412203 - Font substitution: Arial Unicode MS should be the last option

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Core :: Graphics, enhancement)

Description

[Biju]

Attachment: Arial_Unicode_MS.png

Thanks to automatic font substitution for Unicode

But I wish "Arial Unicode MS" should be chosen as the last option to substitute.

Test step I used:-
1. Ensure you have "AnjaliOldLipi" and "Arial Unicode MS" font 
2. Ensure you have no other Malayalam font 
   (Yes, I am not having the MS default Karthika font on that PC)
3. You are on a new Firefox profile
   (or you have not chosen any particular font for Malayalam)
4. goto http://ml.wikipedia.org/
5. User see screen as attached Arial_Unicode_MS.png
6. This dont show "Koottaksharam" (complex/compound letter)



AnjaliOldLipi download
http://prdownloads.sourceforge.net/varamozhi/AnjaliOldLipi-0.730.ttf?use_mirror=kent

Comment 1

[Biju]

Attachment: font_substitution.png almost OK

Comment 2

[Praveen A]

You can chose which font you want for each language. Options-> Content -> Fonts & Colors -> Advanced->Malayalam. Should we still keep this as an open bug?

Comment 3

[Biju]

(In reply to comment #0)
> 3. You are on a new Firefox profile

(In reply to comment #2)
> You can chose which font you want for each language. Options-> Content -> Fonts
> & Colors -> Advanced->Malayalam. Should we still keep this as an open bug?

See above test step 3
I know user can fix it by changing it, 
see attachment 296876 [details] (font_substitution.png) it is after changing font

But my point is we should give lowest priority to "Arial Unicode MS"
unlike Kartika font from MS, "Arial Unicode MS" dont have information to make "Koottaksharam". But it has almost all characters in the world.

And this is not filed as bug but as an enhancement.

There is another issue on attachment 296876 [details] url bar. Which is a bug and I will file it as separately.

PS: I am thankful to MS for putting "Arial Unicode MS" on system even if user did not choose Asian font while installing. 

Comment 4

[Biju]

(In reply to comment #3)
> There is another issue on attachment 296876 [details] url bar. 
> Which is a bug and I will file it as separately.

ok that is Bug 412222 

Comment 5

[Stuart Parmenter]

I don't want to get in to the habit of banning/blacklisting fonts.  We try to pick the best font we can... Perhaps we should try to come up with some better ways to do that... Default fonts should be used, prefs, etc.

Comment 6

[Praveen A]

AFAIK Arial Unicode MS is a typewriter/reformed script font which does not have all the conjuncts (koottaksharams). Even though I would love to see traditional scripts used everywhere I think we should not force a particular script/font on a user. If Arial Unicode MS is default for all applications we should not force a change in Firefox. Unicode is about freeing up from a font dependency lets not go back to the old ways at the time of ascii fonts. It should pick up any unicode font available in the system.

Comment 7

[Biju]

(In reply to comment #5)
> I don't want to get in to the habit of banning/blacklisting fonts.

I am not suggesting banning/blacklisting fonts.

> ways to do that... Default fonts should be used, prefs, etc.

What if user not yet set font preference.
As I did for few days, before discovering it.

BTW: I really like "Arial Unicode MS" when I visit sites with Chinese, Japanese, Korean characters. It give a proper character (even though I dont know to read those languages) instead of boxes.

Also it is useful to those who visit a Indian language site and dont have any special font with bells and whistles for that language.

It will be difficult to say which font has better bells and whistles.
But we will be able to easily find a list of "Generic" fonts (for lack of better term), and "Arial Unicode MS" come under that.

I am just suggesting try to use a a non "Generic" font with proper code point first. If not successful only use the "Generic" ones.

Comment 8

[Praveen A]

AFAIK, if you don't specify a font, the rendering engine gets to chose the font. So in this case pango decides to use Arial Unicode MS because it provides all the required characters. If you expect mixed content this is the best bet. 

As long as the font provides the unicode code points all fonts are equal for the rendering engine. AFAICT, bells and whistles are quite subjective (some might like Arial than AnjaliOldLipi) and it should not play a role in deciding which font to use. The issue is - how do you objectively decide the preference? 

For a rendering engine if Arial and AnjaliOldLipi provide all unicode characters specified in Malayalam block of unicode, then there is absolutely no preference between these, it does not matter if Arial give chinese characters of AnjaliOldlipi give non-existent chillus, both are qualified to render Malayalam content _equally_.

Comment 9

[Justin Kerk]

Seems to me like AnjaliOldLipi should be added to a font.name-list pref for Malayalam if it's a standard font in the user community (which it seems to be). That would at least take care of the reporter's problem even if Arial Unicode MS might still come up for somebody with another unrecognized font.

Comment 10

[Praveen A]

I would strongly oppose any such move. It negates the whole point of standards and unicode. Do we want to go back to the old age of font encoding? If a font is buggy, fix it. If you can't fix it, throw it.

Comment 11

[Biju]

(In reply to comment #9)
> Seems to me like AnjaliOldLipi should be added to a font.name-list pref for
> Malayalam if it's a standard font in the user community (which it seems to be).

Thanks Justin for font.name-list 

(In reply to comment #10)
> I would strongly oppose any such move. 
> It negates the whole point of standards and unicode. 

I agree, but Firefox is already using it.
see your about:config with "font.name-list" as filter

I feel my suggestion in this RFE is better than font.name-list.
but still it is not the best, so marking this as wont fix