56811 - Default install path to home dir

Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX

(SeaMonkey :: Installer, defect, P3)

Description

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

<quote src="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41057">
------- Additional Comments From David Krause 2000-10-15 16:53 -------

There's enough Netscape people cc'ed on this bug that I'm just going to put this
here.  We need to also do something similar for Mozilla so this is relevant to
bugzilla.  Someone from Netscape please open a bug for this in bugscape.  I'm
even going to attach this patch to make it clearer.  This message needs to be in
notes that you see when you install not just in the relnotes.  We should change
the default install location for the mozilla installer also.

diff -u netscape-installer/README netscape-installer.new/README
--- netscape-installer/README	Fri Sep 29 13:25:33 2000
+++ netscape-installer.new/README	Sun Oct 15 18:52:52 2000
@@ -64,6 +64,12 @@
 exit all programs before running the setup program. Also, you
 should temporarily disable virus-detection software.

+If installing Netscape 6 on a multi-user operating system such as
+Linux, Unix, or Windows 2000, you should install it separately in
+the user directory of each user who plans to use the program.  If
+you install Netscape in a shared write-protected directory, it may
+not run properly.
+
 Install into a clean (new) directory. Installing on top of released
 product builds may cause problems.

diff -u netscape-installer/config.ini netscape-installer.new/config.ini
--- netscape-installer/config.ini	Tue Oct  3 17:50:54 2000
+++ netscape-installer.new/config.ini	Sun Oct 15 18:54:08 2000
@@ -1,7 +1,7 @@
 ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------
 [General]
 ;-------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Default Location=/usr/local/netscape
+Default Location=$HOME/netscape
 ; *** LOCALIZE ME BABY ***
 Title=Netscape Installer
</quote>

This patch makes a lot of sense to me *right now*..

Currently, the installer defaults to a patch that will not work. What sense does
this make?

I prefer the wording
<quote src="http://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=41057">
"If you install Netscape in a shared write-protected directory, it may not run
properly. So, if you install Netscape 6 on a multi-user operating system such as
Linux, Unix or Windows 2000, you should install it separately in the user
directory of each user who plans to use the program." (Note: no comma between
"Unix" and "or".)
</quote>

Also, we might want to use ~/netscape (instead of &HOME/netscape) as default
dir. I *think*, the former has a better chance to work.

Since mozilla.org also distributes installer binaries, I looked at the source
tree, but all I found was
<quote src="mozilla/xpinstall/wizard/unix/src2/config.ini">
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------
[General]
;-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Default Location=/u/sgehani/foo
Title=Le Mozilla Installer
</quote>
:-(. So, could anybody with access to Netscape properitery stuff please try to
get something like David's patch in?

Comment 1

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Please get this in for RTM. It wokrs around many problems in bugs 42184 and
41057. I install/run the Mozilla bins as the user who will run them all the
time, and I have no problems with these bugs.

Comment 2

[tenthumbs]

Is this really going to help for most Linux users. They will probably just use
their distribution's binary package. This won't do anything for the packagers.

Comment 3

[R.K.Aa.]

You can't install to users home-directory. This is a big program and the idea of
sharing installations of those is one of the big ideas behind multiuser systems.

I'd much prefer that the binary was installed in a directory user normally has
in a PATH statement (usr/local/bin for instance) and that the rest of it was in
/usr/local/bin/mozilla AND that mozilla was aware of where the rest of itself
was, so no further path settings would be required.

THe problem with the installation as is, is that files created during
POST-install don't land in user-directories. That they should. All other app's
i've seen that create files AFTER an initial startup, place these in the user
directory.

Comment 4

[tenthumbs]

Acknowledging the fact the mozilla doesn't uniderstand Unix file semantics just
makes mozilla look even more stupid than usual. Would you trust an app like this?

Comment 5

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> the idea of
> sharing installations of those is one of the big ideas behind multiuser systems.

I agree, but... it doesn't *work* for Mozilla right now, see bug 41057 and bug
42184.

> THe problem with the installation as is, is that files created during
> POST-install don't land in user-directories. That they should.

Agreed. Will you fix it within the next 2 days and convince PDT to take your
patch for N6.0? If not, let's get this workaround in until the real bugs are
fixed and sharing Mozilla installions works.

Comment 6

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> Would you trust an app like this?

No, but I wouldn't trust N6.0 anyway ;-P.

Comment 7

[R.K.Aa.]

It is far better to do this the right way when it's all fixed, and for now relnote:

1: the fact that an initial startup of all modules as root is required before
normal users on the system can run mozilla sufficiently
2: the fact that mozilla isn't placed in a directory the system normally provide
a PATH for, so a PATH statement must be manually added in the users preferred
profile.

If the installation directory as such is moved to users home directories, there
will be "tears before bedtime", as they used to call it in a certain computer
magazine. A perfect disaster. Heaps of users will run out of space. A typical
home directory on many systems basically provide only enough space for a
collection of rc files. You will often see /usr/people/.. or /home/...
partitions set up as 50 MB partitions for instance. Blowing mozilla on a couple
of user accounts there borders to.. terrorism >:/

As much as i accnowledge there is a fundamental problem with file arrangements
as per today, it must NOT be done like you suggest. "Nevah nevah nevah".

Comment 8

[tenthumbs]

1) Actually, if one user runs mozilla at least once, then any user can use that
copy.

2) Putting a shell script somewhere along the default path handles the issue
of fonding mozilla quite nicely.

3)  More important than the disk quota issue is the shared library issue. Each
user will use his or her own private copy of all those *.so files. Since mozilla
often blotas up to 50MB wheh I read one mail message, I can just imagine the fun when
three users try it.

4) I don't trust Netscape 6 either. :-) I do believe that one can make a shared
mozilla work right now as long as you don't want psm (badly broken for other
reasons) or want to install xpi packages. It's better than nothing.

Comment 9

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> You will often see /usr/people/.. or /home/...
> partitions set up as 50 MB partitions for instance.

Users are not that dumb. If they don't have enough space, they will select
another path that works for them.

How many *real* multi-user systems are out there today? I'd guess that most
(>50%) systems are desktops anyway, and desktops are usually not short on
diskspace (not even in the home dir).

dark,
1. Most users don't read release notes before install.
2. What do you want to say in the release notes? Maybe 'If you are on Unix,
don't install in a shared directory. We know, we default to such a directory in
the Unix installer, but we are wrong. Change it.'?

Comment 10

[Daniel Veditz [:dveditz]]

I can't see the PDT approving this based on other P3 rejections. If this is a
strong requirement please have the PDT comment in this bug that they are open to
accepting this before I have Sean go off and waste time coming up with a patch.

Comment 11

[R.K.Aa.]

If the visability of a README or relnote isn't high enough, provide the required
info in the dialog that states "installation complete".

A two- or three-liner there, about the need for a post-installation one-time run
of the modules as the user you installed as, in order to register components,
before common users can run Mozilla.

Note that it is NOT enough to only start the browser. If installed - Composer
must also be ran once. Strangely enough. If it isn't started once, the entry for
Composer in preferences will appear blank.


(The real problem, is the current approach where files are created after
installation. THey should all be created at installtime - not after.
The installation should honor the selected components "on the fly".
THen it would suffice with just a few lines somewhere in user's dir's to state
what is *actually* installed of components and not. But that is what bug 41057
is about.)

Comment 12

[David Krause]

I don't think that moving this to the home directory by default should cause
disk space problems.  I see three different cases here.

Basic single-user workstation:
Joe Blo user just installed linux on his computer.  He wants to try out the new
web browser.  He downloads it, runs the installer, picks all the defaults and
expects everything to work without any problems.  If it doesn't then he gets
upset and probably doesn't have the ability to fix the problem.  These type of
users probably have lots of disk space in /home for mp3s, movies, documents, etc.

Advanced single-user workstation:
Experienced linux user downloads it and runs the installer.  He may not pick the
defaults and he will pick the location where he wants it to install.  If he has
problems he will read the newsgroups, run strace, search bugzilla, etc. as
several people I have talked to have done.

Multi-user workstation:
This would most likely be done by a system administrator.  The home directories
would be too small for even one copy of the browser.  He will install it in his
preferred location ignoring whatever we have the default set to.  The same thing
will happen as above, maybe even more so.   Using strace, newsgroups, web,
bugzilla, etc they will most likely be able to figure out a solution.

Comment 13

[tenthumbs]

David Krause: I think you're missing the point (or I am). Most Linux
distributions have some sort of system wide package management system. The vast
majority of users will just use the distribution's packages and its manager.
Usually, the distribution docs warn against installing anything outside the
management scheme so most users never do that.

Essentially, this means that only advanced users and system administrators
actually install mozilla. This is the audience that should be addressed.

Comment 14

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Package managers won't use the installer.

Comment 15

[Sean Su]

reassigning to Samir.

Comment 16

[Samir Gehani]

Over to Syd for installer bug triage

Comment 17

[Grace Bush]

nominating for MachV- and changing milestone-
Syd,

this seems to be at the crux of current Linux installer issues.

from first comment..."Currently, the installer defaults to a patch that will not 
work. What sense does this make?"
see also bug 58499

Comment 18

[Syd Logan]

While I don't agree this is good for end users, mozilla can do what they like.
Netscape is going to stay with /usr/local, and will not change the commercial
version of the config.ini.

Comment 19

[Syd Logan]

While I don't agree this is good for end users, mozilla can do what they like.
Netscape is going to stay with /usr/local, and will not change the commercial
version of the config.ini.

Comment 20

[Grace Bush]

verified