Closed Bug 49908 Opened 25 years ago Closed 25 years ago

edit description text for modern and classic themes

Categories

(SeaMonkey :: Themes, defect, P2)

Product:
SeaMonkey
Component:
Themes
Platform:
x86
Other
Type:
defect

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
VERIFIED FIXED

People

(Reporter: johng, Assigned: bugs)

Details

(Keywords: classic, Whiteboard: [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm++]Fix in hand)

For the Modern and Classic Themes, we need to edit the description text that will appear when you click on a theme. This is essential so users know something about a theme before they apply it and also serves as a way to tell the user how to restore to default settings (vital). Here is a draft of the text for Modern: This is the default theme for Netscape 6. If you want to restore to the original Netscape settings for themes, apply this theme. Here is the draft of the text for Classic: This theme resembles the look of previous versions and will be the most familiar for those upgrading from Netscape Communicator 4.x or Navigator 4.x or earlier. Vera - how about improving this text and then reassigning to ben. If you can't do that this week, let me know.
Since this replaces an earlier nsbeta3+, I will simply mark it nsbeta3+, P1 right now.
Keywords: nsbeta3
Priority: P3 → P1
Whiteboard: [nsbeta3+]
I'll do this. Where is this description text going to be, though? I see no description field in the current theme prefs pane (?)
Assignee: verah → BlakeR1234
Adding 'classic' keyword to bugs dealing with the Classic skin. Please fix any mistakes -- thanks.
Keywords: classic
How's this: Text for Modern: This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting. Text for Classic: This theme resembles previous Netscape versions. It will be most familiar to people upgrading from Netscape Communicator 4.x, Navigator 4.x, or earlier versions.
A bone to pick with the classic text... While classic certainly offers familiarity, the key point is that it offers familiarity with the entire platform, not just previous versions of Navigator. Users of IE, Opera, and any other native application should feel comfortable using it.
Updating QA Contact to pmac@netscape.com
QA Contact: paw → pmac
Would not hold the product for this. Blake, can you get to this? Since not critical - Moving to P3. Adding [PDTP3]
Priority: P1 → P3
Whiteboard: [nsbeta3+] → [nsbeta3+][PDTP3]
I can when text is agreed on. Current text in the product is: - Classic A theme for all Communicator components that simulates a traditional native look and feel. This is the default theme for Mozilla. - Modern A contemporary theme for all Communicator components. -Blue A theme for all communicator components designed to visually integrate with Netscape Netcenter. Is that enough to close this bug? (As a side note, should we be saying 'Communicator' in Mozilla builds, or even in comm builds?)
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
I don't think that the current text as related from Blake is what we're looking for. The suggestions from verah seem closest. My suggestion would be: For modern, use the text verah suggested: This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting. (As mentioned earlier by johng, it is important that we communicate to users how to restore the default setting) For Classic: This theme simulates the look and feel of previous Netscape versions. It will be most familiar to people upgrading from Netscape Communicator 4.x, Navigator 4.x, or earlier versions. While I understand Ben's point about the native component to classic, I don't think average users will even know what we mean if we put it in the description. When we say that it looks like earlier versions, I think that's all they need to hear and they'll expect the rest (i.e. native widgets). Also, we don't want to put any mozilla references in the text, as most users likely won't even know what mozilla is. And I agree that we should leave Communicator out as well (except in reference to earlier versions) - use Netscape 6 to refer to the product. That's my $0.02.
One additional comment - I don't think we're planning on keeping blue in the product once modern is updated, at least that was the impression I was under. If this is correct, we don't need a description for blue.
I like Todd's revision of my text. Can we implement the proposed descriptions and close this?
sure can
Priority: P3 → P1
This still can't be fixed. The suggested text for modern is bad because it gives the user no description about the theme itself. And the Classic text isn't good either for the reason Ben stated on 8/24. Reassigning to Vera for final text.
Assignee: blakeross → verah
Status: ASSIGNED → NEW
Go ahead with what we've settled on: Modern This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting. For Classic: This theme simulates the look and feel of previous Netscape versions. It will be most familiar to people upgrading from earlier Netscape versions. I don't really want to say anything about IE, Opera, or the platforms -- to mention other browsers, we'd have to get permission (and why in the world would they grant it?), and the folks who do the UI for the platforms might not agree with us that Classic is "platform correct." We don't need to actually describe what each theme looks like, because (correct me if I'm wrong) there will be a sample -- a graphic -- right above these blurbs. So we should really just go ahead and make these changes, and close this.
Well, the reason I mentioned the Classic problem is because that's what Ben told me (not because I want to drag this bug on). And since Ben will have to be the one to checkin the patch (since it goes into the comm tree only), this still can't be fixed (unless he caves in). so now you must deal with the Wrath of Ben ;-) reassigning to ben...........................
Assignee: verah → ben
I am happy with the description of Classic in the commercial tree as it exists. I have made the appropriate changes to Modern's description.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 25 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Fixed in all platforms. Windows & Linux: (2000-09-12-08-M18). Mac: (2000-09-12-04-M18). For the Moderna and Classic themes, the description text will appear when you click on a theme would be: Modern This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting. Classic This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting.
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
They have the same text in the description fields? Or is this cut-and-paste gone wild? Ben, are you saying that you won't adopt my UI text because you personally prefer the term "native"? We don't use that term in UI text, help, etc. -- it's not a word that most users will recognize. Please make the change as I've specified. Supposedly, I'm the Last Word on UI text, at least for the commercial version.
Reopening for correct wording to be implemented.
Status: VERIFIED → REOPENED
Resolution: FIXED → ---
As I stated before, and as verah has restated, native will not make sense to the majority of users. The proposed text for Classic will convey this message in terms that our audience will understand.
Gang, it's time to let go of this kind of stuff. Marking P3 and nsbeta3-
Priority: P1 → P3
Whiteboard: [nsbeta3+][PDTP3] → [nsbeta3-][PDTP3]
I know that this seems trivial compared to crashing bugs, and I agree that it probably is, but the text as it exists now sucks. Why, do you ask? Because: 1) Modern description says nothing about it being the default theme for Netscape 6. When users eventually have various skins on various components (a possibility in the relatively near future), they may get to a point where they want to restore defaults to "start fresh." It is unclear how to do that now. 2) Both descriptions reference Communicator, which is the 4.x product, confusing to users. 3) The Classic text mentions the term "native" which end users won't understand, and then says completely unnecessarily (and confusing end users further) that this is the default skin for mozilla. Obviously most end users aren't going to know what Mozilla is at all. Furthermore, it muddies the waters even more with regard to restoring the N6 default theme. 4) The author of the modern theme is not in fact mozilla.org, but netscape. This change seems trivial to do, the only caveat being the L10n UI freeze (hence I've copied Jaime to get his opinion). Any way we can get this in for the RTM product?
Is this text localizable???
Yes, it is. Todd, Mozilla isn't mentioned in any of the Netscape 6 theme descriptions, afaik.
Todd, please clarify in a new comment exactly what the text should be for Modern (and Classic if necessary). Looks too late for nsbeta3, nominating for rtm.
Keywords: rtm
Ummm, I'm using today's build (2000092608) and when I read the text for the classic description, it reads as: A theme for all Communicator components that simulates at traditional native look and feel. This is the default theme for Mozilla.
P2 and rtm+.
Priority: P3 → P2
Whiteboard: [nsbeta3-][PDTP3] → [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm+]
Yep Todd, that needs to be changed to describe to basic users that this looks like their old browser and not confuse them with "default for Mozilla" (most users don't know what Mozilla is). Classic's author is "mozilla.org" which is good, and Modern's author should be Netscape. Todd, please input into this bug what the text (and author, etc) should be for each.
Cut and pasted from verah's earlier comments: Modern Author: Netscape This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting. Classic Author: mozilla.org This theme simulates the look and feel of previous Netscape versions. It will be most familiar to people upgrading from earlier Netscape versions.
Verah said we could look at platform specific ones for Mac and Windows. Verah, please advise.
Yes, Ben and I had a conversation about this. I hadn't realized that we have versions of "Classic" that are distinct for the host operating system. My recommendation is below, but I would like to have Todd's approval before adopting this text. This is as much marketing as UI text. Here's my recommendation: Modern This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting. Classic, Mac OS This theme simulates the traditional look and feel of a Mac OS browser. Classic, Windows This theme simulates the traditional look and feel of a Windows browser.
So I think the point Ben really wants to convey here (correct me if I'm wrong) is the "native" feel of the classic skin in each OS. The proposed text makes it seem like the 4.x look and feel is THE look and feel of a browser in Mac and Windows, which seems shortsighted to me. The 4.x is only one way the browser can look, hence the concept of themes, right? How about something like: Classic, Mac This theme simulates the appearance of previous Netscape versions. It uses visual elements of the Mac OS (spell out operating system?) for a familiar look and feel. Classic, Win This theme simulates the appearance of previous Netscape versions. It uses visual elements of the Windows OS for a familiar look and feel.
I think Todd's text is fine. I like "familiar look and feel." Mac OS should not be spelled out -- the official name of that operating system really is "Mac OS" (note the space... it's not "MacOS"). So, is it settled?
So: Modern Author: Netscape This is the default theme for Netscape 6. Apply this theme if you want to restore the original setting. FOR THE MAC OS VERSION: Classic Author: mozilla.org This theme simulates the appearance of previous Netscape versions. It uses visual elements of the Mac OS for a familiar look. FOR THE WINDOWS VERSION: Classic Author: mozilla.org This theme simulates the appearance of previous Netscape versions. It uses visual elements of the Windows OS for a familiar look. FOR THE LINUX VERSION Classic Author: mozilla.org This theme simulates the appearance of previous Netscape versions. (Note: The word "feel" removed as per John Gable; the skin doesn't actually change the "feel.")
PDT marking [rtm++] but we wonder whether we have to have (tm) markings for Mac and Windows. Can someone check with marketing or legal?
Whiteboard: [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm+] → [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm++]
I will check.
Please make sure these changes are checked-in soon, as they are past the UI freeze date and may affect L10N. Note: UI changes that affect L10N need to be done with the approval of L10N, since we have already passed the UI freeze date.
fix in, branch and trunk.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 25 years ago → 25 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Wait a moment... we are checking with legal, remember? We may not be able to cite the Mac OS and Windows "look" after all. This is serious -- we don't want to infringe on others' copyrights. You'll have to pull this out until we get a ruling from legal.
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: FIXED → ---
Adding msanz, mcarlson, danielmc and laurasl to cc: list.
Jim Bramsom (AOL legal) proposes this wording: Classic This theme simulates the familiar appearance of previous Netscape versions for the Mac OS. Classic This theme simulates the familiar appearance of previous Netscape versions for the Windows operating system. Waiting for Todd Pringle to approve.
OK, let's light a fire under Todd so Ben can land the newer wording. :-)
Whiteboard: [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm++] → [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm++] Waiting on approval of wording
So, who's got matches? I'll call him.
This wording is okay with me...
International okay with us landing these changes?
todd: see bug 54957 -- these strings aren't localizable anyways.
Michele/Montse - Is L10N ok with landing these chnages?
They are not localizable NOW, but they have to be before RTM. Anyway, approving the change, please land it asap.
Ben will land it tonight (Thursday).
Whiteboard: [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm++] Waiting on approval of wording → [nsbeta3-][PDTP3][rtm++]Fix in hand
These new changes have been checked in to the branch and the trunk. Marking fixed.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 25 years ago → 25 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Classic This theme simulates the familiar appearance of previous Netscape versions for the Mac OS. Classic This theme simulates the familiar appearance of previous Netscape versions for the Windows operating system. Call me a stickler for english, but the need to even specify the operating system is redundant. The user, even a novice, knows if they are using a Mac OS, or Windows. The original point of the message changed by AOL legal was to state that the widgetting and windowing elements used were native to that OS, which isn't even evident in the re-write, or in my humble opinion, even needed in the first place, so why make bother with 2 differing strings? Just another complication of maintaining code for multiple OS's... KISS, keep it simple stupid :)
Verify ok on all platforms(2000-10-06-09-MN6).
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
Product: Core → SeaMonkey
You need to log in before you can comment on or make changes to this bug.