Closed Bug 411519 Opened 16 years ago Closed 15 years ago

KB article: Accessing FTP servers

Categories

(support.mozilla.org :: Knowledge Base Articles, task)

task
Not set
major

Tracking

(Not tracked)

VERIFIED FIXED

People

(Reporter: jason.barnabe, Assigned: cilias)

References

()

Details

Are we writing KB articles about extension functionality now?
'Can I do FTP uploads in Firefox' is a common question, because some people use IE for FTP uploads. If an extension happens to be an answer, great! :-)
Ok, I'm installing FireFTP and I'll write up a quick guide to using FTP servers by Monday.
Assignee: nobody → bugzilla.cww
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 16 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
You can strip this down. 
- The article should be about *uploads*. Don't bother with how to download from FTP sites.
- Leave instructions on how to set up and use FireFTP to the FireFTP folks. (Maybe they might be interested in putting that section on their site. :) )
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
OS: Windows XP → All
Hardware: PC → All
Resolution: FIXED → ---
I'm not sure I understand.  I mean I understand that you wanted an article on uploads, but there isn't an article on FTP sites in general and you can't upload in Firefox.

Do I just write an article that says "Sorry no can do"?
Think of it this way: If someone in the forum asked "How do I upload to FTP sites in Firefox?" What would your answer be?
Basically, the answer to that is: Firefox does not support FTP uploads, but there is an add-on that will add that functionality, called FireFTP.

Then you tell the user where to get FireFTP, and how to install it. Then refer the user to FireFTP documentation for instructions on how to use FireFTP.
Ok, this is a policy thing that I'm not sure I agree with.

Sure the exact question asked is "How do I upload?" but what if there was a question "Can I access FTP servers with Firefox?", or "can I download from sftp servers with Firefox"?  It seems pointless to write exceedingly specific articles for really specific questions when you can have a more general article you can use a redirect to point a user to.  If they install FireFTP, as suggested by any upload article, they'll probably want to know how to connect and download with it as well.  If they are looking for an article on getting to FTP sites, they may also want to know how to upload, so it's logical to put these on the same page.  I understand the value in answering only the user's question and nothing else, but that approach seems best suited to direct support (forums, newsgroups, IRC or LiveChat). KB support is the kind where we tell people about all the features and expand their knowledgebase.
Cww, we discussed this with the addons.mozilla.org manager and basically agreed that it would be unfeasible for SUMO to provide instructions for how to use extensions. Instead, we want to make Firefox users aware of the fact that an extension is a separate entity from Firefox, and that we don't officially provide support for the extension itself. 

That's why in this case, it's probably best to just point out that "this is not supported in Firefox, BUT go install this extension over here etc."

Most high quality extensions have their own documentation. In this case, linking to http://fireftp.mozdev.org/help.html would be better than providing instructions of our own.
(In reply to comment #8)
> question "Can I access FTP servers with Firefox?", or "can I download from sftp
> servers with Firefox"? 

I don't think people would ask that question. People would try first and see that they could. Additionally, anyone advanced enough to even ask that question would be able to easily figure out for themselves how to do it.

That being said, there's nothing saying you couldn't mention offhand that Firefox does support FTP in this article. "While Firefox can download from FTP sites, you need to install an extension to enable FTP uploads."
Ok, I'm totally confused.  If you think people don't ask about general FTP, you're wrong.  People ask this.  Or at least I've had two LiveChat questions about it.  Thus, I'm reading this question as a "how do I do this thing I can do in IE in Firefox".  That's why (I thought) we wanted the article in the first place and if I'm going to explain how to make Firefox handle FTP sites, I could offer more help than just a link.  

Do we have a series of other articles with "you can't do this but try X extension"?  Maybe this was the first one so I just couldn't grasp the concept of writing an article that is essentially one line and a link.

Anyhow, I've corrected this (but left the broader scope since people do ask about that.).  No sense in arguing.  But I do want to register that I have no clue what the scope if the KB is anymore and how much we should try to give users instructions vs how much we link them out.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 16 years ago16 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Sorry for the confusion. If you see people are asking about FTP sites, then let's keep it in.

I'm not sure if we have any articles right now that just point people to extensions, but I don't see a problem with it. There are a few mz articles that do this

http://kb.mozillazine.org/Creating_a_desktop_shortcut_to_a_webpage
http://kb.mozillazine.org/Restore_the_mail_commands_in_Firefox

As for the scope, if it's something that's not made by Mozilla and there are good instructions elsewhere, just link to the good instructions. If there are no instructions or they suck, write your own. For example, we describe how to set up Firefox in firewalls, but we link to how to upgrade Flash.

Now on to the article. Most of this is just wording and such, I don't see anything wrong with the actual content.

-Maybe have uploads as its own section? I can imagine people not noticing the info you gave in the intro because there is no "uploads" heading
-"A list of these" is somewhat ambiguous - at first read I thought it referred to "secure servers".
-"You can also use the FireFTP extension which can be found [here]." -> You can also use the [FireFTP extension]"
-https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/684 -> https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/addon/684
-"Firefox supports basic access to FTP servers using the FTP protocol without any extensions" ambiguous, I read "without any extensions" as describing the FTP protocol that Firefox supports
-"To connect to a server that supports this" this = what?
-"location bar" -> "Location Bar"
-"For example clicking" -> "For example, clicking"
-I may be wrong, but I don't think URLs need the CODE tag. Maybe just bold?
-"Some FTP servers don't allow anonymous access (access with an unspecified user name) and thus require a user name." This leads me to believe that I have to use this syntax to access such servers.
-I think put the explanation before the example.
Reopening as there's still issues to address.
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: FIXED → ---
It occurred to me that a person that is wanting to log in to an FTP site, is
usually going to upload, and a person looking to upload is almost
always going to need to log in. So we'd be more intuitive by having a general
"using FTP" article. Renaming.

Split it by section:
- accessing FTP sites
- navigating
- logging in
- downloading
- uploading

Cater this toward people are used to IE.

Suggest username@server, instead of username:password@server. (Better for privacy, and the password manager will pop up.)
Summary: KB article: Uploading to FTP sites → KB article: Using FTP sites
Ok, I'm totally confused (and somehow I got dropped from the CC list... o.O)

The problem with splitting is if they already have FireFTP installed, it's pointless to tell them to use the default methods to download.  I think the original structure made more sense.
Ok, can we agree on a list of things to put into this article and a list of stuff that shouldn't be in this article?

Then I'll rewrite it.

I get about one "How do I use FTP in Firefox" question a week on average in LiveChat.
This article assumes the user doesn't have FireFTP installed.
It explains what can be done in Firefox, and then points them to FireFTP for further functionality (uploading). 
Otherwise, just point them FireFTP (that's all).

It would probably work best if the article said at the beginning that Firefox does not support FTP uploads, but you can use FireFTP.
(In reply to comment #17)
> It would probably work best if the article said at the beginning that Firefox
> does not support FTP uploads, but you can use FireFTP.

Policy change: We cannot recommend FireFTP, so use the amo content block, to refer users to AMO.
(In reply to comment #18)
> Policy change: We cannot recommend FireFTP, 

That may be easily misinterpreted, so I'll clarify: It's not just FireFTP we cannot recommend, it's linking to any specific dd-on.
Can we get an update to this article, so we can review it for the KB?
->Major, because "ftp" is sometimes in the top search terms.
Severity: minor → major
Ok any updates on this?
Cww are you working on this? If not, please assign to nobody so someone else can take over. Thanks!
Assignee: cwwmozilla → nobody
I'll take this.
Assignee: nobody → bmo2008
Okay, ready for review.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 16 years ago15 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Summary: KB article: Using FTP sites → KB article: Accessing FTP servers
Looks good, would it be worth adding that some ftp server dont allow connections anonymously? Ive approved it but feel free to edit.
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
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