152067 - Allow Mozilla to ignore Browser Specific Redirecting code.

Status: VERIFIED INVALID

(SeaMonkey :: Preferences, defect)

Description

[Alex Hosking]

As you know allot of sites block Mozilla (and other gecko based Browses) from
entering there site by redirecting Mozilla users using a browser redirecting
script. If there was a preference (off by default) that allowed Mozilla to
ignore Browser redirecting code this would solve this problem without Mozilla
having to identify itself as a different browser (like opera does).

Comment 1

[Matthias Versen [:Matti]]

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 46029 ***

Comment 2

[Alex Hosking]

You obviously didn read this properly this in NOT a dup of bug 46029
I dont want Mozilla to identify itsely as a different browser I want it to
identify its self as Mozilla and ignor the code that trys to redirect it.
Please change this.

Comment 3

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

how do you propose to ignore redirecting code?  Just ignore any attempts to set
document.location or something like that?  There are already security
preferences that will do that....

Comment 4

[Alex Hosking]

Imagine this you go to a site the (say SunTrust) you go there in Mozilla.
Mozilla identify its self as Mozilla and the browser sniffing code attempts to
redirect you to another page but Mozilla says NO i'm staying right here.
I don’t know if this can be done it I don’t know much about XUL but it doesn’t
sound that hard it could work the same way as the popup stopper.
I think reviewers would like it I’d see it as a fight back because it would
really get on the web designers nerves but they deserve it for trying to block
Mozilla in the first place.

Comment 5

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

> the browser sniffing code attempts to redirect you

There is no way to tell that browser-sniffing code is trying to redirect you. 
All you can tell is that you are being redirected.  Whether it's done by code
that browser-sniffs or not is basically impossible to determine...

Blocking all redirects is doable, though nontrivial (there are lots of ways
redirects can be done).  I'm not sure that's what you want, however -- redirects
are _very_ widely used and blocking them completely would make browsing pretty
painful.

Comment 6

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

what Boris said.

Comment 7

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

Ben, did you really mean to reopen?  ;)

Comment 8

[Alex Hosking]

Attachment: What Mozilla should be able to ignor.

Ide like Mozilla to be able to ignor JavaScript files like this
This script file is from SunTrust

Comment 9

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Yes. Alex is right in that it's not a dup. Feel free to wontfix it or whatever.

Comment 10

[Eric Vaandering (no email)]

I agree this should be marked WONTFIX. In fact, I'm doing it. Someone else can
re-open if they agree. Redirects are used for a large number of other reasons
and shutting them off will make browsing useless. I can think of two classes of
people who might do what the reporter suggests:

1) Newbies who will break their entire browsing experience and blame mozilla
2) Experts who realize what the problem is and will be better served by an easy
way to spoof the browser detection.

Comment 11

[Daniel Veditz [:dveditz]]

You can use the capabilities prefs to block script access to window.location --
why should any page be able to replace itself using script? Not sure what
legitimate sites this would break, though.

Comment 12

[Alex Hosking]

"1) Newbies who will break their entire browsing experience and blame 
mozilla"
What if its a preference off by defalt that makes sence.

"Not sure what legitimate sites this would break"
Have it off and when a site redirects you beause it trys to block Mozilla switch
ot on and retern to that site.

If somone higher up in Mozilla changes this to wontfix ill leave it.

Comment 13

[Sören 'Chucker' Kuklau (gone)]

This is way too difficult to accomplish.

Comment 14

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

This is far too obscure for a pref UI. How would you word it? "Ignore dumbass
sites which chose to not support your browser and rather send you away"? It is
hard to impossible to detect why the site redirects. Additionally, there are
lots of way to redirect.

Disabling HTTP redirction might be an option to argue for, but probably as
backend pref. As dveditz said, you can already block sites from messing with
window.location.

I don't think that disabling redirection completely is very useful in general.
Many sites require it. For example, I publish URLs like
<http://www.beonex.com/communicator> for forwards-compatibility (in case I
switch to Zope or something). This is currently a directory, so Apache sends a
"moved permanently" (302?) to redirect to <http://www.beonex.com/communicator/>.
If you disable that as well, my sites will break completely and will be a hassle
to use.

So, reporter, what exactly to you suggest to be done here? What specific
features should be disabled in which cases? If you want a UI pref, how should it
be called?

Personally, I don't think that this bug, as stated, can be fixed ina viable way.

Comment 15

[Hixie (not reading bugmail)]

INVALID.

There is no viable RFE described above, merely a blue sky suggestion.

Please only reopen this once an implementable algorithm has been described.

Comment 16

[Alex Hosking]

I don’t want Mozilla to ignore all redirection, what I want it to do is to
ignore code that ONLY redirects Mozilla and only works when you have it on. SO a
legitimate site directing you for a legitimate reason won't redirect you if a
site redirects you because it doesn’t let Mozilla in switch it on.

Comment 17

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

Alex, there is no way I can see to distinguish "legitimate" from "illegitimate"
redirects.  If you have such a way, please enlighten us.  Until then, this is
invalid.

Comment 18

[Alex Hosking]

Oh boy!!
Legitimate = Site thaat redirects you a page optermized fot Gecko
Ilegitimate = Site thaat redirects you a page Teling you to use a different browser

Comment 19

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

How does one distinguish those two pages?  There is simply no way to do it (_I_
could not do it, much less a web browser).

Comment 20

[Alex Hosking]

"How does one distinguish those two pages?  There is simply no way to do it (_I_
could not do it, much less a web browser)".
Im not asking for Mozilla to distinguish between the the two that is the users
job the ignor feture is off by defalt then if a page redirects you or blocks you
from visiting there site then you switch this feture on and go back And Mozilla
1. Identifies itself as Mozilla
2. the web site tryies to redirect it
3 Mozilla says no Im staying right here.

Comment 21

[Sören 'Chucker' Kuklau (gone)]

Within the understandable part of the post, I can't find any kind of explanation
of *how* to detect that a web page wants to redirect Mozilla for "an evil reason".

I'm a web author myself and due to the evilness of IE & Co. when it comes to
rendering so-called standards compliant code (hints: box model, PNG alpha
channel, CSS evilness, ...), I'm forced to try and "detect" the browser using
the UA string. I do not redirect though; I just return the [X]HTML that seems to
suit the client UA best. Your code might make my page display the code for IE or
for <that other browser that doesn't care much about standards>, and that would
be clearly contra-productive.

So, let me ask you again: How would you distinguish between "evil" redirection,
detection, or whatever, and "good" one? It's impossible, I'm afraid.

Comment 22

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

I think what alex is asking for is a "disable redirects" goggle that will
temporarily disable redirection.

That could maybe be implementable if someone comes up with a plausible list of
things that qualify as "redirection" per this definition and comes up with a
reasonable way of preventing said redirection.

The major problem with this approach is that many sites redirect _everything_;
all that changes based on browser is _where_ they redirect to.

Comment 23

[i_will_not_comply]

Perhaps after 19 years this is worth a fresh look.
For the large part a combination of Umatirx and Ublock origin can get around most pests by blocking domains/elements etc.
Unfortunately (at least with my limited understanding) various redirects fire at a deeper layer before plugins are loaded.
What we really need is to be able to add various evil redirects like: https://consent.youtube.com and https://consent.google.com
To a domain/subdomain blacklist inside about:config where the 302 etc, will promptly be ignored and proceed to https://youtube.com regardless of what the javascript instructs it to do otherwise.