222205 - new site should use user default font size...

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(www.mozilla.org :: General, defect, P1)

Description

[chris hofmann]

if user has set default font to larger size the new site design appears smaller,
and maybe too small to read...

Comment 1

[David Baron :dbaron: (⌚️UTC-5, no longer working on Mozilla)]

Attachment: proposed patch

I'm testing this now...

Comment 2

[Dave Shea]

Fonts are currently set to relative sizing. If we move to absolute (that is,
hard-coded pixel values) we lose font scalability in IE. Relative IS already
based on user default - font size of small is one step down from default, which
is medium. Medium renders at 16px across most browsers, and that's just too
large for 90% of the population, especially when rendered in Verdana.

Not only that, but a) fonts are completely scalable in all browsers so the user
can adjust if necessary, and b) an alternative style sheet has been provided
with larger fonts anyway.

Please trust me when I say I've absolutely bent over backwards to ensure that
font size issues have been dealt with as best as can be done, while balancing
good design and practicality.

Comment 3

[David Baron :dbaron: (⌚️UTC-5, no longer working on Mozilla)]

What's wrong with using the user's default font size?  That you don't like the
default font size in your browser because you're young, have good vision, and
don't have a high resolution monitor?

Comment 4

[David Baron :dbaron: (⌚️UTC-5, no longer working on Mozilla)]

Note that there was no proposal to use absolute sizing.  The proposal is to use
100% of the user's preferred font size rather than 80% or 86% or whatever the
difference between medium and small is these days.

Comment 5

[chris hofmann]

are the problems that kerz sees in 
http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=222151
related to this bug?


------- Additional Comment #10 From Jason Kersey  2003-10-14 23:06 -------

<kerz> ./press/mozilla1.0.html is pretty small
<kerz> same with ./press/open-source-security.html


------- Additional Comment #11 From Jason Kersey 2003-10-14 23:08 -------

/tinderbox.html - seems like there is a general problem with nested lists
getting smaller and smaller.


------- Additional Comment #12 From Jason Kersey 2003-10-14 23:13 -------

Old page, I know, but it shows a problem with TT tags being really small. 
Search for nsbeta3 to see it.

/roadmap/roadmap-25-Sep-2000.html

Comment 6

[Dave Shea]

There are problems with nesting, we'll need a seperate bug for those. (This is
my first time seeing all those pages)

Comment 7

[Dave Shea]

That is, a bug that I have access to, since I'm denied permission to view 222151

Comment 8

[David Baron :dbaron: (⌚️UTC-5, no longer working on Mozilla)]

Using small does cause font size quirks like the one in
http://mozilla.org/thisisonlyatest/quality/ near the bottom.

Comment 9

[David Baron :dbaron: (⌚️UTC-5, no longer working on Mozilla)]

An alternative possibility (given that we're using Verdana, which has issues for
users who don't have it, since they'll end up with a font that's not as large)
is to use 'font-size: 90%'.  This avoids the need for 'small' vs. 'x-small'
hacks, and isn't quite as small.

I'm not sure how much I like this, though...

Comment 10

[Dawn Endico]

reassign to dbaron

Comment 11

[Henri Sivonen (:hsivonen)]

The obvious solution is not to use Verdana. It's not like you *have to* use
Verdana. (IMO, 10px Verdana is a cliché.) There are other alternatives such as
leaving the font unspecified, using generic sans-serif, using Futura/Trebuchet etc.

Also, I think the most important thing is that the inner pages on the site that
contain prose that people actually should be able to read are displayed at the
user's preferred size. That is, if the front page design is not flexible enough
for any size (though preferably it should be) that doesn't mean all the pages
have to use the same size as the front page.

Other than the font size, I think the new design is immensely better than the
old one from 1998.

Comment 12

[David Baron :dbaron: (⌚️UTC-5, no longer working on Mozilla)]

I did the following:
 * default.css uses 90% for:
   + all of the new pages
   + the header, sidebar, and footer of the wrapped pages
   and 100% fo the content of wrapped pages.  It's still using Verdana.
 * largefonts.css is analogous, although I'm not sure if we really want
largefonts.css anymore.