404681 - Respond to user feedback concerning the Today-pane location switch

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Calendar :: Lightning Only, defect)

Description

[Joey Minta]

I realize I've developed a bit of a nay-sayer reputation, so I may not be the best person to file this bug. Nonetheless...

In perusing the various comment-forums for Lightning 0.7 feedback, I noticed a remarkably high number of negative comments about the decision to move the Today-pane to the right hand side of the window.  (See below)  Given that the stated purpose of the UI changes was in large part to gain user feedback, it would seem appropriate for these to be addressed in some format.

Requesting blocking0.8 since a majority of comments indicate this is a "regression" in the sense that it is motivating them to revert to version 0.5.

Filing as UNCO since I don't make these decisions.

A quick sampling of comments:
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/discussions/comments.php?DiscussionID=5453&page=1 (approximately 15 negative comments)
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/thunderbird/reviews/display/2313 (approximately 8 negative comments)

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=588988 (approximately 5 negative comments)

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=597673
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=596825
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=596844
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=596479

http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.calendar/browse_frm/thread/549ae801ce821b7b
http://groups.google.com/group/mozilla.support.calendar/browse_frm/thread/0e0b7c99aa86d94e

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar/2007/10/lightning_07_sunbird_07_have_b.html#comment-1887311
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar/2007/10/lightning_07_sunbird_07_have_b.html#comment-1893335
http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/calendar/2007/10/lightning_07_sunbird_07_have_b.html#comment-1918119

Comment 1

[Gary Kwong [:gkw] [:nth10sd] (NOT official MoCo now)]

I have one more:

http://weblogs.mozillazine.org/rumblingedge/archives/2007/07/sb_0-7.html#comments

I think this was mentioned sometime ago in the aftermath of Lightning 0.7 release. Oh well, there's still time to do something (if anything at all) before 1.0.

Comment 2

[Christian Jansen]

Thanks for the huge collection of links, Joey.
I've noticed the feedback in some forums and on AMO. I'll take a look at the comments, summarize them. Based on that I'll file a bunch of new bugs for getting the major pain points addressed (on the way to 1.0).

Comment 3

[Joey Minta]

(In reply to comment #2)
While I fully support the idea of collecting and summarizing the feedback from the past release, I want to be clear that this bug had a much narrower topic.  This bug was only intended to be about the feedback for the decision to move the today pane, because that was the most common comment I noticed.  The links I listed are *not* general links to feedback, but rather all related to the specific decision to move the today-pane (with the exception of the AMO reviews page, which doesn't allow links to specific comments).

Summarizing that feedback is fairly simple: Users feel the new layout is an inefficient use of vertical space.  These are users who either don't have many folders, or don't mind having to scroll to view their folders.  As a result, the bottom left of the screen is less valuable real-estate for them than the right-hand side.

Similarly, the blocking comment was intended to apply to this specific issue, since that's the only issue (other than the "lost" data due to unchecked calendars) that I've seen users willing to revert to 0.5 for.  While general UI iteration should certainly be "on the way to 1.0," this seemed more urgent, since it's keeping users on old versions.

Comment 4

[Christian Jansen]

(In reply to comment #3)
> (In reply to comment #2)

[...]
> Summarizing that feedback is fairly simple: Users feel the new layout is an
> inefficient use of vertical space. 

And how many are these, compared to the ones who are lucky with the change, but do not state this in any forum, blog or what ever medium?

> folders, or don't mind having to scroll to view their folders.  As a result,
> the bottom left of the screen is less valuable real-estate for them than the
> right-hand side.

Do you have numbers for that or is this an assumption?

Please keep in mind that the current implementation of the today pane is not final. I promise that we'll add some customization features, but we'll focus on more severe usability issues and on important but incomplete features, first.

See http://wiki.mozilla.org/Calendar:Status_Meetings:2007-11-21

Comment 5

[Joey Minta]

(In reply to comment #4)
> And how many are these, compared to the ones who are lucky with the change, but
> do not state this in any forum, blog or what ever medium?
I filed this bug as UNCO precisely because I don't know these numbers.

> Do you have numbers for that or is this an assumption?
Neither.  This is a summary of these users' arguments.  It is not a statement that they are correct.  If you prefer, imagine every sentence in my 2nd paragraph begins with "For these users..."  It may be that, because of data I don't have or for other reasons, the response to these users is "Sorry, we're targeting more power users, Lightning isn't for you."  That's fine, it just seemed like the kind of decision that should be made explicit.

> 
> Please keep in mind that the current implementation of the today pane is not
> final. I promise that we'll add some customization features, but we'll focus on
> more severe usability issues and on important but incomplete features, first.
Again, that's fine, I just wanted a decision on this formally made, since these users took the time to comment.

Comment 6

[Michiel van Leeuwen (email: mvl+moz@)]

I agree with joey that we need to look at the feedback. But we can't count the comments that just say 'i don't like the change'. There is no good way we can figure out what is best liked.
But what we can look for is use cases that are now harder to do, and for cases that are easier. Then we can try to fix those harder cases without regressing the easier cases.

For example, those three comments:
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=596825
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=596844
http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=596479
all seem to boil down to: I can't get a simple way to see a month calendar, to figure out which day is the 20th of a month. It doesn't seem to be related to events, just to day of the week. A possible solution could be to add a calendar to the today pane.

Comment 7

[Stefan Sitter [:ssitter]]

(In reply to comment #6)
> I can't get a simple way to see a month calendar [...] A possible
> solution could be to add a calendar to the today pane.

This solution is already requested in Bug 387420.

Comment 8

[Simon Paquet [:sipaq]]

It would be good to do something about some issues that were raised after 0.7 in the 0.8 timeframe. However, this is in no way a release blocker.

Comment 9

[Bas van den Bosch]

I think the today-pane itself isn't the most important issue, it would be nice if one could change the location though. More important and related to this is the lacking of the today-pane in the calendar-view. I think most comments people made will be solved by adding the today-pane (which in itself is great) to the calendar-view. 

Comment 10

[Myk Melez [:myk] [@mykmelez]]

Adding one more user comment: I recently started using Lightning, and although I wouldn't want the Today Pane in my folder pane (which is cramped enough as it is, and since I don't like scrolling that pane), I would prefer it to appear in its own column on the left-hand side of the window rather than the right-hand side, as it is now.

I think this is partly because the Today Pane presents status, something that I should look at regularly for changes, and that's more similar to the folder pane (where I look for unread counts) than the message pane; and partly because the today pane is busy and complex, which is distracting when I'm trying to focus my concentration on reading the message next to it (as opposed to glancing at something momentarily, which is what I do when I "look left" to the folder pane).

Comment 11

[Simon Paquet [:sipaq]]

Not going to happen for 0.8.

Comment 12

[rsx11m]

(In reply to comment #3)
> Summarizing that feedback is fairly simple: Users feel the new layout is an
> inefficient use of vertical space.  These are users who either don't have many
> folders, or don't mind having to scroll to view their folders.

Also, people with small screens (or eye problems) may have set their display to 800x600 or 1024x768, in which case the today pane in a separate right column breaks substantially the 3-pane layout. It was reason enough for me to revert back to 0.5 since it didn't work out for me.

(In reply to comment #4)
> And how many are these, compared to the ones who are lucky with the change,
> but do not state this in any forum, blog or what ever medium?

You are right, it's difficult to judge from post numbers alone how relevant a problem is, but it gives you a hint where the most common issues are. It takes a bit of frustration for many before they post on a blog or forum, and even more before they comment on or file a formal bug report. This specific issue is more than just about liking or disliking the new layout, it objectively causes problems under certain circumstances for a specific group of users.

As for the today-pane location, the general message of those MZ forum posts (including mine) was that the location needs to be configurable (e.g., by a preference dialog or in a Layout submenu) and not fixed. In this way, people with high-resolution wide-screen monitors and many accounts can have the folder pane free of calendar items, whereas others with a smaller conventional 4:3 screen and few accounts can retain it in the lower folder pane and have the remainder of the screen for their messages. Good to read in comment #4 that this is under consideration (for 1.0 then?). With Lightning supposed to be bundled with TB3 in the future, it's getting more important that a wide acceptance is given.

Comment 13

[Bas van den Bosch]

http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=591039
announces the MoreLayoutsforThunderbird extension which makes it possible to replace the todaypane beneath the mail-folders. 

Comment 14

[Marcus Yoo]

I agree completely that the location of today pane should be user configurable.
I also agree with the user that said today pane should remain visible when thunderbird goes to calendar mode, though I think this should also be a configurable option.
And in the same token, the (mail) folders pane should be (configured to be) visible in calendar mode as well. I would like to be able to click on a folder while in calendar mode, which will switch me back to mail mode.
In the same token,
should selecting an event in the today pane switch thunderbird into calendar mode?

Comment 15

[Philipp Kewisch [:Fallen] [:📆][:🧩]]

I am all for user configuration, but I think that moving the today pane wherever the user may want it a bit too much. Putting it in the folder pane won't work, not enough vertical space. A separate column on the left is possible, but I think this would look strange for the average user. I haven't seen any futher bug reports on moving the today pane somwhere else, so unless someone objects I'm going to close this bug WONTFIX. Thank you for all the suggestions.