134765 - tables compress more space than before

Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX

(Core :: Layout: Tables, enhancement)

Description

[Jamie Zawinski]

In NS4, there were two idioms I used often to get table
spacing right that no longer work:

   1:  putting <SPACER SIZE=n> on the left side of the content
       of a table cell to add whitespace on the left;

   2:  using <TD NOWRAP>text </TD> to cause there to be a single
       space-character worth of space in the cell.  For example,
       if you wanted to do word alignment as in a mail header,
       with wrapping:

            Subject: All work and no play makes Jack a dull
                     boy.  All work and no play makes Jack a
                     dull boy.

       you'd use a table with CELLPADDING/SPACING of 0, and
       force a single SPC to show up between the colon and the
       first A, inside the "Subject" cell.

Well, these tricks no longer work.  Here's one example, possibly
not the best, but the one I first noticed:

http://grendel/jwz/doc/threading.html

I'll attach a screenshot showing the difference.

Comment 1

[Jamie Zawinski]

Attachment: ns4 vs m099 screenshot

Comment 2

[Jamie Zawinski]

oops, internal url; I meant http://www.jwz.org/doc/threading.html

Comment 3

[Christopher Hoess (gone)]

->HTML Tables

Comment 4

[Bernd]

Attachment: opera screenshot

Comment 5

[Bernd]

Attachment: ie

Comment 6

[Bernd]

1. what is spacer, a netscape extension, doesn't <td width="xx"> do the job?
2. <td nowrap> </td> a single space, if you really need this wrap the space with
<pre>
3. we render this exactly as IE and opera, reporter may be you should try some
more standards compliant methods to get the layout right.

Comment 7

[Jamie Zawinski]

> 1. what is spacer, a netscape extension, 

Yes.

> doesn't <td width="xx"> do the job?

No, that sets the width of the entire cell instead of
adding N to the auto-computed width of the cell.

> 2. <td nowrap> </td> a single space, if you really need
> this wrap the space with <pre>

<PRE> comes with implicit <P>, so that's no good.

> 3. we render this exactly as IE and opera, reporter may
> be you should try some sore standards compliant methods
> to get the layout right.

It was my understanding that one of this project's goals
was to remain compatible with earlier Netscape behavior.
The NOWRAP behavior I described has been in there since
Netscape 0.4.  The SPACER tag has been in there since
either 2.1 or 3.0, I don't remember.

Comment 8

[Jamie Zawinski]

> The NOWRAP behavior I described has been in there since
> Netscape 0.4.

Sorry, that would have been 1.1 -- the release when we
invented the TABLE tag.

Comment 9

[Hixie (not reading bugmail)]

> <PRE> comes with implicit <P>, so that's no good.

If you mean it has default margins, then yeah, so just reset them with CSS.


> It was my understanding that one of this project's goals
> was to remain compatible with earlier Netscape behavior.

Not any more, to my knowledge... N4.x is pretty much irrelevant these days.


Since this bug appears to be a request for us to implement a non-standard
element <spacer>, marking WONTFIX. The effect you are looking far can already be
achieved using CSS.

Comment 10

[Jamie Zawinski]

> Not any more, to my knowledge...

Good to see the sane decisions are still coming strong and fast.

> N4.x is pretty much irrelevant these days.

What does that make Mozilla?  As soon as Mozilla is even 
a *blip* in my http logs, I'll let you know!

Comment 11

[Hixie (not reading bugmail)]

> What does that make Mozilla?

Mozilla is totally irrelevant (in this context). Backwards compatability with
previous Mozilla releases has never been an argument for implementing or not
implementing a non-standard extension to the layout engine, to my knowledge.

Comment 12

[Blake Ross]

verified.

Please, please let us know when people start visiting your website, we are all 
anxious to hear.

Comment 13

[Brendan Eich [:brendan]]

You guys are soooo mean!

/be