1554421 - "Page actions" ellipsis shouldn't be in tab order

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Firefox :: Toolbars and Customization, defect)

Description

[Eyal Rozenberg]

Up until version 67, when you pressed Tab on the address bar, you got to the search bar. But now, you have to go through this annoying page-actions-ellipsis. That shouldn't be the case. The ellipsis should either be out of the tab order completely or at least not between the address bar and the search bar. This way is inconvenient.

Comment 1

[Drew Willcoxon :adw]

I think I remember seeing another bug about this...

Comment 2

[:Gijs (he/him)]

There's a shortcut to go directly to the search bar (ctrl-K on Windows, apple/cmd-K on mac).

I don't think there's much we can do about this unless we want to stop caring about making this menu keyboard-accessible, which I don't think we do (ie, I expect this bug should be wontfixed). Jamie?

Comment 3

[Eyal Rozenberg]

There's a shortcut to go directly to the search bar

I don't need to memorize a shortcut to get from the address bar to the next bar near it - the search bar. Tab does that. ... except it's broken.

I don't think there's much we can do about this unless we want to stop caring about making this menu keyboard-accessible

That's a false dichotomy. You can:

1. Change the tab order so that the ellipsis comes after the search bar.
2. Create a shortcut for accessing the ellipsis and remove it from the tab order.
3. Have the address bar notice some other typing pattern to get to the ellipsis menu, e.g. a long rightwards keypress.

Comment 4

[:Gijs (he/him)]

(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #3)

I don't think there's much we can do about this unless we want to stop caring about making this menu keyboard-accessible

That's a false dichotomy.

It's not, it's me being too terse when I'm trying to triage a bunch of bugs while trying to also get to my actual engineering work for the day. Specifically, "unless we want to stop having this item in its natural place in the tab order to keep it easily keyboard-accessible" would have been more accurate.

You can:

1. Change the tab order so that the ellipsis comes after the search bar.
2. Create a shortcut for accessing the ellipsis and remove it from the tab order.
3. Have the address bar notice some other typing pattern to get to the ellipsis menu, e.g. a long rightwards keypress.

None of these options do what I meant. The shortcut would not be discoverable (plus, we've pretty much run out of single-modifier shortcuts, never mind one that makes sense), changing the tab order would make the combination of arrow/tab keys and how they work even less intuitive, and messing with arrow keys inside text inputs is something we try hard to avoid (cf. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1477673#c9 ).

Ultimately, what's happening here is there are multiple items that can be reached via [tab], they are tabbed through in the right order, and you want the order to not include this item because you don't care about it. That's understandable, and perhaps in the future we'll do more work to make it possible to remove the item entirely (cf. bug 1407972) but adding hackarounds in the short term just for tab order benefits for people who don't want that particular item seems like a bad cost/benefits trade-off.

Comment 5

[Eyal Rozenberg]

None of these options do what I meant. The shortcut would not be discoverable

By "discoverable" I take it you mean by tab-cycling through elements? In that case, the page actions would be discoverable with option 1.

changing the tab order would make the combination of arrow/tab keys and how they work even less intuitive

For mouse-using users, and AFAICT - the tab key is used for two things:

1. Moving from the address bar to the search bar without having to move your mouse
2. After a bunch of tab-clicks, cycling through page elements when you don't want your mouse movements to affect things

so for most users about the only thing that matters (and is not page-specific) is whether the address bar is right before the search bar. Afterwards it annoyingly going through the search engines, tap-tap-tap, who cares about the exact order.

I realize that for non-mouse users, things are different. But if the tab order is already unintuitive; so what's another element of non-intuitivity in the mix? It's not like these users get to the star icon, or the pocket icon, or the magnifying-glass... or even the drop-down list key in the address bar.

Comment 6

[James Teh [:Jamie]]

(In reply to :Gijs (he/him) from comment #2)

I don't think there's much we can do about this unless we want to stop caring about making this menu keyboard-accessible, which I don't think we do (ie, I expect this bug should be wontfixed). Jamie?

I think this should be wontfixed.

(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #3)

I don't need to memorize a shortcut to get from the address bar to the next bar near it - the search bar. Tab does that. ... except it's broken.

Tab moves to the next focusable control (unless you're in a group of buttons already, in which case you might use the arrow keys to navigate that group). The function of tab is not defined as "move to the next bar-like thing". Thus, it isn't broken; the fact that you couldn't reach this before was "broken".

On one hand, you're arguing that having to press tab twice is inefficient. On the other, you're arguing that you're not willing to memorise a shortcut key which would take you to exactly the control you want (and would thus be even more efficient than your previous solution). Those arguments seem contradictory to me.

(In reply to Eyal Rozenberg from comment #5)

By "discoverable" I take it you mean by tab-cycling through elements? In that case, the page actions would be discoverable with option 1.

Yes, but that would make the tab order unintuitive/inconsistent in the sense that it would jump from the address bar to the search bar and then back to the controls inside the address bar.

For mouse-using users, and AFAICT - the tab key is used for two things:

1. Moving from the address bar to the search bar without having to move your mouse

If you really want the search bar via the keyboard, that's precisely why we have the specific shortcut.

I realize that for non-mouse users, things are different. But if the tab order is already unintuitive; so what's another element of non-intuitivity in the mix?

I'd argue it is now reasonably intuitive for keyboard users (as intuitive as we can get, anyway). The fact that arrow keys navigate toolbar buttons is perhaps not immediately obvious to less experienced keyboard users, but once understood, it is logical and consistent.

It's not like these users get to the star icon, or the pocket icon, or the magnifying-glass...

On the contrary, tabbing to the page actions button and then using the right arrow key allows you to get to those controls. (Right/left arrows move through a group of buttons on a toolbar.)

For now at least, you can disable toolbar keyboard navigation altogether by going to about:config and setting browser.toolbars.keyboard_navigation to false. That will restore things to the way they were.

Comment 7

[:Gijs (he/him)]

OK, considering Jamie and I agree, gonna mark wontfix. We've already struck a balance between having every button be tab-stopped and having none of them be keyboard-usable by using the group/arrow key work, and I don't think there are solutions to the problem as filed that have positive trade-offs.