1663174 - [a11y] Geolocation popup is hard to access through keyboard without knowing the key shortcuts by heart

Status: RESOLVED INACTIVE

(Toolkit Graveyard :: Notifications and Alerts, defect)

Description

[Julie]

Attachment: geolocation-popup.PNG

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:81.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/81.0

Steps to reproduce:

If you go on a website that demand if you want to activate geolocation, a popup is displayed in the browser next to the address bar.

Actual results:

By using a screen reader, it will read the popup content. But, the focus is not on or inside the popup so, if you tabulate, you continue the navigation into the website. And, it's very hard to find how to access to that popup (this point would need another ticket ;-)).

So, as the popup doesn't get focus after opening, it makes it really really hard (it can be impossible according to the knowledge of the user) to activate or refuse geolocation.

Expected results:

The focus should be moved inside the geolocation popup when it's opening.

(Note for information: this behaviour is OK in Google Chrome)

Comment 1

[Virginia (please send need info request to Brindusa Tot)]

Hi Julie,

Thanks for reporting this to us.

I was able to reproduce the behavior reported. I went to https://www.sncf.com/fr, selected Lieu de départ checkbox and clicked on "Ma position".
The popup displayed but in order to reach it with TAB key I had to press it several times, plus then using a combination of arrows and Enter Key in order to authorize or not.
I understand this can be very inconvenient and it would be worth considering to adjust it to make it a11y friendly.

Dev team:
I may suggest Severity 2 for this bug. Also, feel free to change this defect to an enhancement if it's more appropriate.

Tested on Windows 10 using:
80.0.1 (64-bit)
81.0b7 (64-bit)
82.0a1 (2020-09-08) (64-bit)

Regards,
Virginia

Comment 2

[James Teh [:Jamie]]

The decision not to focus the popup is deliberate. The popup is not meant to intrude on the user's task. Focusing it would mean the user would need to actively dismiss it if not interested. A mouse user does not need to do this, so we wanted a similar experience for keyboard users.

You can focus the popup with f6, which is a standard keyboard command to move between panels. Alternatively, you can use the underlined accelerators (e.g. alt+a to allow) to activate the buttons without focusing it. Note that when a screen reader reads the popup, it reads these accelerators, so a screen reader user is made aware of this possibility as well.

Comment 3

[Julie]

Hi,

Thank you for your answer.

I think the ticket has been closed a little bit quickly. I didn't even have time to provide more information about the problem I encounter. So I'm going to do it now in the hope that it will be taken seriously and that the ticket will be reopened to think about it a bit more. The problem is not resolved for me.

I understand the decision not to focus the popup because a lot of websites force the request for geolocation without users having taken any action to display the request. But there are also websites like sncf.com or https://www.alexandermcqueen.com/en-gb/storelocator that send the request only when users have clicked on an explicit button.

My mistake was to tell that the popup should receive focus. I should have stayed focused on the problem and not on the solution. I'm sorry about that.

You told me that I can focus the popup with F6. Even if it's a standard keyboard command, only power users know it or how to find it and all disabled people are not power users. Moreover, if I press F6, the address bar is getting focus, not the popup. So then, I need to make: MAJ+TAB, then Right arrow, and Right arrow again and finally Space. This is complicated! And I can guess how to do because I see the screen but, for blind users, they can't guess how many buttons there are and that they need to use the Right arrow after MAJ+TAB.
So… after writing this piece of text, I discover by accident that I can go inside the popup by pressing F6 again.

And, yes, the screen reader is reading the popup and announcing how to activate or refuse the geolocation but what about people only using keyboard without a screen reader? Do they have to guess the key shortcut?

I think that the access to the popup can be improved (for example, the double F6 shortcut could be written inside the popup). Don't you think?

Comment 4

[Marco Zehe (:MarcoZ)]

(In reply to Julie from comment #3)

And, yes, the screen reader is reading the popup and announcing how to activate or refuse the geolocation but what about people only using keyboard without a screen reader? Do they have to guess the key shortcut?

The buttons should have an underline under the letter to activate it. Much like classic Windows menus used to have it so you could press Alt+F for File, for example. Keyboard users usually know that they should press alt plus the underlined letter to focus that button and execute it.

I think that the access to the popup can be improved (for example, the double F6 shortcut could be written inside the popup). Don't you think?

Yes, we can consider that. Microsoft Edge and Chrome do that, each in their own way, by providing instructions like "Press F6 until you hear 'Downloads bar' to access the downloaded file". I think this text is not shown visually, only spoken by screen readers. Maybe we could adopt a similar approach, since we now also have the means to provide AT-only text. Jamie, thoughts?

Comment 5

[James Teh [:Jamie]]

(In reply to Julie from comment #3)

You told me that I can focus the popup with F6. Even if it's a standard keyboard command, only power users know it or how to find it and all disabled people are not power users.

That's fair to some extent. However, if you're primarily a keyboard user, it also follows that you know (or are willing to learn) keyboard commands to allow for efficient navigation using the keyboard. Please note that f6 is not a keystroke we invented. It is a well established convention, albeit less well known than, say, pressing tab.

Moreover, if I press F6, the address bar is getting focus, not the popup.

My apologies. You may need to press f6 twice, as you discovered. Think of f6 like tab, but for panels (major pieces of the user interface). So, f6 will cycle between the document, the toolbar (address bar, etc.) and any open pop-ups (such as the geolocation pop-up).

I think that the access to the popup can be improved (for example, the double F6 shortcut could be written inside the popup). Don't you think?

We could potentially provide this instruction for screen reader users, but it's problematic for sighted users because it would mean non-keyboard users would also be provided with this instruction, potentially confusing them or cluttering their UI. It's a tricky balance: we want to ensure one group of users has the best access possible, while at the same time, we want to avoid confusing other users with information that isn't useful or meaningful to them. We can get around this in cases where it's clear that the user initiated some action via the keyboard; e.g. we show visual focus indicators and accelerators (underlined letters indicating alt+letter activates something) if a dialog was brought up with the keyboard. Unfortunately, in the case we're discussing here, there's no direct correlation between keyboard usage and the geolocation pop-up appearing.

All of that said, I notice that this isn't clearly explained in the Firefox Keyboard Shortcuts help (available via Firefox menu -> Help -> Keyboard Shortcuts). Is this a place you already looked and didn't find information about this?

Comment 6

[Julie]

Thank you so much for your answers, Marco and James.

Yes, I went on the Keyboard Shortcuts page but didn't find the information. I don't even know if it's officially called a "pop-up" or not but it seems that there is nothing about this kind of component in the page. There is the F6 shortcut information to focus the address bar or to "move to next frame" (I think it's about frames inside a web page, here), but not clearly for the pop-ups, as you were saying.

So, after reading all your explanations, I think it would be great to add, at least, this information inside this page.

Comment 7

[Yura Zenevich [:yzen] (please use "needinfo")]

I updated the Support page and expanded Frames to Frames, Pop-ups and Door Hangers. Hope that helps a bit..

Comment 8

[Julie]

Hi,

I’m not able to see a modification of the keyboard shortcuts page in French (https://support.mozilla.org/fr/kb/raccourcis-clavier) about the double F6 shortcut to access a browser popup such as the geolocation one. Is it normal?

I would like to come back on the subject because a few weeks ago, I read an article from a French blind woman about video conferences. And, about the webcam and the microphone consent popup, she tells (translation from French):

Connecting to the conference is not always easy, especially when you connect using the browser. First you have to authorize the microphone and camera.
This authorization is easily found in Google Chrome, for example, but under Firefox, the authorization dialog is not always easy to find. This difficulty is encountered on all video conferencing tools for which Firefox requires authorization.
It is usually accessed by pressing the F6 key and then using the tab key. All you have to do is to tick "authorize the microphone" and "authorize the camera", and then indicate that these choices must be memorized so that you don't have to repeat the operation.
Failure to do so may result in not being able to be heard or seen during the meeting.

So as you can see, there is actually a problem with accessing to these popup windows. This is not intuitive at all and this should be reconsidered. Don't you think?