482499 - [hr] Search engine setup for Firefox 3.5 for Croatian.

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: hr / Croatian, defect)

Description

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

We want to ship Firefox 3.5 a good list of search engines for Croatian. 

We're going to work towards this in three phases. First, the localization team and Stas (Stas Malolepszy) will look at the market for the language and come up with a good set of search providers. Ante, we'll need your input on this, the guidelines for making recommendations are on http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox_web_services_guidelines. 

For en-US, we currently use this set, to which we can fall back in the case of lacking localized alternatives:
Google, Yahoo, Amazon, Answers, CC, eBay, Wikipedia

After we decided on a particular search engine, Stas will contact the owner and ask for permission, and for specifics like proper search flags. undefined, we'll likely need your help to at least get the contact information.

Once we have a specification on what the searchengines for Croatian should look like, the localization team and Stas will work on an implementation on that. This should happen by the localization team creating and attaching patches for the desired changes, and requesting review from Stas. After a successful review, the localization team will land them.

Please don't commit any modifications in l10n/hr/browser/searchplugins to the cvs repository without a patch reviewed by Stas, Axel or someone else appointed by Stas or SethB. The data here is sensitive to users and our search partners, thus the extra care here.

Comment 1

[Ante Karamatic]

Well, we have localized Google (www.google.hr) and localized Wikipedia (hr.wikipedia.org). Other than that there's only one local search engine that's worth mentioning - http://www.pogodak.hr (contact email is info@pog....hr). Amazon and eBay aren't localized but are very popular. I'd suggest keeping en-US search engines, with localized google and wikipedia, and adding pogodak.hr.

Comment 2

[Seth Bindernagel]

Ante, would you classify Pogodak as a "generic search" engine?  See Stas's comments in this part of the wiki:  

https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox_web_services_guidelines#Generic_search

Typically, we use two types of each search service (two generic search, two e-commerce, and two specific interest) providers in the localized version.  So, we might want to select only two generic and are looking for your recommendation on Pogodak and one of the two en-US search engines...or both en-US and not Pogodak.  Thoughts?

Comment 3

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

If I understand correctly, what Ante proposed in comment 1 is:

general search: 
* google --> stays (google will do the language detection)
* yahoo --> pogodak.hr

e-commerce:
* Amazon --> stays
* eBay --> stays

specific interest search:
* wikipedia --> hr.wikipedia.org
* Creative Commons --> stays
* Answers --> stays?

Ante, you said that pogodak.hr was the only local SE worth mentioning. Could you elaborate on that? Is it the most popular? Does it provide the best quality of results?

If amazon and ebay are very popular, I'll be happy to keep them. Unless you can think of any other e-commerce websites popular in Croatia? Also, we might want to use Amazon UK and eBay UK, instead of US. Thoughts?

For specific interest search, I think we should include wikipedia (hr) and creative commons. Not sure how popular Answers is in Croatia? Ante, do you think it's worth including them too? Or, maybe there's some other culture or language-related search engine you'd like to suggest? (Examples: on-line library, dictionary.)

Comment 4

[Ante Karamatic]

Most popular search engines in Croatia are Google, Yahoo! and MSN. Pogodak! is the only local search engine that is somewhat visible at all, but I doubt it has any significant market share (I couldn't find any statistics). Replacing Yahoo! with it wouldn't be a wise move. I suggest, if possible, adding it as a third option.

Amazon and eBay are OK for e-commerce (using UK versions is fine), but there are also local e-commerce sites:

www.kupiprodaj.net - ebay-like service
www.algoritam.hr - one of the biggest bookstores in Croatia

While kupiprodaj.net is quite new on-line only service, algoritam.hr is just an online store for bookstore. Hence, I can't tell how often people buy online. kupiprodaj.net might get more popular in next couple of weeks (I base my assumption on growth of number of bids during last 30 days). So adding it in Firefox could help its expansion. It's your call.

As for specific interset search, there's www.moj-posao.net, one of the oldest web services in Croatia. Purpose of the site is a service for offering and searching for a job. But I don't know if that's appropriate for Firefox.

Comment 5

[Ante Karamatic]

Ah, as for Answers.com... I don't know how popular it is. I never heard anyone use it. My guess is that early adopters of localized firefox are those withlow knowledge of English, so providing Answers.com is of no use for them.

Comment 6

[Seth Bindernagel]

www.moj-posao.net might be too specific, but it is up for debate.  I would recommend sticking with CC and wikipedia.

So, our final list could be:

general search: 
* google
* yahoo

e-commerce:
* Amazon
* eBay
-or-
*  www.algoritam.hr  

specific interest search:
* hr.wikipedia.org
* Creative Commons

We should make a call about Algoritam.hr.  It seems like a good fit, but we would have to decide which of the two (Amazon or eBay) we remove.  Final thoughts?

Comment 7

[Seth Bindernagel]

Hi Ante,
Haven't heard from you about www.algoritam.hr.  Just trying to get our final list together for the FF 3.5 beta 4 release.  

We have done some basic web research on services like Alexa.  Although Alexa is not the definitive source, it does show that Algoritam is not in the "top sites" for Croatian users.  

http://www.alexa.com/topsites/countries/HR

Are there any other sites you might recommend?  Or, do you think that Algoritam is still a great offering?  Please let us know.  We are very open to your advice and suggestion because you are more familiar with the local market than we are.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Comment 8

[Ante Karamatic]

Eh, sorry about that.

Alexa shows generally what's popular in Croatia. Those are search engines, news portals, banks and televisions, porn and dating services. Then there are some specific sites; about cars, cooking, searching jobs, weather and business related sites.

So, bottom line, Amazon shows up on the list, while Algoritam doesn't. Hence, it's ok to put Amazon and eBay in front of Algoritam. So, basically, yes, a standard set of engines :)

Comment 9

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Thanks Ante. So the set of search engines would be:

general search: 
* google
* yahoo

e-commerce:
* Amazon (UK)
* eBay (UK)

specific interest search:
* hr.wikipedia.org
* Creative Commons

One more thing I'd like to add is to ask if there are any good cultural or
linguistic resources (on-line library, dictionary, etc.) that we could include
in the specific interest category. It's OK to have 3 search engines there if we
have a good candidate.

We'll need the UK amazon and ebay plugins, copied from en-GB source. searchplugins/list.txt will have to modified accordingly.

Comment 10

[Ante Karamatic]

eudict.com is great and useful tool (online dictionary). While it isn't professional website, it's among most visited web sites in Croatia.

I'd say that's it. Unless web site about cooking sounds reasonable :)

Comment 11

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Ante, great suggestion about eudict.com. I think it's a good idea to include this engine in our Croatian build. From all of the translation options offered there I'd vote for English->Croatian (with the Croatian interface). What do you think? I wasn't able to find any contact information of the author of this website, Tomislav Kuzmić. His personal website doesn't help, either: http://www.tkuzmic.com/. Do you know him by any chance? Or do you know how we could reach him and ask for the permission to include his search engine in Firefox? 

Regarding the website about cooking: if it's popular and if looking for cooking information on the Web is something popular in Croatia, I guess we can consider this service, too :) But if you're happy with the list above (+ eudict.com), I'd say we're good.

Comment 12

[Ante Karamatic]

Best thing I could find was a javascript function (part of it):

var dot = "."; name = "tom"; tld = "com";
var at = "@"; colon = ":"; addr = "tkuzmic" ; mailto = "mailto";
top.document.location = mailto + colon + name + at + addr + dot + tld;

Since he put an effort in masking his email, I didn't want to unmask it :)

We can skip cooking web site for now.

Comment 13

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Ante, are you testing my javascript foo? :))

Email sent.

Comment 14

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Got a reply from eudict.com. The URL to use is:
http://www.eudict.com/indexHr.php?lang=engcro&word={searchTerms}&client=firefox

There's also an existing plugin already that we can base on: <http://www.eudict.com/plugins/Eng-Cro.xml>. We'll just have to change it to the MozSearch format, as explained on <https://developer.mozilla.org/En/Creating_MozSearch_plugins>

It would be also good to put the parameters from the URL in separate <Param/> elements under <Url/> (there's an example on the MDC page mentioned above).

Let me know if you need any assistance with this. I'll be happy to help out.

Thanks!

Comment 15

[Ante Karamatic]

Attachment: Proposed inclusion of EUdict

OK, this is my first shot on this one. Does this look reasonable?

Comment 16

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Comment on attachment 371028 [details] [diff] [review]
Proposed inclusion of EUdict

Almost perfect :)

>+<SearchForm>English>Croatian</SearchForm>

This should a URL that the user will go to if they click on the magnifying glass icon when the search bar is empty. I guess it should be http://www.eudict.com/indexHr.php ?

I'll create a new version of the patch in a minute.

Comment 17

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Attachment: Patch (adds Amazon UK, eBay UK, Wikipedia HR and EUDict)

Here's a patch that we could use. Ante, do you mind if I land it? I just want to make sure we have this in before the code freeze and that hr opts in for beta4 with the correct revision number.

Comment 18

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Landed on 1.9.1: http://hg.mozilla.org/releases/l10n-mozilla-1.9.1/hr/rev/f2f58363d9e2

I'll update the opt-in revision for 3.5beta4, too.

Ante, can you land it on l10n-central and then close this bug as fixed?

Comment 19

[Ante Karamatic]

Pushed. Sorry for being slow, I'm on a vacation :)

Comment 20

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Thanks Ante! Enjoy your vacation time!