Closed Bug 50349 (killsbabies) Opened 22 years ago Closed 17 years ago

back out XBL


(Core :: XBL, defect, P5)






(Reporter: bugs, Assigned: hyatt)




(Whiteboard: [Hixie-PF] need tar, feathers. [xbl1.0])


(1 file)

XBL is causing numerous problems including the death of babies. I ask you, how
many more babies need to die before this bug is fixed?

The only solution I can see is to cvs remove layout/xbl from the build.
I couldn't agree more.  We already have XML, why the hell do we need this silly 
XBL junk also?  Just mass change the "b" to an "m" wherever "XBL" is used, and 
problem solved.  In fact, I'd even be willing to do the mass change.  Just let 
me know.

(Note that you could also change the "b" to a "u" to make "XUL", but changing 
to "m" would be easier because it's closer to "b" on the standard QWERTY 

I may file a bug soon requesting that the use of XUL be removed, and converted 
to XML instead (U -> M)
Severity: normal → critical
OS: Linux → All
Priority: P3 → P1
Hardware: PC → All
twiddling some of the select widgets
'u', 'b' and 'm' are equidistant on my keyboard; maybe I should do it instead?
It isn't XBL that is an abomination.  It is the Classic skin.  The Concorde 
crash happened because the plane's user interface was not set to "Modern" or 
"Blue".  The sheer blandness of the conservative interface led to pilot error 
that resulted in the deaths of hundreds.

How many more innocent people have to die before you rectify this tragic error 
and consign this disgustingly boring and hideously ugly skin to the trash heap 
of history?

Updating the summary to reflect the true problem, and reassigning to the owner 
of the aforementioned abomination.
Assignee: hyatt → ben
Summary: back out XBL → back out the Classic skin, you irresponsible Kiwi
Given the choice between saving a handful of fat german tourists, and the babies
of the world, I think we all know what we'd pick. Reassigning back to the
correct owner and setting the summary back to what it was.

Hixie, Blake, I don't know what to say. Perhaps try danm's screwed up keyboard?
Assignee: ben → hyatt
Summary: back out the Classic skin, you irresponsible Kiwi → back out XBL
copying danm for comment. 
This feature-creep is getting silly, and is pissing me off.  Get rid of the 
User Interface, X*L, gecko, necko, and all this other unnecessary bloat, and 
let's close up this bug.  
Summary: back out XBL → back out the bloat in mozilla {UI, X*L, gecko, etc.}
Summary: back out the bloat in mozilla {UI, X*L, gecko, etc.} → back out XBL
I'm voting the Classic skin off the island.  It's been sunning itself naked 
again, and that's something I just shouldn't be subjected to.
Assignee: hyatt → ben
Summary: back out XBL → kick the Classic skin off the island
Everyone, hyatt's previous comments were nothing more than a CBS stunt. The real 
winner can only be decided by a game of numbers. 

Assignee: ben → hyatt
Summary: kick the Classic skin off the island → kick the XBL off the island
Whiteboard: need tar, feathers.
XBL may be killing babies, but the Classic skin is responsible for widespread 
sterility.  It must be put down like a mangy cur.
Assignee: hyatt → ben
Summary: kick the XBL off the island → put down the Classic skin
Really, the best thing we could do to cut down on unnecessary features in Mozilla 
is to get rid of not XBL, or the Classic skin, but the Back button.

The existence of a Back button is absurd; if the user has decided to follow a 
link, why are they going to want to change their mind? Allowing the user to go 
back to the previous page makes reliable Web apps more difficult to program, as 
well as encouraging indecision on the part of users. And removing it would make 
valuable space available on the Navigation Toolbar for that all-important Print 
Summary: put down the Classic skin → Get rid of the Back button
accepting, targetting. 
Target Milestone: --- → M19
OTOH, a Print button encourages the use of scarce rainforest resources for a
very outdated medium that should have disappeared from our offices ten years ago...
Restoring to original summary, and reassigning. Never mind the killing of 
babies or German tourists -- if XBL is so lamely designed that it can't be used 
to draw CSS-stylable HTML form controls, then countless hundreds of 
milliseconds will be tragically lost every time a user tries to find a form 
control on a page, when they could have spent those milliseconds watching 
`Survivor' instead. XBL obviously deserves to die a slow, painful death.
Assignee: ben → hyatt
Summary: Get rid of the Back button → back out XBL
XBL is quite capable of being used for HTML form controls, but countless fat 
German tourists will perish in the process.  Is it worth it?  You be the judge.

tab completing to layout/xul/ when in layout/ is now problematic as there are 
several x* directories directly under layout (xsl, xml, xbl, all before xul). 
This is reducing efficiency in navigating the source tree. Backing out XBL would 
certainly help. 
(It has been suggested that an interim workaround to this might be to rename XBL 
to xvl, xxl or some such, but that should not be seen as a fix that satisfies 
the requirements of this bug. Such fixes have the effect of patching a symptom 
and may be acceptable to certain commercial branded releases, but have no place 
in the Mozilla trunk). 
Is something a problem when there's no one who thinks it is?

I think the new directory name should be 

hyatt: there's an alternative fix...

Problems only exist because there are people to experience them. If you remove
all elements which perceive XBL as a problem, your problem will simply cease to

I think we can re-use the baby killing code for that... Add some logic to
identify people who want XBL backed out and hook it up. Perhaps put in some AI
for behaviour prediction to detect elements most likely to want XBL backed out
even though they don't yet know it themselves, and I think we're set.
I reject all of the recent suggestions by David and Jag. I also suggest that 
they keep their suggestions to themselves unless they are constructive and 
address the issue at hand. Netscape 6.0 has alread shipped with the 
abomination, which may make it hard to deprecate easily, but it's continued 
existence is a pollution of the humanity's namespace, and it must be destroyed. 
QA Contact: jrgm → ben
Just what I'd expect from someone who can't distinguish between "it's" and
I retract my previous comment. I realize that this was a typo on Ben's part. 

Now, let's talk about backing out XBL. 
Nice.  And you're a malicious hacker who uses Bugzilla accounts like cheap
hookers for your own amusement.
Moving M19 milestone to mozilla0.9; M19 is about to be retired.

David: Talking to yourself is not healthy you know.

Ben: I have changed my mind. I don't think we should back out XBL, doing so 
would mean I had a dozen or so redundant test cases. I think instead we should
make XBL much more complicated so that I can make an XBL evil test suite and
make David tear his hair out, which surely would be much more fun.
Keywords: testcase
Target Milestone: M19 → mozilla0.9
Ian, I was under the impression that your testcases applied to a competing yet
more noble technology known as Zibble? Tell me it ain't so!

Keywords: testcase
Target Milestone: mozilla0.9 → M19
Clearly XBL is inferior to XUL because of its vastly dull and boring namespace:

This technology is simply a loser from the start. It doesn't even have the basic 
decency to advertise its presence with a '.xbl' file name extension. Think how 
many countless man hours will be wasted checking that *.xml in the mozilla tree 
actually contains the work of the Abomnible XUL Man (aka Hyatt) before we have 
managed to delete it all.
Priority: P1 → P5
Target Milestone: --- → Future
nominating for nsbeta1.
Keywords: nsbeta1
this bug is critical for XBL 1.0
Whiteboard: need tar, feathers. → need tar, feathers. [xbl1.0]
I went into layout/xbl, and I see nothing.  It looks like jst has fixed this bug
for us!

Marking fixed.  The baby-killer has been removed.
Closed: 21 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Dave, apparently on IRC the other night you said you had big news about XBL but 
did not say what it was.  Fill us all in ...
VERIFIED. XBL is no longer there. (So why am I killing myself writing this UI
spec, anyway??? Sheesh.)
I reveled alongside everyone else, then with dismay discovered content/xbl. It 
appears hyatt has seen fit to hide his code in an effort to fool us. Well, I'm 
no fool. Reopening.
Resolution: FIXED → ---
You got me. Accepting. 
content/xbl is something totally different.  it stands for

eXterminate BenGoodger Language

It is something totally different... a lurking booby trap for the unwary.

Closed: 21 years ago21 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Instead of backing out XBL, or renaming it XVL, why not rename it XFL and have 
Jesse Ventura re-write all of the comments to reflect a more "behind-the-scenes" 
view of XBL.  Shortly, you'll have self-backing-out code.
Regardless of what XBL stands for, it must be backed out. The three letters "X", 
"B" and "L" when combined create an acronym that is just designed for the 
destruction of innocent babies. I'm sorry David, I have to reopen otherwise my 
conscience will not be clear. 
Resolution: FIXED → ---
I think I located the problem. You are leaking an nsIBabyKiller instance in

I have a patch in hand, but I am not going to submit it because of global
I hate to ask this, but being a total novice as to what XBL is, is this a 
serious thread or an inside joke?
Hey, who are you trolling for? This bug is serious. Because of its baby-killing 
side effect, it causes Mozilla to be treated as a munition, which the U.S. won't 
allow us to ship outside the country. And wise it is for feeling that way. I 
mean, who'd want to be responsible for another Atlantis? Maybe MozillaUser@ will 
get off his high moral perch and post his patch now, eh?
In all fairness, XBL crashes enough for that not to be an issue. The killing
babies is only a theoretical objection, in practice you can't get to that part
of the code because of the lack of any null-checks.
Whiteboard: need tar, feathers. [xbl1.0] → [Hixie-PF] need tar, feathers. [xbl1.0]
If XBL kills babies, but Mozilla can't be exported from the US, it will kill
American babies only, and fat Germans nazis wearing leather trousers will take
over the world.
*monotone voice*

disregard my last comment.  the men in black have revealed to me the alien 
species responsible for ex-bee-ell...  they also provided me with this funny 
white coat with the arms stitched to my back... @^@
Can someone remind me why the baby-killing part is bad?
We need babies now so we can have QA testers for 2.0.
The following URL might be helpful:

Blocks: 104166
Hyatt informs me that due to his recent XBL Resource changes, XBL now only 
maims babies. How he verified this, I'm not sure, but I think I should call the 
As a new moz hacker, I must ask this question: will using XBL get me 
arrested? 'cause like I could do without beung up for baby murder charges. It 
would kinda be a worry if i was killing the world's babies.

But, don't tell the Chinese government, otherwise they'll make all their 
subjects code in XBL.
remove self
Well, if we don't back it out, we should at least rename it, I think.

After all, when you put XBL, XUL and JavaScript together, you get an acronym or
California license plate like "JS+XBUL".  Which can spell out to "JuS+ eXtra BUL".

Alias: killsbabies
I suggest WONTFIX. We should keep XBL and update it once the W3C releases XBL 2.0.
Wontfix a bug which kills babies, my god are you insane? ;-)
XBL kills babies.
W3C standard XBL 2.0 kills ALL babies.
Shouldn't it be Invalid? What does that bug mean? A joke?
With all the changes made to XBL since this bug was filed, XBL can not longer
actualy hurt babies, only adults. WORKSFORME.
Closed: 21 years ago17 years ago
Resolution: --- → WORKSFORME
Depends on: 379644
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