Status

mozilla.org Graveyard
Server Operations
RESOLVED FIXED
11 years ago
3 years ago

People

(Reporter: gerv, Assigned: justdave)

Tracking

Details

(Whiteboard: holding for completion of stage migration project)

The Bugzilla team would like to unify these two mailing lists. Ideally, both submission addresses would still work, but there would be just one mailing list. 

Myk summarised the situation as follows:

"I wrote a message on 2006/04/24 asking about the status of hooking up the list to the newsgroup, which we'd previously decided we should do.

Dave responded with two options for doing it (forwarding or gatewaying), of which he seemed to prefer forwarding because it's easier to do.

Max then agreed with Dave that we should do forwarding, despite not wanting to switch from developers@bugzilla.org to dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org (although it's not clear that forwarding actually requires this).

And Frédéric then seconded Max's preference for developers@mozilla.org.

And that's where we left it."

So let's forward.

Gerv
Assignee: server-ops → justdave
OK, status update on this:

I haven't touched it in about 2 weeks because I've been busy with other projects, but as of two weeks ago, I successfully tested inter-list gatewaying between the bugzilla.org majordomo installation and the lists.mozilla.org Mailman installation.  We now know what the correct set of rulesets is to get in place on both sides in order to cross-post all messages from both lists to both lists automatically, so that both lists can continue to exist and people can use whichever one they feel more comfortable with.

Majordomo has the capability of whitelisting any post coming from a particular IP address.  It also has effective duplicate screening.  So any post originating from the lists.mozilla.org server is automatically approved, unless it's been seen already, then it's discarded.

Mailman, unfortunately, doesn't have this whitelist-by-IP capability (but does have good protection against messages it's already seen).  However, we already have a local hack in place on our Mailman installation to allow any subscriber to any list on lists.mozilla.org post to any of the lists (to allow cross-posting by mail to newsgroups to which you aren't subscribed to work if you Reply-To-All for example).  It should be possible to make this work on Mailman by having the Mailman server pull the list of subscribers to the developers list off bugzilla.org's Majordomo periodically and include them in that subscriber whitelist.

Of all the options we've had so far, this seems like the least-painful thing to do, and even if we decide to physically eliminate one of the lists at some point, this will at least make a good transition method.

With the current list of projects on my plate this is likely about a week or two off before I have time to mess with it again.
Whiteboard: holding for completion of stage migration project
Seems to me we'd be better off biting the bullet and choosing a single list, even if we don't make everybody happy with it, than maintaining two lists (and associated interconnections) in perpetuity just to try to make everyone happy.
It's more to keep me happy than everyone...  the cross-list gateway is actually less hassle on the admin side than attempting to merge the subscriber lists.  And this doesn't preclude eventually merging them; as I said it makes a good transition period before cutting off one of them.

personally, developers@bugzilla.org is a lot easier to type than dev-apps-bugzilla@lists.mozilla.org.  But it's hard to pass up the chance to have it gatewayed to the newsgroup.  Maybe there's some way we can hack it so that the developers@bugzilla.org is the only list and it gateways to said newsgroup on its own.

Comment 4

11 years ago
Since you control the master news server for that newsgroup, is it possible to "import" the entire archive of the developers@ history there? It's way easier to search a Google Group than it is to search majordomo or mailman histories.
(In reply to comment #4)
> Since you control the master news server for that newsgroup, is it possible to
> "import" the entire archive of the developers@ history there? It's way easier
> to search a Google Group than it is to search majordomo or mailman histories.

No, because we don't actually control it.  We've actually tried this in the past with another group, and they wouldn't do it.  Both Giganews and Google had provisions in place that ignore posts that are dated more than a week in the past assuming that they're the result of broken servers, so we can't just inject them either.
This is up and running.  Couple minor issues, but we'll work those out as we go.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: 11 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED

Comment 7

11 years ago
One reason I'm clearly opposed to move everything to the newsgroup is that a newsgroup doesn't give you "full power" about emails you get. With developers@, I can immediately delete those I don't want to keep and tag or move interesting ones elsewhere. In a newsgroup, all messages are kept, unless you ask your email client to automatically clear those older than X days or not being among the last Y messages. But this means that uninteresting messages are kept till the threshold above is reached, and then even those you tagged as "important" are deleted. So you must not forget to copy them (and tag them later) instead of simply tag them and leave them where they are.
Also, when installing your email client on a new distro or PC, I'm not sure already read messages are remembered in newsgroup, while I have no doubt about this with a email account.
This is why there's a mail<->news gateway.  If that's how you prefer it, just subscribe to the mailing list version.
Product: mozilla.org → mozilla.org Graveyard
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