1249185 - Please let me not share tabs

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Hello (Loop) :: Client, defect)

Description

[Nicholas Nethercote [inactive]]

I've been very happily using Hello for 1-on-1 meetings several times a week. It's nicer than Vidyo -- both more convenient (I already have Firefox open) and the video/audio quality is typically higher. The "conversation" I use is one I created, so I enter the call via the Hello UI, and then the other parties join by visiting the conversation's UI.

But upon upgrading to 45(?) I found that tab sharing is always on now. This has made my Hello experience worse in several ways:

- I usually don't want to share tabs, so I deliberately open a new blank tab and stay on that. This is silly, but necessary. This prevents me from switching to other tabs unless I want to share them.

- Sharing tabs degrades the video/audio quality. Having a blank tab seems to be ok, but if I change to a non-blank tab the other person says it makes things much worse.

- The other person only sees a tiny window. Previously they were able to see me in a bigger window.

Please revert things to the previous, better experience!

Comment 1

[Romain Testard [:RT]]

Hello is now focussing on a value proposition allowing users to share websites simply.
Video calling is a different value proposition (purely comms) that is already well addressed by other solutions such as Vidyo, Skype or other WebRTC tools.
Essentially we want to focus on delivering the sharing use case well rather than try to address many different scenarios since user research revealed that this is an area where users want a solution.
Sorry if Hello in FF45 does not suit your needs, hopefully you'll find that Hello is great fit when wanting to browse websites with others!

Comment 2

[Nicholas Nethercote [inactive]]

(In reply to Romain Testard [:RT] from comment #1)
> Video calling is a different value proposition (purely comms) that is
> already well addressed by other solutions such as Vidyo, Skype or other
> WebRTC tools.

Skype and Vidyo are less convenient (start up a different program) and both require an account, unlike Hello.

I don't know of any other WebRTC tools.

> Essentially we want to focus on delivering the sharing use case well rather
> than try to address many different scenarios 

I'm not asking for "many" scenarios, just the simple and obvious scenario of audio+video, which also happens to be one that used to be supported.

> since user research revealed
> that this is an area where users want a solution.

Did the user research ask "would you like to be *able* to share tabs" or did it ask "would you like to be *forced* to share tabs"? If nothing else, consider this an answer of "no" to the latter question from one user.

It's sad that Hello *was* excellent for my main video calling use case, and now it's significantly less excellent.

Comment 3

[Romain Testard [:RT]]

(In reply to Nicholas Nethercote [:njn] from comment #2)
> (In reply to Romain Testard [:RT] from comment #1)
> > Video calling is a different value proposition (purely comms) that is
> > already well addressed by other solutions such as Vidyo, Skype or other
> > WebRTC tools.
> 
> Skype and Vidyo are less convenient (start up a different program) and both
> require an account, unlike Hello.
> 
> I don't know of any other WebRTC tools.
https://talky.io/
https://appear.in/ 
https://apprtc.appspot.com/ (seems opensource)
https://free.gotomeeting.com/
All the above are account-less and free
> 
> > Essentially we want to focus on delivering the sharing use case well rather
> > than try to address many different scenarios 
> 
> I'm not asking for "many" scenarios, just the simple and obvious scenario of
> audio+video, which also happens to be one that used to be supported.
> 
> > since user research revealed
> > that this is an area where users want a solution.
> 
> Did the user research ask "would you like to be *able* to share tabs" or did
> it ask "would you like to be *forced* to share tabs"? If nothing else,
> consider this an answer of "no" to the latter question from one user.
We are trying to optimize the UX for the sharing use case, which is the reason why people would be using Hello. Making a great and simple UX for sharing involves compromises on other scenarios. You can although pause sharing your tabs if you want only talking and no sharing.
> 
> It's sad that Hello *was* excellent for my main video calling use case, and
> now it's significantly less excellent.

Comment 4

[Nicholas Nethercote [inactive]]

> You can although pause
> sharing your tabs if you want only talking and no sharing.

How do I do that? I see the big red "stop" button in the bar at the top of the content window but when I click on that I leave the conversation.

Comment 5

[Romain Testard [:RT]]

In the next Beta 45 update you'll get a new "Pause sharing" button.
You can also use our Beta add-on (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/firefox-hello-beta/?src=api) to test this out now.

Comment 6

[Ian Bicking (:ianbicking)]

We missed the Beta 45 release of the Pause button, but we will be releasing that functionality hopefully in a live update to 45 after release.

For now we would like to strongly emphasize tab sharing as the core experience of Hello; we might revisit this (e.g., allow the Pause button to be sticky across sessions, which might accomplish what you are asking for), but we want to get the product in the market and see more reactions to make that decision.

Comment 7

[ssameer]

I am one of the users whom this change affects negatively, since I can no longer use Firefox Hello for simple video conferencing. This change in the purpose / value proposition of Firefox Hello, without a way to turn off the unwanted behaviour can alienate users. Users will hesitate to use new features, since we cannot trust the new features to be available after a few months. Please don't make current users change their habits.

Comment 8

[wyaltster]

I upgraded yesterday and fully agree with the original ticket here. Hello has been very useful for me for quick chats with coworkers, and screen sharing was previously easy when required. I haven't tested the Pause Sharing beta (and the addon linked above says it's not supported for FF 45), but in my opinion sharing should be opt-in rather than opt-out.

From what's written above I understand that I'm not the target user here, but this change makes it pointless for me to continue using Hello, which bums me out because I really liked it.

Comment 9

[Nicholas Nethercote [inactive]]

I've started using https://talky.io and I can recommend it. It works really well, has a good UI, has a symmetric experience for all users, and you can choose your own room name (which becomes part of the room URL). And it doesn't force you to share tabs, though you can if you want.

Comment 11

[ssivark007]

(In reply to Romain Testard [:RT] from comment #1)
> Hello is now focussing on a value proposition allowing users to share
> websites simply.
> Video calling is a different value proposition (purely comms) that is
> already well addressed by other solutions such as Vidyo, Skype or other
> WebRTC tools.

To be honest, Firefox Hello's user experience (before this change) was significantly superior to both Skype and Google Hangouts. Every user I've introduced Hello to to **loves it**! There are also other reasons why many OSS users are unhappy with Skype. I think there is a large potential audience for Firefox Hello here -- so there's no need to *handicap* this use case! After all, if this is set as the default, it shouldn't take more than one extra click to share a tab.

> Essentially we want to focus on delivering the sharing use case well rather
> than try to address many different scenarios since user research revealed
> that this is an area where users want a solution.

As Nicholas points out, this depends very crucially on how the questions were phrased. Would it be possible to look at the user study data? I would be glad to help with things such as this -- is there a way for me to pitch in, in the design phase?

> Sorry if Hello in FF45 does not suit your needs, hopefully you'll find that
> Hello is great fit when wanting to browse websites with others!

As someone who spends several hours a day online, (anecdotally) I have seldom felt a significant need to share websites and discuss things. There have been instances, but few and far between. I think that use case (as it currently stands in Firefox 45) is very focussed on a niche audience and pushes out everyone else. On the other hand, video chatting (with the option to share tabs, or a local window) is a very common and popular use case with a much larger target audience. 

---

I'm relieved to know that tab sharing can be disabled/paused in the next update. All I ask is that the UI modified to make tab sharing a possible option without forcing it or making it a default. Also, as Sameer pointed out, sudden changes like this destroy the user experience, and it would be nicer to have changes advertized with a transitional UI for at least one Firefox version (6 weeks) and let end users communicate their experience, before forcing through some "backward-incompatible" change.