Closed Bug 212779 Opened 22 years ago Closed 21 years ago

Firefox needs its own throbber

Categories

(Firefox :: Toolbars and Customization, defect, P1)

Product:
Firefox
Component:
Toolbars and Customization
Type:
defect

Tracking

()

Status:
RESOLVED FIXED
Milestone:
Firefox1.0

People

(Reporter: megabyte, Assigned: kerz)

References

Details

(Keywords: polish)

Attachments

(14 files, 1 obsolete file)

New throbber: still frame, large
1.60 KB, image/png
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New throbber: still frame, small
950 bytes, image/png
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New throbber: animated, large
10.64 KB, image/gif
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New throbber: animated, small
5.88 KB, image/gif
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New throbber, softer version: still frame, large
2.14 KB, image/png
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New throbber, softer version: still frame, small
1.14 KB, image/png
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New throbber, softer version: animated, large
12.35 KB, image/gif
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New throbber, softer version: animated, small
6.31 KB, image/gif
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New throbber, even softer version: still frame, large
1.93 KB, image/png
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New throbber, even softer version: still frame, small
1.09 KB, image/png
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New throbber, even softer version: animated, large
12.00 KB, image/gif
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New throbber, even softer version: animated, small
6.20 KB, image/gif
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Proposed throbber - "Take back the web"-style, 57x16
27.04 KB, image/gif
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Mock-up of individual throbbers for Firefox and Thunderbird
3.08 KB, image/png
Details
Firebird needs its own throbber rather than the Qute "Q," which doesn't make any sense for the default theme and could confuse new users. Either the Mozilla "M" throbber should be used, or a new one designed, perhaps based on the about box logo. If the latter is desired, I'd be happy to make one. Also, could the current "Q" be considered as infringing on id Software's Quake logo?
I agree that Arvid's Qute icon should be replaced. In my opinion, a new Mozilla Firebird application icon should be designed, and that could probably be used as a throbber too, once finished. Arvid, are you up to the task? :)
What's wrong with the current icon? IMO this is a WONTFIX. We have better things to do, than care about this stuff. (David, see Mike's and my mail for example)
Severity: normal → trivial
I've already stated what's wrong with the current icon. I just saw some Mozillazine posts of people asking what the icon was supposed to be. Anyway, don't go saying "we have better things to do." I volunteered to fix it.
Simon, whether we have "more important stuff" to do or not has nothing to do with the validity of this bug report. I didn't target this bug at a specific release nor did I set any priority flag, did I?
David, this bug is simply INVALID (not WONTFIX, sorry for that), since we already have a unique throbber icon for Firebird.
Umm no we do not. As I already said, the throbber is from the Qute theme (and that's why it's Q-shaped). Having a "unique" throbber and having "its own" throbber are two entirely different things. I see mozilla.org just replaced the Q logo with the Firebird logo on their main page. That seems to show an intention of eventually doing what this bug asks.
Attached image throbber size problem (obsolete) —
The current throbber makes the menu bar height expand 5 pixels in Windows XP (ugly, ugly). Since this, and not the taller navigation toolbar, is the default position for the throbber, the new throbber should be smaller so this space does not expand.
well, we have a new icon now, so it'd be a good time for a new throbber to match. see bug 170677 for details.
The size problem is not the throbber, but the chrome I believe. Still it is possible that it would be easier to change the throbber than the chrome. In any case, that is not this bug, please file another one for that issue.
Attachment #128586 - Attachment is obsolete: true
I just took the Firebird logo and made it spin like the current throbber. I can provide MNG animated versions when support for it comes back. Even if this isn't the final throbber design, it should be sufficient to fix branding for now. Kerz, is this acceptable? If so, can it go in now?
I'll take this and drive it.
Assignee: hyatt → kerz
These are a good start. My initial thoughts for the throbber were this, the flames would change color, and look like actual fire. I dunno if anyone is up for giving this a try, but I'd love to see it in action if anyone wants to do it. I'll talk to ben about the ones currently attached and get his thoughts on this as well.
Yep, those were my thoughts too. I just didn't have time to do a "real" flame animation, and was hoping this could work until I or someone else does have the time.
Created a "softer" version, which better fits with the default theme. Does anybody have a vector version of the Firebird logo? That would help get a flame animation created much faster.
I made another version, which is much more like the theme (colored outlines), but I'll only attach it upon request, don't want to spam this bug more.
keep posting, no one minds i'm sure :).
The new "softer version" really shows that there are work to be done on the application icon. This softer version looks *much* more proffesional, with almost no changes made at all. The thing that struck me about the new app icon was that it was too red, almost glowing compared to the blue background of the Windows XP window frame. The softer version just looks better, even as an application icon. My (slightly OT) question for you kerz is: is the new app icon really final, or do you accept enhancements of the icon (or even better, a new icon designed by Arvid, the theme author)?
Taking QA Contact
QA Contact: asa → bugzilla
I tried to make some "flame" animations, but without the original art in vector form, they came out looking terrible.
Keywords: polish
The "even softer" icons look "even better"... :) Warmer colors. <ot>I can imagine that icon with a drop-shadow (XP-like) for the app icon.</ot>
I propose a throbber that goes from nothing, to the firebird flame, and then to the firebird. In any case we should at least put in Aaron's new throbber. It's loads better than the current one. At least with the new one, you know the browser is firebird.
I tried what you suggested, but the problem is that in 32x32, the Firebird becomes too small. You can't even tell what it is at 20x20. (I was going to make the Firbird flap or something). If the current one (even softer version) is approved, I have a more touched up version (softest yet version ;-)
Blocks: 214218
No longer blocks: 214218
Blocks: 214123
kerz, target this for 0.7?
Someone should make a patch to replace the throbber so it can be reviewed, super-reviewed, and (hopefully) checked in.
Depends on: 227099
All the attachments to this bug should be marked obsolete now, as the new icon is nothing like the flamy throbbers proposed. I don't know of a way (if there even is one) to do it to all of them at once, tho, so I'll let someone else do the spamming ;-). As for an idea for the actual throbber: This would be something Arvid would have to do himself as he's the one with the original vector files, but how about this for a proposal: first, start with the current globe+stylized F app icon. Give the F an animated sheen that moves from left to right, recyling. Then, have the background globe revolve. Run both animations at once, either 1:1 or 2:1 ratio. Or is this a little too busy? In my mind's eye it looks okay, but I'd have to see a real version to be certain. Or perhaps just the moving sheen and no globe-turning? (I'd think the motion in the opposite change would be too obscured by the F.) This is mostly unrelated to the bug topic, but how does this bug block Thunderbird needing a throbber (bug 214123)? Given the different app uses I would think different throbbers would be expected, if a shared throbber is the rationalization.
I like the idea of the sheen on the f (and the spinning globe for that matter). It's kind of a throwback to the Netscape N. :)
*** Bug 227099 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Upgrading. The most frequent question I get asked by new Firebird users is "What is that Q?" or even "What is that G?" It would be a lot more professional if we could get something in for the next version. Can somebody implement comment #37? It's a little hard to implement a spinning globe without the original materials. I won't have time until next week... I still think *anything* is better than what we have now... Kerz? Arvid?
Severity: trivial → minor
Flags: blocking0.8?
not critical and I don't think one exists that meets the requirements in 227099
Flags: blocking0.8? → blocking0.8-
I suggest just a Firefox logo. When active, the globe could rotate.
Summary: Firebird needs its own throbber → Firefox needs its own throbber
Flags: blocking0.9?
with regards to the animation on the firefox throbber, I think the fox should do something as the globe is quite small in the trobber. Also the throbber shouldn't grow when you press "use large icons" as it's different than a normal button.
i think the throbber needs to grow when you use large icons or else it looks stupid. the throbber has grown along with the icons in every version of every browser i know of.
The throbber should be sized to fit the toolbar it's on. If you put in on a toolbar with large icons on, it'd be large. If the button icons are large, but the throbber is on the menu bar, without any buttons, the throbber would still be small. I think this solution is the most intuitive and least annoying.
Firefox 0.8 still uses the Q-shaped bird-thing throbber.
Proposal for the style of the new throbber. Based on one of andman42's suggestions from http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=52698 (wich in their turn were based on the new brand). The advantage of the croped top-of-the-globe version over using a full globe is that this makes it possible to see the rotating motion without making the image to high for the menubar. (This version has a height of 16px.) Note that this is just a proposal of the style, as the members of the Visual Identity Team will be much better suited to make the final version. This version isn't optimized and might be a little rough about the edges. The rotation isn't that beautyful either ...
I like the concept. Of course, the final thing shouldn't be a GIF ;)
(In reply to comment #48) > I like the concept. Of course, the final thing shouldn't be a GIF ;) It has to be GIF. Default Firefox builds don't support MNG.
for now. does anyone know Ben's opinion on MNG? It seems like a really bad decision to cut it from builds to save a couple of K when it ends up actually making the distribution bigger due to the GIF throbber.
(In reply to comment #50) > for now. does anyone know Ben's opinion on MNG? It seems like a really bad > decision to cut it from builds to save a couple of K when it ends up actually > making the distribution bigger due to the GIF throbber. Um, MNG support is ~160 KB while the throbber is only ~25 KB.
most of these attachments are now obselete due to the recent rebranding
> Um, MNG support is ~160 KB while the throbber is only ~25 KB. But MNG throbbers look several hundred percent nicer due to the antialiasing that can be done with the alpha-transparency feature. The MNG people seem to care as much or more about download filesize as anyone: Official FF 0.8 Windows exe, from mozilla.org: 6500332 bytes Unofficial FF 0.8 Windows exe from mngzilla.sf.net: 5574054 bytes The size difference is due more to choice of compression method (we use 7-zip) than to the size of libmng. Note that 160k of libmng code gets compressed to about 50k while the GIF is already compressed and is still 25k in the download. Also it is possible to remove libpng and provide PNG support via libmng, saving another 50k or so before compression.
(In reply to comment #53) Noted advantages aside, this bug isn't the place for MNG discussions. The better bug for that is bug 18574, which is so overloaded with advocacy that it's completely useless for its original purpose.
CCing Jon Hicks who did the new Firefox logo.
This is one of the tasks that the branding team is looking at. It is a shame we can't use MNG - this has to be a gif
*** Bug 240024 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
This is a minor polish bug. It certainly shouldn't block Firefox 0.9 which is a feature-driven release. Maybe a possible candidate for blocking 1.0beta or 1.0, though.
Flags: blocking0.9? → blocking0.9-
(In reply to comment #58) > This is a minor polish bug. It certainly shouldn't block Firefox 0.9 which is a > feature-driven release. Maybe a possible candidate for blocking 1.0beta or 1.0, > though. According to a blog post on http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/djst/ it sounds like there will indeed be a new throbber for 0.9. Judging by the picture, tho, I'm not sure if it's just a stand-in or the Real Thing (as it's rather ugly compared to the rest of the interface).
(In reply to comment #59) > According to a blog post on http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/djst/ it sounds like > there will indeed be a new throbber for 0.9. Judging by the picture, tho, I'm If it happens, excellent. If not, it's no reason to hold up the 0.9 release.
Flags: blocking1.0?
Any idea as to when the new version of the Qute theme, as seen in comment 59, will be checked in?
Flags: blocking1.0? → blocking1.0+
Priority: -- → P1
Target Milestone: --- → Firefox1.0
*** Bug 242699 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
(In reply to comment #59) > According to a blog post on http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/djst/ it sounds like > there will indeed be a new throbber for 0.9. I guess then that Firefox and Thunderbird (since 0.6) will have the same throbber.
just what bug 232699 suggested.
Clicking the throbber takes the user to the product's homepage. It makes sense that clicking a Firefox (or Tb) logo takes you to Firefox's (or Tb's) homepage; it doesn't make sense that clicking a ring of dots takes you to Firefox's (or Tb's) homepage. So, the throbber should contain a product icon. Given that Tb's ring of dots is circular, and that the Firefox and Thunderbird logos are roughly circular, I suggest combining the current (Tb) throbber with the product logo. I've mocked up an example of a still throbber, and a snapshot of an active throbber, for Firefox and Thunderbird. I've used quick screenshots, just to give an impression of what it'd look like. I haven't considered the smaller size of throbber. Thess designs probably won't scale well; similar ones, with the dots tighter around the logos, may.
While I agree that a non-related throbber doesn't make sense as a link to the product page, I don't like much the idea of a application-related throbber. Seems to me like too much self-advertising (the user already has an icon on the top left and the app name somewhere around the middle of the title bar; does he also need some indication of what program he's using on the right side of the screen?). But having a clickable throbber, while not completely necessary, is nice to offer a quick link. So, I suggest here that the throbber remains a circle of dots (I like this one, btw), but when the mouse passes over it the application logo appears in ~0.7 opacity over the circle, fitting it (as the graphics artist has the sources to the logos, he can make a 22x22 version, or whatever fits that throbber).
I agree with daniel. A circular dot throbber looks more professional and attractive.
The circular dot throbber, while being nice, and similar to what I see in Gnome (Fedora Core), it is also very similar to what is used in the advertising for a local TV station here in New Zealand.
(In reply to comment #66) > But having a clickable throbber, while not completely necessary, is nice to > offer a quick link. So, I suggest here that the throbber remains a circle of > dots (I like this one, btw), but when the mouse passes over it the application > logo appears in ~0.7 opacity over the circle, fitting it (as the graphics artist > has the sources to the logos, he can make a 22x22 version, or whatever fits that > throbber). I like this idea better :)
The new discussion is fine... but as for the original intent of this bug, with the new theme pathces having landed, isn't this bug now RESOLVED/FIXED? Could someone please set accordingly.
Not really, because it still doesn't have its OWN throbber.
As it was originally reported: ------ Firebird needs its own throbber rather than the Qute "Q," which doesn't make any sense for the default theme and could confuse new users. Either the Mozilla "M" throbber should be used, or a new one designed, perhaps based on the about box logo. If the latter is desired, I'd be happy to make one. Also, could the current "Q" be considered as infringing on id Software's Quake logo? ------ Has this not been done? If so, please close this. If a new bug is in need for "Firefox needs a seperate throbber from Thunderbird", please open that bug.
What part of "its own" do you not understand? Internet apps have traditionally had branded throbbers. Simply replacing one throbber with another does not constitute fixing this bug. Replacing the (unexplained to most users) Q is only half of the problem. On top of this, with this new throbber, there isn't a large version. Do not try to reinterpret MY initial report: the issues have not been resolved.
Well, I was being polite in asking you to confirm or close this, but I see you aren't going to give me the same grace, so, best of luck with your endeavor. God forbid one try to actually keep the list of bugs in check. I see that the discussion has gotten far more in depth than you original report, but I suggest that YOU reread it... since anyone looking at this bug for the first time, going by your description, would DEFINITELY feel that the new throbber change fits every part of your initial request. You asked for a new one, not based on the Qute throbber. You have it. Again, best of luck.
Hi, I might well get shouted at for this, but I'm going to use some qa skills I got from Openoffice.org. (I do qa there). ;-) I'm going to look at the 'bigger picture'. This bug was opened on '2003-07-15 10:27 PDT', getting on to a year ago and nothing has yet been done about it. As we are now getting very close to 1.0 (the big release) something needs to be done about it. I recommend a 'temporary' resolution, so _something_ can be done about it as firefox still uses the very old phoenix qute throbber. I suggest that either we should make sure that comment #59 (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/djst/) IS going to be implemented by 0.9, Or if not then comment #65 possibly with comment #66 should be implemented. Can we only close this issue when either we know that a new throbber will be in 0.9 or when one IS in CVS and will appear in future builds. Just my 2c (hope I didn't offend)
> I recommend a 'temporary' resolution, so _something_ can be done about it as firefox still uses the very old phoenix qute throbber. Reading this line, I guess the reason of this misunderstanding is just that you don't know yet that the new throbber (and new icons) have been checked in this may/09 (they're already available in the daily builds). Today's build even incorporates a few more graphics that were missing yesterday: http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=75593 So, Firefox is already using the circular dots throbber from that screenshot. Hope everything is clear now :)
(In reply to comment #73) > What part of "its own" do you not understand? Internet apps have traditionally > had branded throbbers. Simply replacing one throbber with another does not > constitute fixing this bug. Replacing the (unexplained to most users) Q is only > half of the problem. On top of this, with this new throbber, there isn't a > large version. Do not try to reinterpret MY initial report: the issues have not > been resolved. Firefox does not have to follow the tradition of every other browser that's out there. If we did that, what would be the point? Having a branded throbber is by no means a requirement. We have *plenty* of branding elsewhere in the product. Personally I like the current throbber in CVS because of its simplicity and unobstrusiveness. (In reply to comment #75) > This bug was opened on '2003-07-15 10:27 PDT', getting on to a year ago and > nothing has yet been done about it. As we are now getting very close to 1.0 > (the big release) something needs to be done about it. > > I suggest that either we should make sure that comment #59 > (http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/djst/) IS going to be implemented by 0.9, > Or if not then comment #65 possibly with comment #66 should be implemented. I'm going to restate what I said earlier. This bug is not a blocker for 0.9, which is a feature driven release. It's certainly a blocker for 1.0, and Ben Goodger, the lead developer has indicated that it will be fixed by 1.0. Personally, I think that this bug is fixed with the checking in of the updated theme a day or two ago, and should be closed. However I'm not the owner/QA for this component so I'm not going to make that decision.
This was the only point I was trying to make. I agree that the new throbber needs a larger version, no question. But I don't feel the branding is important on that component as well. You already have the Firefox logo in your upper left corner as well as in the taskbar. Placing it in three spots that are always visible I would consider branding overkill. Also, the browser that almost all will be switching from(Internet Explorer) does NOT have application specific branding for its throbber. It hasn't used the IE logo as its throbber since IE4 if I remember right or at the latest IE5. IE6, where most would be migrating from, simply uses the Microsoft flag. I think the new CVS throbber will be much more tasteful and elegant than yet more branding. The opacity on mouseover idea wouldn't be too bad though. The main key here is that THIS BUG as it was originally opened should no longer block 1.0. Both stand-alone apps have matching non-Qute themed throbbers now. The 1.0 release shouldn't be held back for a opaque mouseover trick. Ideally, a new bug should be opened to continue the work towards improving the throbber if people desire, but at the very least, the blocker flag should be removed.
> Firefox does not have to follow the tradition of every other browser that's > out there. If we did that, what would be the point? Having a branded throbber > is by no means a requirement. We have *plenty* of branding elsewhere in the > product. Personally I like the current throbber in CVS because of its > simplicity and unobstrusiveness. And that's your opinion. If the owner/QA agrees with you then this bug will be closed by them on those grounds. The tradition of the branded throbber is what people expect, so people are going to assume that the dot-ring is now the new representation of the product, or be confused, just as they were with the Q. I also have a feeling that ring might be trademarked by somebody, so its best to keep it safe and use something already associated with Mozilla. > Also, the browser that almost all > will be switching from(Internet Explorer) does NOT have application specific > branding for its throbber. It hasn't used the IE logo as its throbber since > IE4 if I remember right or at the latest IE5. IE6, where most would be > migrating from, simply uses the Microsoft flag. Right, but it's still branding. That's why I suggested that the Mozilla "M" could be used as in the original report. In fact, to keep the Mozilla-as-a-platform-or-suite mindset, it would probably be better for all of the official Mozilla products to use the same throbber, but one that identifies it as a Mozilla product, just as IE/Outlook are identified as a Windows platform/product. > The 1.0 release shouldn't be held back for a opaque mouseover trick. Well I certainly hope that design isn't chosen as the answer to this bug. > Ideally, a > new bug should be opened to continue the work towards improving the throbber > if people desire, but at the very least, the blocker flag should be removed. Again, that's up to the owner/QA, but I don't see why a new bug must be opened with everybody having to go through the process of adding themselves (and votes, etc.) to that when the work/comments are in this bug. The current ring throbber was never presented in this bug, as a solution or otherwise.
Listen kids, Ben will deal with this. Go talk about it in the forums, which is what they're for. Bugzilla is not for debates or idle chat. Shoo.
This has been fixed with the new throbber from Arvid. If you want a large version of the throbber, then this is a new issue and should be filed as a new bug.
No longer blocks: 214123
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 21 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
(In reply to bug 227099 comment 0, by Ben Goodger) >Currently Firebird on Windows and Linux is using Arvid's Q bird, Mac is using a >generic mac spinner. We need a new, XP animation that links to our brand (app >icon). Ben Goodger seems to think (or at the very least once thought) we need some sort of throbber branding. This may or may not change anything with respect to this bug, but at the very least it's worth mentioning that the primary Firefox dev seems to think (or at the very least once thought) the throbber should relate to the brand. I *don't* want to start a discussion about this, but I do think it's something QA might not have known when this bug was resolved.
Hi guys, maybe I'm a bit late here and decision's already been made, but I want you to know that when I changed to Firefox and the "bird" throbber seemed no longer appropriate, I started working on a throbber on my own: http://www.stud.tu-ilmenau.de/~thla-in/devel/mozilla/firefox/throbber.html Maybe you like it, maybe you don't. But the least I expect is that Firefox uses the graphics files it's told to in the .css file which is AFAIS not the case at least for the navigator throbber (CMIIW). \V/ PointedEars
*** Bug 227099 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Flags: blocking-aviary1.0+
Is anything happening on this, or is the current throbber here to stay? I personally think that Firefox's great default theme is spoilt by a very boring throbber.
*** Bug 252301 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
QA Contact: bugzilla → toolbars
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