501033 - KB article: How websites know where you are

Status: RESOLVED INVALID

(support.mozilla.org :: Knowledge Base Articles, task)

Description

[Chris Ilias [:cilias]]

This was discussed a bit during Support Firefox Day. Even without location aware browsing, websites use your IP address to determine your general location. We need an article explains what is going on, and how it differs from location aware browsing.

Comment 1

[Ricardo Maçãs [:Ricmacas]]

Err, about the title... I'm not sure if i like website as a plural noun.
How websites know where you are OR How a website knows where you are.
I prefer those two.
My 2 cts.

Comment 2

[Milos Dinic [:Milos]]

Shouldn`t that be 'knows'? It`s third person, it(website)...
About the article, I thought of that too, and I may help with this one tomorow. I`ll write a paragraph or two on this topic tomorow.

Comment 3

[Tobias (:Tobbi) Markus]

I think plural sounds better here.

Comment 4

[David Tenser [:djst]]

Not sure if I like the title at all. Why not have an article that explains Geolocation, how Firefox 3.5 works in this regard, and then have a section called something like "How websites can guess your location without using Geolocation"?

The article could then be called something like "Location-Aware Browsing" (which is the term used in the Firefox features page) or "How Location-Aware Browsing works" and make sure the tag "geolocation" is also searchable.

Comment 5

[Tanner Filip [:tanner]]

I'll take this one, with some help of TMZ, Tobbi, and Ricmacas...

Comment 6

[Tanner Filip [:tanner]]

Reassigning to Ricmacas, Tom, Tobbi, and I will help though.

Comment 7

[Ricardo Maçãs [:Ricmacas]]

https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Location-Aware+Browsing <-- main article.

On "How websites locate you without Location-Aware browsing", we link to:

https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Geolocating+by+IP+Address

^^ Which is the system used to locate you without notice. There's also a note that Firefox also uses this system when using Location-Aware, but only at your request.

Done. Please feel free to modify anything. Opensource FTW.

Comment 8

[Tanner Filip [:tanner]]

This needs to be approved, although, Noah is looking over it atm...

Comment 9

[Chris Ilias [:cilias]]

Can you get this done in half the word count, and in one article?
For example, the mozilla.com page about this feature is <http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/geolocation/>. To me, it seems shorter and more useful. (Heck, the last two sections don't need to be covered on sumo)

In the sumo article,
- It's not clear what geolocation is.
- It doesn't explain what an IP address is.
- If I step back to get my first impression of the article, it's just paragraphs of text. No instruction. No examples.
- The headings look the same, but with slightly different wording, which makes it even more difficult to tell what each section is about.
- The first section says that Location-Aware browsing is a privacy risk. How is it a privacy risk; and why does the mozilla.com page say "and is done in a way that totally respects your privacy"?
- Also note that it takes four lines of text to say that it is a privacy risk. <http://blog.mozilla.com/sumo/2009/04/09/writing-concise-documents/> needs to be applied to this article.

You can avoid repeating the same info by treating it like layers of info, where you need to understand one thing before you can read the next. For instance:
1. Note how some sites can tell what city you are in.
2. Explain how that is usually done.
3. Explain what Location-Aware browsing is. (if the user has read the previous section, all you need to explain is how this is different)
4. Explain what happens when you visit a Location-Aware supported site, and what to do.

Comment 10

[Ricardo Maçãs [:Ricmacas]]

Q:- The first section says that Location-Aware browsing is a privacy risk. How is
it a privacy risk; and why does the mozilla.com page say "and is done in a way
that totally respects your privacy"? 

A: "it is also a privacy risk, as the information can also be used for marketing, fraud, or other harmful purposes."
cilias: You can tell when a webpage asks you your position, but you cant tell what they use it for.

Q:4. Explain what happens when you visit a Location-Aware supported site, and
what to do. 
A:"How to use Location-Aware Browsing" should be clear enough. If you mean there should be images, you can upload them or anyone else. We foccused in writing.

Q: - It doesn't explain what an IP address is.
A: The idea is to keep it simple, so we tell people to visit https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/Geolocating%20by%20IP%20Address for a complete paragraph with "Understanding the IP address"

Q: 1. Note how some sites can tell what city you are in.
A: "Usually, it locates you at a city-level,"

Q: "Explain what Location-Aware browsing is. (if the user has read the previous
section, all you need to explain is how this is different)"
A: "How Firefox enhances the Geolocation experience" - that does it for me.
It simply tells the user its more accurante and it offers more control over its location. Isnt that what we meant?

Q: - It's not clear what geolocation is.
A: Yeap. We need to fix that. We also removed any reference to ISP because of that.

Q: - The headings look the same, but with slightly different wording, which makes
it even more difficult to tell what each section is about.
A: Err, probably we should fix the wording in the sections.

Q:- If I step back to get my first impression of the article, it's just
paragraphs of text. No instruction. No examples.
A:If by examples you mean screenshots, refer to above ^^.

As always, you're welcome to fix anything by your own. If you dont find "geolocation" clear, Find and Replace is your friend. Seriously, I can't fix this atm.

Comment 11

[Chris Ilias [:cilias]]

Ricmacas, do you want to arrange a time to chat over IRC about this article?

Comment 12

[Ricardo Maçãs [:Ricmacas]]

Cool! A colaborative session! I would love to have your help, damn, Yes!

I'm sort of busy but I'm flexible (summer vacations means you can organize your time as you want). I'm sure you have a tighter schedule, so I would rather let you program the time and date ok?

So please, give me:
- your best time between 2pm and 7pm WEST (GMT+1), everyday but sunday;
- (optional [1]) the estimated duration of the session (if you have any planned ideas for us to discuss, for example, you can estimate how long would it take to discuss and implement them).

[1] but would REALLY help me. thx in advance.

Regards,
Ricardo.

Comment 13

[Scoobidiver (away)]

According to https://support.mozilla.com/en-US/kb/how-the-knowledge-base-works, article requests are no longer tracked in Bugzilla.

Reporter, if you consider your request is still applicable, post a new thread describing the content with "[Proposed] Name of the article" as title in https://support.mozilla.com/forums/knowledge-base-articles

I close this bug as invalid.