57126 - Need 2 dialogs if advanced account prefs required

Status: VERIFIED WORKSFORME

(SeaMonkey :: MailNews: Account Configuration, enhancement, P3)

Description

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

"Need 2 dialogs if advanced account prefs required" or "Account Wizard madness"

Reproduce:
Try to set up an UQ-IMAP server.

Actual result:
You can do File|New|Account or "New Account" in the Account Manager or you open
Mailnews with a fresh profile. In all cases, you get into the Account Wizard. It
doesn't offer advanced IMAP setting like the mail dir. After finishing the
Account Wizard, you either
- have to go to the Account Manager [again] and set the advanced IMAP settings
- forget the above and directly open the new account. Mailnews downloads all
files and folders in your home dir on the server, not just the mail folders.

Expected result:
Either
- the Account Wizard offers all possibly required settings being an "Advanced"
or similar button or
- "New Account" in the Account Manager doesn't go to the Wizard, but gives
another way to set up the account, possibly just creating a dummy account and
letting the user set up the account directly in the Account Manager.

Does Jen still work for Netscape? If not, please add her successor to cc.

Comment 1

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

- or add a checkbox to the very last (summary) pane of the Account Wizard to
open the Account Manager, if not already open.
(The 2. and 3. suggestion don't exclude each other.)

Comment 2

[Alec Flett]

No, this is so wrong. I've said this before and I'll say it again. The intent of
the account wizard is to set up the account with as little clutter as possible,
and to set up 90% of users. The other 10% of users go to the Account Manager.

It is working as designed, so WORKSFORME. This discussion has happened at length
many times over the past year on newsgroups and IRC, and it always resolves to
"People with advanced settings will figure out what to do"

Comment 3

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

alecf, you count me as advanced user, not? It happened many times (>50%) that I
forgot to add the IMAP mail dir pref (see above), when I used the Account Wizard
that came up after the first start.

What's wrong with suggestion 3? One checkbox, disabled by default, won't hurt.

mpt, what do you think?

Comment 4

[Alec Flett]

there are a million "one little <insert UI here>" that we could add to the
wizard.. believe me this is not the first.

Let's be honest here - how often does the average user set up a given account?
once... maybe twice if something goes horribly wrong...

Your personal issue of forgetting the IMAP directory is something that you
encounter alot because you're setting up accounts fairly often, because you're a
developer...

Comment 5

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

> there are a million "one little <insert UI here>" that we could add to the
> wizard.. believe me this is not the first.

I did not ask to add "a little textbox for the mail dir" or even "a little
"Advanced..." box for IMAP", but to give the option to open *all* of them at once.

How can you reject that as "litter", if so many installers have "open readme"
and similar options on the last pane?

> Your personal issue of forgetting the IMAP directory is something that you
> encounter alot because you're setting up accounts fairly often, because you're
> a developer...

But the percentage (which is what was important here) can only increase, if I'm
not an developer, right?

Comment 6

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

What do I think? I agree with Microsoft and Apple on this one.

Microsoft:
|
| Use a wizard to supplement rather than replace the user's direct ability to
| perform a specific task. Unless the task is fairly simple or is done
| infrequently, experienced users may find that a wizard can be inefficient or
| does not provide them with sufficient access to all functionality.
|
<http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?URL=/library/books/winguide/
ch13h.htm>

(Note that setting up an account is only done infrequently at the moment because 
current user interfaces make it so difficult; if it was easier, Internet cafe 
customers would be able to set up temporary accounts in Mozilla instead of having 
to put up with the poor usability of Webmail services.)

Apple:
|
| Assistants are meant to augment and not replace the more direct ways to control
| your application. They shouldn't be used to cover up a flawed user interface
| design, such as dialog boxes or commands that are too difficult to figure out.
| Users should always be able to do directly in the program's primary interface
| whatever an assistant does for them indirectly, though it might take more steps
| to accomplish the task in the primary interface.
|
<http://developer.apple.com/dev/techsupport/develop/issue27/arcellana.html>

At the very least, an `Advanced ...' button on the first page of the wizard could 
close the wizard and open the Account Settings dialog for direct entry of the 
account information. Forcing the user to go through an entire wizard and *then* 
go into a dialog, in order to do something as simple as include the 
`Organization' field in their e-mail account, is very bad manners.

Comment 7

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Matthew, what do these guidelines suggest for the case where several options are
*required*?

Comment 8

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

They don't say anything about that, but I don't think that an assistant should 
offer everything which *might* be required for a few users -- e.g. an assistant 
for setting up your Web preferences wouldn't provide fields for proxy server 
info, even though entering that info might be absolutely necessary for some users 
(like me).

In such cases, instead of using the assistant, the user should be able to go 
straight to the normal interface; in Mozilla, they cannot.

Comment 9

[Alec Flett]

do you realize that the time you guys have spent researching and arguing about
this, you could have opened the account manager 100 times.

We're not talking about the use of the wizard as it relates to "augment and not
replace the more direct ways to control your application" so the microsoft and
apple arguments are completely irrelevant to this bug. This bug is about
cluttering up the Account Wizard. No where in apple or microsoft's documentation
does it say "thou shalt put advanced buttons or checkboxes in thy wizards"

Comment 10

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Given that the number of Mozilla users who will need to specify stuff that isn't 
in the wizard is much greater than 100, it's still better for us to spend the 
time changing it now than it is for them to have to spend the time putting up 
with it later.

You are correct in saying that Apple and Microsoft do not require an Advanced 
button in wizards. That's because they require the program to provide a more 
direct interface in addition to the wizard. Mozilla does not do this -- there is 
no way of setting up an account other than by using the wizard. Providing an 
Advanced button on the first page of the wizard would be an adequate *specific* 
short-term solution to this flaw.

Comment 11

[laurel]

Marking verified (worksforme) based on alec's last comments.