Do not expose -moz-user-select/-webkit-user-select to content (user hostile)

RESOLVED WONTFIX

Status

()

RESOLVED WONTFIX
10 years ago
8 hours ago

People

(Reporter: faaborg, Unassigned)

Tracking

({dev-doc-needed})

Trunk
x86
All
dev-doc-needed
Points:
---

Firefox Tracking Flags

(Not tracked)

Details

(URL)

(Reporter)

Description

10 years ago
I can't select text on this page:

http://www.sheahomes.com/main.cfm?dir=findahome&sec=none&subsec=directions&temp=communityother&communityid=570

Not sure why, or really what component to file against.

Using Gecko/20090205 Shiretoko/3.1b3pre, tested on both OS X and Windows Vista.

Comment 1

10 years ago
disabling http://www.sheahomes.com/css/dhtml-horiz.css seems to enable selection...

Comment 2

10 years ago
sorry, wrong bit of css but it's in there somewhere
(Reporter)

Comment 3

10 years ago
So do we provide a way for web developers to actively block people selecting text on their pages, or is this a bug?  The text is selectable in Chrome, Safari and IE, so I assumed the problem was on our side (either way I think we should give the user more control than the web developer).

Comment 4

10 years ago
guessing:
td {-moz-user-select:	none;} .selected {background:	Highlight;color:HighlightText;}

in:
http://www.sheahomes.com/css/sh_page_styles.css

apparently:
https://developer.mozilla.org/En/CSS/-moz-user-select

( I don't count as we but I'll agree that it's pretty ugly as is)
(Reporter)

Comment 5

10 years ago
dbaron in dev.platform explains:

>So user-select was dropped from css3 modules (along with a few other
>related properties), because it was deemed to be a bad idea and/or
>hard to fit with the rest of the CSS model (since properties
>shouldn't be able to influence whether selectors match).  I'm
>actually not entirely sure of the details.
>
>But we implemented -moz-user-{focus,input,modify,select}, and
>changed them a good bit from what was ever proposed in any CSS
>drafts, and have a whole bunch of dependencies on them.
>
>It might actually be a good idea not to expose them to content; I'm
>not sure how much they're used in the wild, though.

I'm morphing the bug to not expose -moz-user-select to content, since this both takes away control from the user, and isn't really a web standard that we want people developing against.
Summary: Can't select text on this page → Do not expose -moz-user-select to content
Component: General → Style System (CSS)
Product: Firefox → Core
QA Contact: general → style-system

Comment 6

10 years ago
I disagree. Often when a website has content and navigation items, it makes sense for the navigation items not to be selectable. I think we should keep this property available to all. If wanted, we could allow users to disable it, either via prefs, or via an extension or direct edits to usercontent.css

Comment 7

10 years ago
Even adding { -moz-user-select: normal !important; } to userContent.css still leaves the text unselectable.

I'm fine with having -moz-user-select available for page content as long as the user can disable it (preferably via userContent.css), but the current behavior - overriding "!important" rules in the user stylesheet - is not acceptable and breaks the W3C standards.

Btw., how do screen readers handle non-selectable text?

Comment 8

10 years ago
Hm. For some reason https://developer.mozilla.org/EN/CSS/-moz-user-select and https://developer.mozilla.org/DE/CSS/-moz-user-select contradict each other regarding the values -moz-user-select may take. While the German page says that possible values are "none", "normal", and "inherit", the English page lists "none", "text", and "-moz-none".

Using { -moz-user-select: text !important; } (instead of "normal" as in Comment #7) in userContent.css seems to work. So users *can* override the document style, and this is more likely a documentation bug.
The values of -moz-user-select are:  "auto" (the initial value, but only since bug 432888, before which the initial value actually couldn't be specified), "none", "text", "element", "elements", "all", "toggle", "tri-state", "-moz-all", and "-moz-none".

Comment 10

9 years ago
(In reply to comment #7)

> I'm fine with having -moz-user-select available for page content as long as the
> user can disable it (preferably via userContent.css)

Using prefs to disable -moz-user-selection:none is too "in depth" and destroys the whole idea behind this property, it will be disabled for everything and not only for desired places.

I think that overriding -moz-user-select:none with some kind of a keyboard key like shift or ctrl and then select with mouse is better than disabling this functionality at all, which could be very well used for clickable elements and navigation.
I also disagree, for the same reason as bsmedberg.  Also, it's trivial
for authors to prevent selecting content using JS.  I've seen a few
versions of that in the wild and they can be even more annoying than
-moz-user-select is.

Fwiw, "View->Page Style->No Style" is already available to avoid any
restrictions made by -moz-user-select.

Preventing selection appears to be widely available in other UAs too:
(-webkit-user-select, -o-user-select, UNSELECTABLE attribute in IE)
I don't consider "View->Page Style->No Style" as a viable solution as it renders modern web pages beyond recognition.

Not being able to select parts of a page is very annoying and renders some of Firefox' function useles. E.g., without being able to select page elements, the user can not apply "View Selection Source" on them.

I voted for this bug because I want users to be able to override "-moz-user-select: none" (and frankly, any other crafty method that prevents users from selecting page content - but that's off topic here). The property "-moz-user-select:" can be understood as a user right restriction. I don't know why Firefox supports a restriction like that without providing a way to override it at the same time, especially as this restriction is not in the official W3C specs. 

Why not add a configuration option (in about:config) to override "(-moz-)user-select" property?
This has valid use cases, but I've noticed it being used in user hostile ways several times over the last two or three months. Latest example:

http://www.nia-uk.org/consumer/nia-members/online-directory/find/?postcode=SE1%200HS

This gives a list of companies, but the website has decided to make it impossible to select the company names, addresses, telephone numbers, email addresses and website URLs...exactly the pieces of info you'd want to copy and paste...
Summary: Do not expose -moz-user-select to content → Do not expose -moz-user-select/-webkit-user-select to content (user hostile)
Keywords: dev-doc-needed
user-select:none is part of the web-platform and we can't remove it
for web-compat reasons.  Also, it has good use cases too (as noted above).
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: 8 hours ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
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