412387 - Remove the ellipsis from "Bookmark This <type>…"

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Firefox :: Bookmarks & History, defect)

Description

[Alex Faaborg [:faaborg] (Firefox UX)]

We should remove the ellipsis from the menu command "Bookmark this page..." since the action is now instant apply.

Comment 1

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

Attachment: patch - v1

Remove the ellipsis from the "Bookmark This Page" option. Note that help is still outdated, but it's more than just this option that's out of date, so I just left it alone for now.

Comment 2

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

Comment on attachment 297108 [details] [diff] [review]
patch - v1

Rev the entity name please.

Comment 3

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

Attachment: patch - v2

Done. Wasn't sure whether I needed to for just a removal of ellipsis since it's not a "wording change," per se.

Comment 4

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

It's something that localizers should be noticed on as well.

Comment 5

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

Comment on attachment 297110 [details] [diff] [review]
patch - v2

Simple removal of ellipsis, as per request of UX.

Comment 6

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

FWIW, this doesn't mean I like it myself, the menu-item does open a dialog (similar to Minefield->Preferences... on mac).

Comment 7

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Stop! The ellipsis is right, the dialog is wrong! It must not apply instantly. See bug 393509.

Comment 8

[Alex Faaborg [:faaborg] (Firefox UX)]

Comment on attachment 297110 [details] [diff] [review]
patch - v2

Thanks for the quick turn around.

Comment 9

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Also, it's not clear whether there should be "...", even for current behaviour. It does open a dialog.

Quoting Apple Human Interface Guidelines (*the* guidelines on GUI rules, generally also apply to Windows and Linux):
---
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-TPXREF115
"An ellipsis character (…) after a menu item indicates to the user that additional information is required to complete a command."

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGText/chapter_13_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000365-TPXREF126
Using the Ellipsis Character

When it appears in the name of a button or a menu item, an ellipsis character (…) indicates to the user that additional information is required before the associated operation can be performed. Specifically, it prepares the user to expect the appearance of a window or dialog in which to make selections or enter information before the command executes. Because users expect instant action from buttons and menu items (as described in “Buttons” and “Menu Behavior”), it's especially important to prepare them for this alternate behavior by appropriately displaying the ellipsis character. The following guidelines and examples will help you decide when to use an ellipsis in menu item and button names.

Use an ellipsis in the name of a button or menu item when the associated action:

    *

      Requires specific input from the user.

      For example, the Open, Find, and Print commands all use an ellipsis because the user must select or input the item to open, find, or print. The Save As command uses an ellipsis because it allows the user to give the file or document a new name, location, or both.

      You can think of commands of this type as needing the answer to a specific question (such as "Find what?") before executing.
    *

      Is performed by the user in a separate window or dialog.

      For example, Preferences, Customize Toolbar, and Send Feedback all use an ellipsis because they open a window (potentially in another application, such as a browser) or a dialog in which the user sets preferences, customizes the toolbar, or sends feedback.

      To see why such commands must include an ellipsis, consider that the absence of an ellipsis implies that the application performs the action for the user. If, for example, the Send Feedback command did not include an ellipsis, it would imply that feedback is generated and sent automatically by the application.
    *

      Always displays an alert that warns the user of a potentially dangerous outcome and offers an alternative.

      For example, Restart, Shut Down, and Log Out all use an ellipsis because they always display an alert that asks the user for confirmation and allows the user to cancel the action. Note that Close does not have an ellipsis because it displays an alert only in certain circumstances (specifically, only when the document or file being closed has unsaved changes).

      Before you consider providing a command that always displays an alert, determine if it's really necessary to get the user's approval every time. Displaying too many alerts asking for user confirmation can dilute the effectiveness of alerts.

Don't use an ellipsis in the name of a button or menu item when the associated action:

    # Does not require specific input from the user.

For example, the New, Save, and Copy commands do not use an ellipsis because either the user has already provided the necessary information or no user input is required. That is, New always opens a new document or window, Save automatically saves the currently active document, and Copy copies the user's most recently selected text or item to the Clipboard.

(...)

----

"it prepares the user to expect the appearance of a window or dialog" suggests that the ellipsis is appropriate even for the current dialog or behaviour.

Comment 10

[Alex Faaborg [:faaborg] (Firefox UX)]

>the menu-item does open a dialog

In the new design it will really be more of a notification.

>Stop! The ellipsis is right, the dialog is wrong! It must not apply instantly.

I know this has been highly debated, but there are a lot of reasons we want to
go for instant apply based on the current failure of bookmarks.

Comment 11

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> In the new design it will really be more of a notification.

No, it has UI widgets, like Edit.... That makes it a dialog. See my latest comment about keyboard focus.

I am citing Apple interface guidelines, which are the *definition* of the ellipsis, but you ignore it anyways. What is this?

As a UI designer, the Apple interface guidelines are your *laws*. Simply because users have burned them in their heads. Your new mockup says "Force the user to learn" - completely wrong attitude, direction.

Comment 12

[Alex Faaborg [:faaborg] (Firefox UX)]

This thing breaks a bunch of HIG guidelines (which I am normally very careful about following), saying the menu item is wrong is kind of silly because if you start breaking out the HIG you are going to find a ton of other violations that are larger than an ellipsis.

If we were at Apple working on Mail.app and I posted my UI for data detectors, or contextual dialogs for To Do items in notes, would you quote the HIG to prove we don't know what we are doing?

The G in HIG stands for guidelines, things that you can break if you know what you are doing.  We are trying to make bookmarking better, not exactly the same as the last release.

>"Force the user to learn" - completely wrong attitude, direction.

That was phrased poorly, but saving the user the difficulty of hitting a 16x16 target on the other side of the screen for the next 1000 bookmarks the create is certainly good (and carefully thought out) intentions.

Comment 13

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Good UI means making things a lot better with very small changes, and using common, well-known patterns in ways which make sense to everybody who sees it, not changing a lot, violating guidelines, with questionable advantages like making the OK click spot larger (the whole page).

Comment 14

[Jo Hermans]

(In reply to comment #9)
> Quoting Apple Human Interface Guidelines (*the* guidelines on GUI rules,
> generally also apply to Windows and Linux):

Ben, that's not true. On Windows and Linux the ellipsis doesn't indicate a dialog being opened but further input being required in order to complete the original action. Apple uses it to indicate that a dialog box will follow. For instance on Windows, Page Setup doesn't use ellipsis ; on Mac it does.

See bug 255051 for this discussion.

(and I don't want to choose a side whether an ellipsis would be used in this case or not)

Comment 15

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

FWIW, Page Setup... does have an ellipsis for me in Firefox/Thunderbird (Linux)
And it doesn't look platform-specific:
mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/browser.dtd:<!ENTITY printSetupCmd.label "Page Setup…">

Comment 16

[Jo Hermans]

Yes, that's why bug 255051 is still open.

Comment 17

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

Checking in browser/base/content/browser-menubar.inc;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/base/content/browser-menubar.inc,v  <--  browser-menubar.inc
new revision: 1.127; previous revision: 1.126
done
Checking in browser/base/content/browser-sets.inc;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/base/content/browser-sets.inc,v  <--  browser-sets.inc
new revision: 1.109; previous revision: 1.108
done
Checking in browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/browser.dtd;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/browser.dtd,v  <--  browser.dtd
new revision: 1.86; previous revision: 1.85
done
Checking in browser/locales/en-US/chrome/help/firebird-toc.rdf;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/help/firebird-toc.rdf,v  <--  firebird-toc.rdf
new revision: 1.68; previous revision: 1.67
done
Checking in browser/locales/en-US/chrome/help/menu_reference.xhtml;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/help/menu_reference.xhtml,v  <--  menu_reference.xhtml
new revision: 1.53; previous revision: 1.52
done

Comment 18

[Ria Klaassen (not reading all bugmail)]

Could this bug have caused a dot in the find bar input field, and the userChrome.css code #FindToolbar { -moz-box-direction: reverse; } not working anymore?

Comment 19

[Ria Klaassen (not reading all bugmail)]

(In reply to comment #18)
> Could this bug have caused a dot in the find bar input field, and the
> userChrome.css code #FindToolbar { -moz-box-direction: reverse; } not working
> anymore?
>
Sorry, ignore this comment, it was Bug 312247. 

Comment 20

[Tracy Walker [:tracy]]

verified with: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; Intel Mac OS X 10.4; en-US; rv:1.9b3pre) Gecko/2008011604 Minefield/3.0b3pre

Comment 21

[Jim Jeffery not reading bug-mail 1/2/11]

The ellipsis is still present on the right-click context menu..  Intended ? 

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.0; en-US; rv:1.9b3pre) Gecko/2008011804 Minefield/3.0b3pre Firefox/3.0 ID:2008011804

Comment 22

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

(In reply to comment #21)
> The ellipsis is still present on the right-click context menu..  Intended ? 

No, I probably just missed that one. Reopening to get it. Patch coming up soon.

Comment 23

[Alex Faaborg [:faaborg] (Firefox UX)]

I was meaning to follow up about that, thanks for the patch Reed.

Comment 24

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

Attachment: Update context menu - v1

Fix the ones in the context menu.

Comment 25

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

Comment on attachment 298071 [details] [diff] [review]
Update context menu - v1

I would rather do bookmarkLink->bookmarkThisLink and bookmarkFrame->bookmarkThisFrame.

What about bookmark-this-tab?

Comment 26

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

What about bookmarkPageCmd2, as there's already a bookmarkThisPageCmd?

Comment 27

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

Attachment: Update context menu - v2

Dunno what to do about bookmarkPageCmd2...

Comment 28

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

Comment on attachment 298077 [details] [diff] [review]
Update context menu - v2

r=mano

Comment 29

[Alex Faaborg [:faaborg] (Firefox UX)]

Comment on attachment 298077 [details] [diff] [review]
Update context menu - v2

switching ui-r to beltzner to make sure that he agrees with the string change.

Comment 30

[Mike Beltzner [:beltzner, not reading bugmail]]

Comment on attachment 298077 [details] [diff] [review]
Update context menu - v2

Yeah, this is right.

Comment 31

[Mike Beltzner [:beltzner, not reading bugmail]]

Comment on attachment 298077 [details] [diff] [review]
Update context menu - v2

a=beltzner

Comment 32

[Reed Loden [:reed]]

<3 beltzner

Checking in browser/base/content/browser-context.inc;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/base/content/browser-context.inc,v  <--  browser-context.inc
new revision: 1.37; previous revision: 1.36
done
Checking in browser/base/content/tabbrowser.xml;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/base/content/tabbrowser.xml,v  <--  tabbrowser.xml
new revision: 1.260; previous revision: 1.259
done
Checking in browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/browser.dtd;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/browser.dtd,v  <--  browser.dtd
new revision: 1.87; previous revision: 1.86
done
Checking in browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/tabbrowser.dtd;
/cvsroot/mozilla/browser/locales/en-US/chrome/browser/tabbrowser.dtd,v  <--  tabbrowser.dtd
new revision: 1.7; previous revision: 1.6
done

Comment 33

[Gomita]

What was the reason for the changes of the following entity names?
* bookmarkPageCmd.label -> bookmarkPageCmd2.label
* bookmarkFrameCmd.label -> bookmarkThisFrameCmd.label
* bookmarkLinkCmd.label -> bookmarkThisLinkCmd.label

It breaks the compatibility of extensions if they use browser.dtd.

Comment 34

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

Bug 451915 - move Firefox/Places bugs to Firefox/Bookmarks and History. Remove all bugspam from this move by filtering for the string "places-to-b-and-h".

In Thunderbird 3.0b, you do that as follows:
Tools | Message Filters
Make sure the correct account is selected. Click "New"
Conditions: Body   contains   places-to-b-and-h
Change the action to "Delete Message".
Select "Manually Run" from the dropdown at the top.
Click OK.

Select the filter in the list, make sure "Inbox" is selected at the bottom, and click "Run Now". This should delete all the bugspam. You can then delete the filter.

Gerv

Comment 35

[Thomas D. (:thomas8)]

FTR, I'll add updated URLs for those helpful HIG links provided by Ben, in case others want to use them as I did. Thanks.

(In reply to Ben Bucksch (:BenB) from comment #9)
> Quoting Apple Human Interface Guidelines (*the* guidelines on GUI rules,
> generally also apply to Windows and Linux):
> ---
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/
> OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGMenus/chapter_16_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/
> TP30000356-TPXREF115

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/Menus/Menus.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000356-TPXREF117

> "An ellipsis character (…) after a menu item indicates to the user that
> additional information is required to complete a command."
> 
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/
> OSXHIGuidelines/XHIGText/chapter_13_section_3.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/
> TP30000365-TPXREF126
> Using the Ellipsis Character

https://developer.apple.com/library/mac/documentation/UserExperience/Conceptual/AppleHIGuidelines/TextStyle/TextStyle.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP30000365-TPXREF126