Bugzilla

(In reply to Hadmut Danisch from comment #0)

Hello Hadmut, I'm seeing that you're not happy with the contextual message actions...
It was something to get used to at the time, and I remember at the time I really felt like moving them back to top at first. But we've had them for a long time, don't recall more user complaints, and they're here to stay. In 68, you can still customize header toolbar to (re)move buttons, and also mail toolbar to add them there. Request to preserve/restore msg header toolbar customization is Bug 1556261. 

> Steps to reproduce:
> Just reading my INBOX and sorting my incoming mail, archiving mails by pressing the "Archive" button for some of them. 

Please use concise and numbered steps and tell us exactly what we need to press or click to reproduce your problem!
This report does not follow protocol, which makes it much harder to understand and act on.

> Thunderbird keeps reorganizing it's mail header view (the part of the window, where the selected message is displayed, the light blue part...
> with every single mail these buttons move up and down, left and right. 
> Up and down, because thunderbird sometimes shows warnings and hints like a message beeing suspect of scam or things like „This message contains a reply referring to an event that is not in your calendar.”, opening a strip on top of the message header window, thus moving the header part and the buttons up and down. 

Can you pls attach some screenshots to this bug? I think this should be considered: If calendar and encryption messages would be better off below the message header to keep the header in a stable position.

> Furthermore, it adds and removes buttons, depending on what you're showing (grouped/tree view), making buttons like the archive button move left and right.

- For navigating single selections/messages: Reply moves to the left to make space for Reply All, all other buttons stable.
Did changed their default position with customization?
You can try this: Right-click on msg header toolbar > Customize > "Restore Default Set".
With default layout, Archive and Delete never change location for single selections.
- When changing between single and multiple/thread selection, yes, toolbar layout changes.
Not sure if that is a problem for mouse users. The alternative, showing and disabling other buttons, also not ideal.
For maximum efficiency, use keyboard instead.

> Expected results:
> 
> This is highly annoying, error prone and slowing the user down, because for every single mail you need to look for the button and move the mouse pointer to it's new location. 

Maybe you should use keyboard shortcuts? A -> Archive. J = Junk. Fast and predictable. Your keys on keyboard won't change location! ;-)

> It's furthermore error prone if you believe to archive something, when the delete-button has move to the position where the archive button had been a second ago and is now under the mouse pointer. 

Only when changing btw single and multiple selections.

> Thunderbird had a great user interface at around 2008, then someone redesigned it and just made everything worse with no benefit at all. Just make things ugly, worse, more screen space consuming. 

Contextual UI is a big benefit, but personal preferences may differ. Please be respectful, in general we don't redesign without reason.
 
> E.g. the old UI allowed to select multiple mails and then click „Junk” for them all. The new one doesn't even show the Junk-Button when multiple mails are selected, thus forcing the user to waste his/her time to mark every single spam mail separately. 

That's an annyoing shortcoming indeed, bug 523252.
That said, have you tried adding JUNK button to the main toolbar via "Customize" from context menu? Works for several messages.

> Never ever move buttons, especially not destructive ones like „delete” on the screen around, forcing the user to search for them with every single mail. 

Again, why not use keyboard shortcut DEL key for deleting? Shift+Del for bypassing trash.

> If you really need to display buttons only sometimes, put them to the left, to allow permanent buttons to stay where they are. 

See above, probably your own customization which causes this.
You've also complained about wasting space - here we're saving space: From: shares horizontal space with msg header buttons.

> The user interface is just horrible, counterintuitive, annoying, and especially error prone, and no one has fixed it within a decade. 

Please tone down and be respectful. Let's focus on issues rather than emotions.
 
> Nobody seems to care about user friendly user interfaces.

We do care a lot about good UX, but making everybody happy is squaring the circles. UX principles are often conflicting, so it's always a trade-off. If we keep disabled buttons visible for you to achieve stable position (ux-consistency), we'll violate ux-minimalism by showing unneeded buttons. Other than that, sometimes it's manpower constraints, and sometimes between thousands of other issues, things can go off the radar. You're free to suggest and contribute code for improvements.

(In reply to Hadmut Danisch from comment #0)

Hello Hadmut, I'm seeing that you're not happy with the contextual message actions...
It was something to get used to at the time, and I remember I really felt like moving them back to top at first. But we've had them for a long time, don't recall more user complaints, and they're here to stay. In 68, you can still customize header toolbar to (re)move buttons, and also mail toolbar to add them there. Request to preserve/restore msg header toolbar customization is Bug 1556261. 

> Steps to reproduce:
> Just reading my INBOX and sorting my incoming mail, archiving mails by pressing the "Archive" button for some of them. 

Please use concise and numbered steps and tell us exactly what we need to press or click to reproduce your problem!
This report does not follow protocol, which makes it much harder to understand and act on.

> Thunderbird keeps reorganizing it's mail header view (the part of the window, where the selected message is displayed, the light blue part...
> with every single mail these buttons move up and down, left and right. 
> Up and down, because thunderbird sometimes shows warnings and hints like a message beeing suspect of scam or things like „This message contains a reply referring to an event that is not in your calendar.”, opening a strip on top of the message header window, thus moving the header part and the buttons up and down. 

Can you pls attach some screenshots to this bug? I think this should be considered: If calendar and encryption messages would be better off below the message header to keep the header in a stable position.

> Furthermore, it adds and removes buttons, depending on what you're showing (grouped/tree view), making buttons like the archive button move left and right.

- For navigating single selections/messages: Reply moves to the left to make space for Reply All, all other buttons stable.
Did changed their default position with customization?
You can try this: Right-click on msg header toolbar > Customize > "Restore Default Set".
With default layout, Archive and Delete never change location for single selections.
- When changing between single and multiple/thread selection, yes, toolbar layout changes.
Not sure if that is a problem for mouse users. The alternative, showing and disabling other buttons, also not ideal.
For maximum efficiency, use keyboard instead.

> Expected results:
> 
> This is highly annoying, error prone and slowing the user down, because for every single mail you need to look for the button and move the mouse pointer to it's new location. 

Maybe you should use keyboard shortcuts? A -> Archive. J = Junk. Fast and predictable. Your keys on keyboard won't change location! ;-)

> It's furthermore error prone if you believe to archive something, when the delete-button has move to the position where the archive button had been a second ago and is now under the mouse pointer. 

Only when changing btw single and multiple selections.

> Thunderbird had a great user interface at around 2008, then someone redesigned it and just made everything worse with no benefit at all. Just make things ugly, worse, more screen space consuming. 

Contextual UI is a big benefit, but personal preferences may differ. Please be respectful, in general we don't redesign without reason.
 
> E.g. the old UI allowed to select multiple mails and then click „Junk” for them all. The new one doesn't even show the Junk-Button when multiple mails are selected, thus forcing the user to waste his/her time to mark every single spam mail separately. 

That's an annyoing shortcoming indeed, bug 523252.
That said, have you tried adding JUNK button to the main toolbar via "Customize" from context menu? Works for several messages.

> Never ever move buttons, especially not destructive ones like „delete” on the screen around, forcing the user to search for them with every single mail. 

Again, why not use keyboard shortcut DEL key for deleting? Shift+Del for bypassing trash.

> If you really need to display buttons only sometimes, put them to the left, to allow permanent buttons to stay where they are. 

See above, probably your own customization which causes this.
You've also complained about wasting space - here we're saving space: From: shares horizontal space with msg header buttons.

> The user interface is just horrible, counterintuitive, annoying, and especially error prone, and no one has fixed it within a decade. 

Please tone down and be respectful. Let's focus on issues rather than emotions.
 
> Nobody seems to care about user friendly user interfaces.

We do care a lot about good UX, but making everybody happy is squaring the circles. UX principles are often conflicting, so it's always a trade-off. If we keep disabled buttons visible for you to achieve stable position (ux-consistency), we'll violate ux-minimalism by showing unneeded buttons. Other than that, sometimes it's manpower constraints, and sometimes between thousands of other issues, things can go off the radar. You're free to suggest and contribute code for improvements.

(In reply to Hadmut Danisch from comment #0)

Hello Hadmut, I'm seeing that you're not happy with the contextual message actions...
It was something to get used to at the time, and I remember I really felt like moving them back to top at first. But we've had them for a long time, don't recall more user complaints, and they're here to stay. In 68, you can still customize header toolbar to (re)move buttons, and also mail toolbar to add them there. Request to preserve/restore msg header toolbar customization is Bug 1556261. 

> Steps to reproduce:
> Just reading my INBOX and sorting my incoming mail, archiving mails by pressing the "Archive" button for some of them. 

Please use concise and numbered steps and tell us exactly what we need to press or click to reproduce your problem!
This report does not follow protocol, which makes it much harder to understand and act on.

> Thunderbird keeps reorganizing it's mail header view (the part of the window, where the selected message is displayed, the light blue part...
> with every single mail these buttons move up and down, left and right. 
> Up and down, because thunderbird sometimes shows warnings and hints like a message beeing suspect of scam or things like „This message contains a reply referring to an event that is not in your calendar.”, opening a strip on top of the message header window, thus moving the header part and the buttons up and down. 

Can you pls attach some screenshots to this bug? I think this should be considered: If calendar and encryption messages would be better off below the message header to keep the header in a stable position.

> Furthermore, it adds and removes buttons, depending on what you're showing (grouped/tree view), making buttons like the archive button move left and right.

- For navigating single selections/messages: Reply moves to the left to make space for Reply All, all other buttons stable.
Did you change their default position with customization?
You can try this: Right-click on msg header toolbar > Customize > "Restore Default Set".
With default layout, Archive and Delete never change location for single selections.
- When changing between single and multiple/thread selection, yes, toolbar layout changes.
Not sure if that is a problem for mouse users. The alternative, showing and disabling other buttons, also not ideal.
For maximum efficiency, use keyboard instead.

> Expected results:
> 
> This is highly annoying, error prone and slowing the user down, because for every single mail you need to look for the button and move the mouse pointer to it's new location. 

Maybe you should use keyboard shortcuts? A -> Archive. J = Junk. Fast and predictable. Your keys on keyboard won't change location! ;-)

> It's furthermore error prone if you believe to archive something, when the delete-button has move to the position where the archive button had been a second ago and is now under the mouse pointer. 

Only when changing btw single and multiple selections.

> Thunderbird had a great user interface at around 2008, then someone redesigned it and just made everything worse with no benefit at all. Just make things ugly, worse, more screen space consuming. 

Contextual UI is a big benefit, but personal preferences may differ. Please be respectful, in general we don't redesign without reason.
 
> E.g. the old UI allowed to select multiple mails and then click „Junk” for them all. The new one doesn't even show the Junk-Button when multiple mails are selected, thus forcing the user to waste his/her time to mark every single spam mail separately. 

That's an annyoing shortcoming indeed, bug 523252.
That said, have you tried adding JUNK button to the main toolbar via "Customize" from context menu? Works for several messages.

> Never ever move buttons, especially not destructive ones like „delete” on the screen around, forcing the user to search for them with every single mail. 

Again, why not use keyboard shortcut DEL key for deleting? Shift+Del for bypassing trash.

> If you really need to display buttons only sometimes, put them to the left, to allow permanent buttons to stay where they are. 

See above, probably your own customization which causes this.
You've also complained about wasting space - here we're saving space: From: shares horizontal space with msg header buttons.

> The user interface is just horrible, counterintuitive, annoying, and especially error prone, and no one has fixed it within a decade. 

Please tone down and be respectful. Let's focus on issues rather than emotions.
 
> Nobody seems to care about user friendly user interfaces.

We do care a lot about good UX, but making everybody happy is squaring the circles. UX principles are often conflicting, so it's always a trade-off. If we keep disabled buttons visible for you to achieve stable position (ux-consistency), we'll violate ux-minimalism by showing unneeded buttons. Other than that, sometimes it's manpower constraints, and sometimes between thousands of other issues, things can go off the radar. You're free to suggest and contribute code for improvements.