issues very well.
See point (1.) of my reply to Dotan and the question there.
Comment 50•5 years ago
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- I am going to make a TB-78 compatible version of BiDi Mail UI soon. So are you referring to the
immediate state of affairs; to the fact that the functionality is not in the core; or to the functionality
that cannot be introduced through an extension?
All of the above, really. From the end user perspective the result is the same.
I was hoping you would say something like "this came up in a council discussion, people said
that we need to be more accommodating of other languages and cultures, we decided we should
put some developer time on it" ...
Completely disregarding Eyal and my own language Hebrew, Arabic is also RTL and it is the fifth most widely spoken language in the world. Persians, Kurds, and Urdu are also significantly large populations with RTL languages.
Updated•3 years ago
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Description
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