57266 - News subscribe dialog should not block you from using the Web Browser

Status: NEW

(SeaMonkey :: MailNews: Message Display, defect)

Description

[Hervé Renault]

i can't understand why this window should be modal. fetching the server
newsgroups list can be very long on 56K modem and you can't browse meanwhile.

some fellow on #mozillazine told me it's because 4.x behaves this way but i
don't think this is a good reason.

Comment 1

[timeless]

you're right, that reason sucks.

Comment 2

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

one reason to make the subscribe dialog modal was simplicity.

making it non-modal would require:

1) prevent the user from launching 2 subscribe dialogs
2) handle the case where the user quits mail, or quits the app while the dialogs
is up.
3) if the user adds a new account while the subscribe dialog is up, and then
that new server (if subscribable) has to show up in the server list.
4) update the subscribe / unsubscribe status of a newsgroup (or folder) in the
subscribe dialog if the user auto subscribes, or unsubscribes from it in the
three pane.

etc.

I'm not saying it's impossible to solve these problems, just that making the
dialog modal made it so I didn't have to for 6.0

jglick may be able to add other reasons for (and against) making the subscribe
dialog non-modal.

Comment 3

[Hervé Renault]

sure, it's not trivial. but i think it's worth it, because fetching the groups
list can take something like 5-10 minutes on a modem, and this is far too long
when you just want to subscribe to one group or a few groups.

Comment 4

[jglick]

I think Seth's points are valid. In addition, the information you enter on the 
Subscription dialog directly affects what newsgroups are displayed in the Folder 
Pane. If the subscribe dialog is modeless, then as soon as the user subscribes 
to a new newsgroup, should it appear in the folder pane? Or not until the user 
has clicked "OK"? Generally in modeless dialogs, actions take affect right away.

I don't have a problem going with modeless if folks feel strongly about it, 
but I think we need to have good solutions to these issues if we go this 
route.

mpt, any comments?

Comment 5

[Hervé Renault]

stop me if i'm wrong (i don't have Moz here yet, so i can't verify if this 

already available) but i think then we should just be able to subscribe to any 

group without having to fetch the entire list ?! it would be a lot simpler. keep 

the subscribe window modal, BUT give us a way to enter the precise newsgroup we 

want straight away. isn't it way easier to implement ?

Comment 6

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

we have that feature, it is called autosubscribe.

to use it, type in a news url in the location bar, or click on a news link.

like news://news.mozilla.org/netscape.public.mozilla.mail-news

Comment 7

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

In 4.x for Mac OS, the subscribe dialog doesn't know quite what it is. It is
non-modal, but it has `Ok' and `Cancel' buttons instead of a close box, and 
changes are not applied until one of those two buttons is pressed. Whatever you 
do, *don't* do that. It makes the dialog look modal when it really isn't, causes 
confusion about when changes in the dialog will be reflected in the other 
windows, and violates the Macintosh HIGs all over the place.

I would prefer going for a proper non-modal subscribe dialog (i.e. one with a 
close box instead of `Ok' and `Cancel' buttons). A group would appear/disappear 
in open three-pane windows as soon as the relevant checkbox was checked/unchecked 
in the dialog. A group's checkbox would become unchecked if the user chose 
`Unsubscribe' from the group's context menu in the three-pane. And the server 
menu would update if an account was added/deleted elsewhere. Yes, it would be 
annoying to implement, but it would be nicer for the user.

Comment 8

[Jesse Ruderman]

Dup of bug 43288?

Comment 9

[laurel]

*** Bug 43288 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 10

[[e-mail] (gone - use [e-mail] instead)]

Taking as QA contact.

Comment 11

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

*** Bug 41470 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 12

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

If possible, you could make the dialog modal to the Mailnews 3pane only
(ignoring the fact that there can be several 3panes) as an interim solution. It
doesn't raise any of the problems you mentioned, but still allows me to browse.
If this is not possible, then this is a bug on its own.

Comment 13

[Hervé Renault]

> If possible, you could make the dialog modal to the Mailnews 3pane only

i agree. that would be a good solution, imo.

Comment 14

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Note that this was only intended as short-term solution - in the long term, I'd
like to read my mail, while it downloads the newsgroup list.

> 3) if the user adds a new account while the subscribe dialog is up, and then
> that new server (if subscribable) has to show up in the server list.

It would be cool to catch that case, but I don't think that this is necessary.
There's no problem to close and reopen the dialog in that rare case.

Comment 15

[scottputterman]

changing milestone to unknown.  It will get changed back when we figure out what
milestone to put this bug in.

Comment 16

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

I'm not planning on fixing this for 6.5.  marking future.

Comment 17

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

marking this won't fix.

the current mailnews architecture assumes it is modal.  making it non-modal will
open a can of worms we don't plan to address.

Comment 18

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Seth, is this a "We won't allocate the resources" or "We don't think, this is a
good idea in general"? The previous discussion suggests the former, but WONTFIX
is not the correct resolution for that. Some other contributor might want to fix
this (OK, unlikely, but still...).

Comment 19

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

to clarify, I think that making subscrbie a non-modal dialog is a bad idea.

subscribe is like new folder and rename folder, which are also modal.

when subscribing, renaming or creating folders, you should be blocked from the
mail application.

when you launch those dialog, you are basically taking a snap shot of the
current state of the folders, modifying it, and then applying the change.

if you make it non-modal, you could make changes which invalidate the snap shot.

the account manager and prefs dialog should also be modal for the same reason.

by making it modal, we simplify the design and the architecture.

it's not a matter of having the time or resources to make this fix, we shouldn't
make it at all.

Comment 20

[Hervé Renault]

[e-mail] wrote :

+ when subscribing, renaming or creating folders, you should be blocked from the
+ mail application.

ok, but you should be blocked from the Web *BROWSER* !

maybe the summary is not correct. it should be something like "Subscribe dialog
should not block you from using the Browser". can i change it ?

Comment 21

[Hervé Renault]

i forgot to type "NOT" in "ok [Seth], but you should NOT be blocked from the Web
*BROWSER* !"
i'm sorry.

i'm changing the summary/title of this bug.

Comment 22

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

> when you launch those dialog, you are basically taking a snap shot of the
> current state of the folders, modifying it, and then applying the change. if
> you make it non-modal, you could make changes which invalidate the snap
> shot.

That's an implementation flaw, it's not something the user should have to care 
about. The subscribe window and the three-pane window should both be making (and 
listening for) changes to an underlying state, rather than taking snapshots of 
each other.

Word, Photoshop, Excel, and other apps let you open more than one window for the 
same document at the same time. Each window is updated as you make changes in the 
other(s). This is the same situation -- two interfaces are provided for doing the 
same thing (subscribing and unsubscribing), and they should not have to lock each 
other out.

Comment 23

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Hervé Renault, I agree with you, but *this* bug is about the subscribe window
not being modal at all. Your suggestion is a subset. Please file a new bug for
that, and restore the summary of this bug. Thanks.
/me lazy

Comment 24

[Hervé Renault]

hmmm, this is going weird, when i first reported this, i meant only that "should
not block you from using the web browser". i've never meant to claim that it
should not be modal *at all*.

don't you think it's a really good solution to only block from the mailnews app
and not the web browser ? i understand perfectly that making it non modal at all
is too much work for little profit. i suggest we ask the opinion of other people
on the Cc: list and we make our mind on an acceptable goal. let me repeat that i
don't want the engineers to spend too much time on something the final user will
not even notice, when there's an easy solution around - if that's the case.

please tell me what you think...

Comment 25

[Ben Bucksch (:BenB)]

Oh, I didn't realize that you were the reporter.

> don't you think it's a really good solution to only block from the mailnews
> app and not the web browser ?

Yes, I do think that this would be a good workaround, if that were easily
possible. Unfortunately, it isn't, because Mozilla can't do that yet, I think.
Either modal to everything or nothing. Stupid (IMO) but true.

Comment 26

[Hervé Renault]

> unfortunately, it isn't, because Mozilla can't do that yet,

are you sure ?!!! i'm pretty sure it was possible a few months ago !
at least i remember that you could scroll and maybe even type in the urlbar...
but i suppose it was a bug, a nice bug for once ;-)

Comment 27

[[e-mail] (gone - use [e-mail] instead)]

VERIFIED, unless someone has a patch and wants to re-open ;-)

Comment 28

[R.K.Aa.]

What a strange bug this is..
Here's what i see:
While i am downloading new newsgroups: 

I can't wheelscroll in browser
I can't use thumb/slider/arrows on scrollbar in browse

BUT: 
I CAN use the keyboard to navigate in browser.

So it isn't entirely blocked - only mouse-actions are.

Comment 29

[timeless]

the reporter's now narrowed scope should be addressed (reopen). danm: can you 
help?

I filed Bugzilla Bug 83151 Subscribe dialog should not be modal, based on 
BenB's reading of the original report.

Comment 30

[Håkan Waara]

James talked about this in #mozilla today. CC him.

Comment 31

[James Green]

Urgh, this is not good. Not only does the subscribe dialog stop browser usage
but the "Download Headers" dialog does the same. This is one bug of several that
I could mention that blocks me from using MailNews; the mailnews way of wanting
one window for both tasks mail _and_ news is flawed - I can't easily read both
at once! Still, lemme file another bug on that...

Comment 32

[Christian :Biesinger (don't email me, ping me on IRC)]

duplicate of bug 74331?

Comment 33

[Dan M]

Bug 74311 is the base cause of the problem, but it looks to me as if the
suggested solution was not hoping for a fix for 74311 but rather making this
particular dialog not modal.

Comment 34

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

No visible action in almost 4 years. Resetting A+QA.