418704 - Delete of a message from POP3 server does not always delete from Inbox

Status: RESOLVED INCOMPLETE

(MailNews Core :: Networking: POP, defect)

Description

[Mike Riley]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.8.1.12) Gecko/20080201 Firefox/2.0.0.12
Build Identifier: 2.0.0.9

This problem seems to have existed forever.  For my home account I use a POP3 mail server on cox.net, but for work we use an IMAP server.  This problem only occurs on the POP3 server.  I use either Windows XP or Solaris 10 (X86 or Sparc) to run Thunderbird on.

If I manually move a message, or use a filter to move the message, to a sub-folder on my local disk the message is never deleted from the server.  Note that sometimes I am also doing a move from the POP3 Inbox to a sub-folder that I keep on my work IMAP server, but that should work the same as if I was doing that to a local folder on my disk.

If a message is deleted manually it may end up deleted on the server, but quite often it is left there as well.  I have not been able to determine why some deleted message do get removed and others get left there.

I do have the options set to leave messages on the server until I delete them, and a Move operation should count as a delete.

Usually we only have a single system accessing the account, but there may be times that multiple computers will be accessing it, however that is the exception.

I have never had this be an issue when moving or deleting a message from the work IMAP server.

The end result is that I have to use the very slow web interface to clear out old E-mails from the POP3 server or else it will fill up.  I have been using Thunderbird since 1.x and had hoped this would be fixed, but since it has not I am guessing there is something unique about my configuration.  Possibly the Cox POP3 server is the reason it acts this way.


Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Manually move or use a filter to move a message from the POP3 server.
2. View the Inbox with another system or via the web interface and you will see the messages still there.
3. Try the same with Deleting a file.
Actual Results:  
Message is left on the server after being moved or deleted.

Expected Results:  
Messages should be removed from the server immediately so they are not seen by another system accessing the same account or via the web interface.

I have "Leave Message On Server"->"Until I Delete Them" selected.  I also have "Empty Trash on Exit" selected.  The only other setting that might affect this is "Don't Delete Any Message" is selected, but that is because I want them left until I decide to delete them.

Feel free to contact me if you need more info or want me to test any fix.

Comment 1

[vadim_s]

I have the similar issue with Thunderbird v2.0.0.9 (20071031) on Linux FC4. The POP3 server is Dovecot v1.0.
Thunderbird does not remove messages from pop3 server if I set "Leave messages on server" and "Until I delete them" checkboxes. I can do everything I want with messages in my Inbox: move it to another folder manually or by filter rules, click on "Delete" icon and empty a "Deleted" folder - it does not delete anything from the server, and the number of messages in my mailbox continue to grow. The only way to empty my mailbox on the server is to clear "Leave messages on server", click on "Get mail" and set "Leave..." checkbox again. This annoying procedure of manually emptying pop3 mailbox I have to perform weekly. Changing the "mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove" parameter to true, as adviced in bug report 378474, does not change this behavior.
My previous version of Thunderbird was v1.4, and it deleted messages from the server exactly as required: just after moving them from Inbox to anywhere else and clicking on "Get Mail".

Comment 2

[Magnus Melin [:mkmelin] (away until Aug 10)]

It deletes the moved messages next time it needs to contact the server, to download messages. (So don't test it thinking it deletes them instantly.)

Comment 3

[Mike Riley]

(In reply to comment #2)
> It deletes the moved messages next time it needs to contact the server, to
> download messages. (So don't test it thinking it deletes them instantly.)

Not that I have seen.  I generally have it set to update every 10 minutes, but messages that are moved stay there like old luggage, as well as those that get deleted.  This is blatantly obvious to use because we access our home account from any of two laptops and two desktops, with messages showing up that I know have been deleted or moved when they were originally read on another system.

Some deleted messages do seem to disappear, as I said, but I am not sure why the rest do not.

Comment 4

[WADA:World Anti-bad-Duping Agency]

(In reply to comment #3)
> Not that I have seen.  I generally have it set to update every 10 minutes, but
> messages that are moved stay there like old luggage, as well as those that get
> deleted.

> Some deleted messages do seem to disappear, as I said, but I am not sure why
> the rest do not.

Perhaps a result of design change of default behaviour in "immediate delete", because of that many users wanted new behaviour(don't delete mail at server when moved to other than trash).
 - Till Tb 1.5  : moved mails & deleted mails are deleted from server
                  sub-option : Until I delete or move them from Inbox
 - Since Tb 2.0 : only deleted mails are deleted from server
                  default of mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove = false
                  sub-option : Until I delete them
AFAIK, this change was done based on next,
 - Existence of per-folder "Retention Policy", 
and was done with next change,
 - Presetting of "7" in "For atmost X days" in "Leave Message on Server" option.

Will following option alter Tb's behaviour as you want(same one as Tb 1.5)?
  mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove = true

Comment 5

[vadim_s]

Just upgraded my Thunderbird to version 2.0.0.12 (20080213). New version - new amazing features :)
Click on button "Get Mail" brings me an alert "The RETR command did not succeeded. Error retrieving a message. Mail server responded: Message is deleted."
Ethereal shows the following dialog with server:
....
DELE 416
+OK Marked to be deleted
DELE 417
+OK Marked to be deleted
DELE 418
+OK Marked to be deleted
RETR 418
-ERR Message is deleted
....
Funny... Top secret! Delete prior to reading!

After some attempts to download messages Thunderbird stops to respond and I have to kill it. After restarting it launches a bug reporting tool, which hangs too, if I click on "Details" or "Send" button.

Comment 6

[bienek]

This annoying bug is still in Thunderbird 3.0b1. Having a POP-account configured on several computers and ocasionally organizing the mails on an different IMAP-account gets difficult.

Comment 7

[skierpage]

There are two bugs here, I think Move should be split into a separate bug and Delete is WORKSFORME.

Clearly deleting from inbox in Thunderbird should remove from the POP3 inbox if your account settings call for that.  I'm running Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.5pre) Gecko/20091009 Shredder/3.0pre talking to an earthlink.net POP3 account.  With Account Settings of "[x] Leave messages on server, [x] Until I delete them" and a retention policy on my Inbox of "Use my account settings", I find that if I delete a message from my TB inbox, it is gone from my POP3 inbox when I next click Get Mail.

However, a move of a message from my TB Inbox has never deleted it from my POP3 server.  If you agree with comment #1 that "a Move operation should count as a delete" then this should happen automatically just like a delete.  Otherwise, I would like an additional Account Settings option under Leave messages on server, "[ ] Until I move them from my Inbox". that *moving* from my TB Inbox also deletes on the POP3 server.

My use case for move is I get lots of messages from mailing lists that I or Message Filters  move from my Inbox into other folders.  I'd like anything I move from my inbox to be removed on the POP3 server.

Comment #4 is hard to understand, but I just found "mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove" in about:config.  That sounds like what I want!  However, I have just set it to true and the behavior of my Inbox has not changed; I've moved several e-mails from my inbox in TB and they're still in my POP3 inbox even after clicking Get Mail.

Comment 8

[WADA:World Anti-bad-Duping Agency]

(In reply to comment #7)
> I have just set it to true and the behavior of my Inbox has not changed;

Some prefs.js settings are read upon restart only, especially when the setting change is not done via ordinal preference/account settings UI.
Did you restart Tb after your change of mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove via Config Editor?

Do you use Global Inbox?
If yes, Global Inbox owner is pseudo account of "Local Folders"?

Is data in popstate.dat different between mail-A(deleted) and mail-B(moved)?
(1) Set the entry to true, enable POP3 logging, restart Tb.
(2) Keep backup of popstate.dat in each account's mail directory.
    (UIDL and status is saved in this file)
(3-1) Delete mail-A(say UIDL=uidl-A. See X-UIDL: header of message source)
(3-2) Move mail-B(say UIDL=uidl-B)
(4) Keep backup of popstate.dat(UIDL and status is saved in this file)
    Status is different?
(5) Get Msgs. DLET is issued for mail-B?
(6) Keep backup of popstate.dat(UIDL and status is saved in this file)
    Status is one as expected?

Comment 10

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

related/dupes: bug 279040, bug 439168?

Comment 11

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

please reply to questions in comment 8. if possible, please base your results based on usage of version 3.


(In reply to comment #7)
> There are two bugs here, I think Move should be split into a separate bug and
> Delete is WORKSFORME.

rather than spike a new bug, let's morph this to just the move issue.

Comment 12

[Joshua Cranmer [:jcranmer]]

RESOLVED INCOMPLETE due to lack of response to last question. If you feel this change was made in error, please respond with your reasons why.

Comment 13

[skierpage]

Sorry for the delay, I was using webmail to access Earthlink for a while so I couldn't answer.

Here's what happens in "Shredder/3.0.3pre" (Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-US; rv:1.9.1.9pre) Gecko/20100217) when I move a message to a folder from the inbox on my earthlink.net POP3 server if mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove is set true:  In popstate.dat, the state of one line immediately changes from 'k' to 'd'.  Good news, it seems that choosing Get Mail then causes pop3.earthlink.net to delete the moved message from my inbox (I'm not sure how to tell whether "DLET is issued", I don't see this in Error Console or Activity Manager), and the line with the 'k'/'d' in popstate.dat goes away.  Earthlink's webmail UI does not properly reflect the message  unless you sign out of their web app and back in, but that's their bug ;-).

I also have message filters that move messages from my Inbox into folders.  I had added the action "Delete From POP Server" to these filters, I'm not sure if this action is redundant if mail.pop3.deleteFromServerOnMove is true.

Anyway, WORKSFORME, and thanks!