161989 - Adding Editable Manual Proxy Settings

Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX

(Camino Graveyard :: Preferences, enhancement)

Description

[MyBugzillaAcc]

I would like the Chimera team to consider adding a UI element for manual proxy
settings in File -> Prefernces.  I'm more or less thinking of UI akin to that of
Mozilla's manual proxy settings in Mozilla -> Preferences -> Advanced ->
Proxies.  The proxy settings are initially inherited from Mac OS X Network
Preferences (if the user has entered proxy settings in Mac OS X Finder's
Preferences -> Network -> Proxies), but can be edited and modified.

Comment 1

[Winnie Lam]

prefs -> sfraser

Comment 2

[Max Horn]

I wonder, what purposes would this serve? Are there really situations 
where you would want all browsers to use one HTTP proxy set in the 
system preferences, and only Chimera to use a different HTTP proxy?

Comment 3

[MyBugzillaAcc]

The case perhaps would the ability to browse the internal web sites that do require the 
ability to go through corporate proxies (as is my case), while having your other browsers 
that doesn't require proxies connect directly to the net.  

Most frequently when I'm working remotely, connecting to Sun's WAN, and working from 
behind a corporate firewall, I turn the proxy settings on in the Network preferences using 
a work profile. When I'm off the Sun's WAN, I would turn off the proxy settings by going 
back to a home profile.  In case of the user's such as myself, it is perhaps beneficial, 
having a single Network profile, and having browsers (if needs be) maintain proxy 
settings.

More recently, I've resorted in mainting a single Network profile.  I use Mozilla for all 
internal corporate work, and from home, I use another browser. I have setup Mozilla to 
use my manual proxy settings when on Sun's WAN, whilst having the other browser 
connect directly to the net and when I am not working from behind a corporate firewall.

Comment 4

[MyBugzillaAcc]

Most Mac OS X users working remotely and connecting to Sun's WAN via DSL or Cable 
Modem services, that I'm alluding to in comment #3,  fall into one or the other of the 
above catagories.  Namely, they either have two Network profiles, or have a single 
network profile and two browsers with different proxy settings.

Having UI similar to Mozilla's proxy setting preferences allows Chimera Navigtor users 
the freedoom of choice.  The UI may be as simple as an option to either use Network 
preferences proxy settings or connect directly to the network.  The UI may also be on par 
with the UI in Mozilla -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Proxies with editable text fields.

Comment 5

[Greg K.]

What percentage of Chimera's users would benefit from this feature?

Comment 6

[MyBugzillaAcc]

I believe all user's working remotely and having to connect to their internal corporate web 
sites via a secure proxy server, and at home having to connect directly to internet.  At 
least, 200+ Mac users subscribing to my internal News and Developer alias, going 
through either/or of configurations in comments #3 and comments #4, and as they have 
discussed it on the internal alias.

Comment 7

[Steve Smart]

Re: Comment 6, for average users who use thier machine for corporate and home
use, it is vastly easier to use the location manager then set up different proxy
settings in different browsers; you can change locations via the Apple menu in
Mac OS X. But I can see your point about power users wanting to have two
browsers open, one with one set of proxy settings and one with another.

Would this still be necessary if we fixed bug 156115 to allow people to use a
Proxy Auto-Config file? Power users could write their own, and in a situation
like the one you descibe with 200 employees, it could then be shared will all of
them instead of them all manually entering values in a pref pane noone in our
target audience will ever use.

Comment 8

[Max Horn]

I am still not convinde this RFE is valid (and unless other more convincing 
reasons are brought up would vote to close it as WONTFIX). Mostly for the 
reasons Steve mentiond: the Apple Location Manager is there to solve 
exactly this problem, and I use it for exactly this myself (at home I have no 
proxy and DSL and at work I am behind a proxy and get Internet via our 
LAN). A single click is sufficient to set me up. I'd never even though about 
having two different browsers, one for home and one for work, to be 
honest :-) So .. clumsy. (just my two cents and no offense meant :-)

Comment 9

[B.R. Collins]

I am sure Max the 200+ users at Sun won't be at all offended by your remarks ;-)  I think 
deeming a group of users "clumsy" (or at least that is what may be infered from your 
remarks) due to their work preferences in having multiple browsers [the language and 
the wording] is a bit too strong for a public forum.

I don't know what the big deal is here.  I would like to have proxy preference options like 
Mozilla implemented for Chimera.  This UI will simply bring up Chimera to the level of 
other simple and fast browsers like OmniWeb and Opera that have implemented similar 
proxy preference options.

And as per comment 7 by Steve, I think when Babak in description section of this RFE, 
and subsequent comments 3 and 4, was referring to, was a combination of bug 156115 
and this one.  I think Babak in comment 4 hinted as much when a reference was made to 
"Mozilla -> Preferences -> Advanced -> Proxies with editable text fields."  The proxy 
preferences in Mozilla does have options for manual proxy settings, direct connection to 
the internet, and PAC settings (if I remember correctly).  

The UI for setting proxy options in Mozilla is  rather simple.  A similar implementation of 
UI in Chimera will be only borrowing from the simple proxy option settings' UI of Mozilla.  
Personally, I see this only as a much welcomed enhancement to Chimera Navigator.

Comment 10

[Max Horn]

I don't see any proxxy preferences in OmniWeb 4.1, where are they 
supposed to be (I only looked in the preferences, but maybe I just turned 
blind again :-)

I believe the main reason IE, Mozilla and Opera have proxy settings on 
Mac OS X is that they also have them on MacOS 9, and their other host 
systems (Windows/Linux/...). Unlike OS X, these systems don't have a 
central place to setup proxies AFAIK (well, OS 9 now has, but for a long 
time the old MacOS didn't have such a thing). So there they *have* to offer 
these settings.

The reason why I make such a fuzz is that I still can't see why resources 
should be spent to add this (make a prefs pane, write the code, Q&A, ...) 
for a feature for which I still see no real gain. However, that is just me. If 
this gets added to Chimera, I will certainly not object, but I just fail to see 
the point behind it.

So far the only argument I understood is: "200+ people at Sun are used to 
having two browsers with different proxies setup. They don't like the 
alternative approach of using the OSX location feature" (please correct me 
if I misstate this!). This certainly is there good right, I won't argue that. But 
if we implement every single feature somebody wants, we end up with 
Mozilla again. Chimera is a lot about keeping it simple, at least to my 
understanding.

To avoid another misunderstanding: this is not meant as a rant or to 
make your personal work habbits bad, I fully respect them. 

Comment 11

[Max Horn]

[Sorry this was meant to be posted before my other comment]

Sorry if this got across wrong (I  am not a native speaker, so sometimes 
that happens to me :-/). Anyway, what I meant with clumsy was simply that 
IMHO it is somewhat irritating to use two different browsers based on the 
location. Normally I have one prefered browser that I would like to use 
wherever I am, and if somebody would tell me: "oh, just use a different 
browser if you are at work than when you are at hom", and if they would try 
to make me do that, I'd be very unhappy. I much prefer being able to use 
the same browser everywhere and switch my location prefs with one click. 

I certainly didn't mean to suggest these 200+ users are clumsy or stupid 
or anything, and if they are happy with that setup then that's just fine by me 
- it's just that *I* (and I think other peoples, too) would not be happy with 
such a setup at all :-)

Comment 12

[B.R. Collins]

As I said in comment 9 the UI that was suggested in description section of this rfe already 
exists in Mozilla.  It is a simple enough UI.  The suggestion is to have a similar prefernce 
in Chimera, and it will be a welcomed addition to chimera.  

I really don't think adding this RFE + 156115 to Chimera will bring this Navigator to the 
level of Mozilla.  Additionally, I don't think this particular RFE will slow down Chimera 
Navigator or add much to the size.

This is not an unreasonable rfe.  It is all about having options...and I for one choose to 
have this option, this rfe+156115.

Comment 13

[benc]

This is really a design question: how much is Chimera going to be the lean,
fast, Mac OS-style browser? If Location Manager is insufficient, then what is
really needed is bug 88218.

B.R.: As the QA person for Proxy, I like Chimera's current feature set, because
the Mozilla proxy dialog has too many problems. The design is also very out of
date, because it was an attempt to ensure compatability with Netscape
Communicator 4. Mozilla needs a complete overhaul of that pref UI. If we are
going to take that architectural mess into Chimera, we need to think about it
carefully.

Adding PAC support would make sense because it is a broswer-level feature that
Mac OS does not manage, and could be done in a manner similar to the way we do
home pages. 

Babak: If I understand what you are saying, you are saying that you cannot use
Location Manager for your needs.

Comment 14

[Simon Fraser [no longer active]]

Is there still need for this bug now that chimera updates its proxy info when
you change the OS proxy settings (or change Location)?

Comment 15

[benc]

As networking qa, I think this is a design decision. As a Netscape employee and
as an at-large contributor, I like the idea that Chimera would be tightly
coupled to existing OS features.

Simon, can you explain how the current OS integration works? I looked for a
description but could not find one.

Comment 16

[Jon Baumgartner]

I use privoxy, which requires that I set my browsers to use a proxy. This is
fine, but I also use WebDAV to connect to work servers. If the system-wide proxy
is turned on, I cannot mount the WebDAV servers in the Finder. If I could turn
on the proxy just for Chimera, I could use privoxy and mount my WebDAV shares on
the desktop.

Mozilla lets me do this. Why not Chimera?

Comment 17

[Ludovic Hirlimann [:Usul]]

This would be nice for 1.0

Comment 18

[Samuel Sidler (old account; do not CC)]

I think this would be great for 1.0, but I don't think it's needed or that it
will make it.

Targeting for 1.1.

Comment 19

[Simon Fraser [no longer active]]

Note that you can now set the hidden pref "camino.use_system_proxy_settings" to
false, and enter proxy settings into prefs.js (or copy them from Mozilla).

Comment 20

[Smokey Ardisson (offline for a while; not following bugs - do not email)]

(In reply to comment #19)
> Note that you can now set the hidden pref "camino.use_system_proxy_settings" to
> false, and enter proxy settings into prefs.js (or copy them from Mozilla).

Given that, do we really need a UI for this (which, if I understand correctly,
is the only remaining part of this bug)?  

To me the scenarios described in this bug seem uncommon and "geeky" (no offense
intended to our 200+ friends at Sun) and something best left as a hidden pref
for those who need it (or, if a UI is really necessary, the exact sort of thing
the "new" custom drop-in prefPane functionality is designed for).

Comment 21

[Simon Fraser [no longer active]]

I don't think we want manual proxy UI.

Comment 22

[benc]

V/wontfix.

If we ever decide to add this, I'll help w/ the testing.