82660 - Offline UI: Tweak the Select Folders dialog even more

Status: VERIFIED FIXED

(SeaMonkey :: MailNews: Backend, defect, P4)

Description

[Håkan Waara]

From bug 79188:



------- Additional Comments From Blake Ross 2001-05-23 18:14 -------

mpt or a technical writer should review the wording (for one, "Selecting more 
items may increase download time" sounds fishy.  More items than what?)

I don't think that should say "Offline Item Name".  They're not necessarily 
offline items (although they potentially are).  And "Selected" doesn't really 
say much about the other column (nor are the items necessarily selected, 
although they potentially are).  Also, I think the checkboxes should be on the 
left of and closer to the items, pursuant to the common layout of a task list, 
and so that people don't have to try to line up the checkboxes with the proper 
items (which would be more of a problem if this dialog was resized).

The titlebar text seems a bit long and nearly duplicates the (probably too 
long) intro text, but again, I'll let a tech writer comment on that...

Comment 1

[Håkan Waara]

Blake and Jglick, here is the spinoff you asked for.

Comment 2

[jglick]

Attachment: Proposed dialog

Comment 3

[Håkan Waara]

Note: this bug is only for the wording part. Not the checkboxes and all that in
jglick's "proposed dialog".

Comment 4

[jglick]

Modified working for dialog title, column headers and descriptive text.

Column header for the checkbox column: thoughts on the visual "x"? We could also 
used words instead or just leave the column name blank if folks prefer?

Disabled dashes for Account level in the checkbox column. These can be just left 
 blank if folks think that is better. Thought this might help users scan across 
the columns better?

Comment 5

[Håkan Waara]

Jglick: I don't like the disabled dashes. It is easier to "scan" if there is
nothing there. Also, I think we should use words instead of that X in the column
header.

The wording at the top was good though. :)

Comment 6

[jglick]

OK, screenshot without dashes coming up. Any ideas for what to name the "X" 
column? Leave it blank?  

Comment 7

[jglick]

Attachment: No disabled dashes, no "X" in column header

Comment 8

[Håkan Waara]

Mpt says (regarding wording for the other columns):

<mpt> oh, that's easy
<mpt> The columns shouldn't have headers

Furthermore:

<mpt> The checkbox column really *should* be to the left of the folder names ...
<mpt> it's better UI-wise. For any theme except *ahem* Mac Classic, putting a
checkbox column to the right instead of the left makes it unnecessarily
difficult to tell which checkbox goes with which folder.

I will try to fix this, along with jglick's wording in this bug.

Morphing summary

Comment 9

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

get UI buy off from jglick, first. if she agrees, she'll change the spec.

otherwise, let's follow the spec.

Comment 10

[jglick]

Comments from Robin Foster (tech pubs):
The wording that's there looks fine. I personally like having the columns 
labelled, because I think it spells out clearly what types of items are listed 
in the dialog. Otherwise, people have to look at the items to determine what 
types of items are listed. For the checkbox column, 4.x used the column label
"Download". I like that because, again, it reinforces what will happen if you 
check an item. 

Comment 11

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Attachment: Look, ma, no column headers! (screenshot from the 4.x dialog)

Comment 12

[jglick]

Attachment: 4.x Windows has column headers

Comment 13

[jglick]

Attachment: Example of no headers and checkboxes moved the left

Comment 14

[jglick]

Attachment: Example with columns headers and checkboxes at left

Comment 15

[robinf]

I like your last attachment (36162) that shows the column headers. I'd suggest 
adding the word "Download" as the title for the column with the checkboxes.

Comment 16

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Column headers for a listbox are useful if you have two or more columns of text, 
or two or more columns of checkboxes or radio buttons, so people can tell which 
column is what. But here, you only have one column of text, and one column of 
checkboxes, so there is no point in including any column headers. They will be 
completely redundant with the label above the listbox (as Jennifer's `folders 
and/or newsgroups ... Folders and Newsgroups' screenshot shows); and because they 
are constricted in size and grammar, they won't be as useful as a label above the 
listbox either.

> Otherwise, people have to look at the items to determine what types of items
> are listed.

That doesn't apply in this case -- since we only have one column of text, people 
already have to look at the items anyway.

As for `select', that's a bit misleading -- selecting a row in a listbox is an 
altogether different thing from choosing it by clicking its checkbox. Generally 
you should use `choose' instead.

So, I suggest:
*   title = "Items for Offline Use"
*   label = "Choose the mail folders and newsgroups you want to download for
    offline use."
*   column headers = none.

Comment 17

[jglick]

>Look, ma, no column headers! (screenshot from the 4.x dialog)
4.x Mac didn't use column headers consistently. Offline selection dialog doesn't 
have headers, yet Subscribe and Message Filters dialogs do have column headers.

4.x Windows used column headers for Offline, Subscribe and Filters dialogs.

I attached a couple different screenshots to illustrate the different 
suggestions that have been made.  I think Robin makes a valid point that the 
column headers help users better understand what they are being shown.

The Subscribe dialog and the Message Filters dialogs both have their "Selection" 
columns to the right.  Is it important to be consistent with that?

Comment 18

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

> The Subscribe dialog and the Message Filters dialogs both have their
> "Selection" columns to the right.  Is it important to be consistent with
> that?

Yes, they should be fixed to remove their column headers and put their 
checkboxes to the left as well. But that, as they say, is a Different Bug.

Comment 19

[robinf]

I like mpt's suggestions for title and label. However, I believe that labeling 
the columns will help make this dialog box more understandable for users. For 
the checkbox column, I'd suggest either "Download" or "Available for offline 
use"

Comment 20

[Håkan Waara]

For what it's worth here, I agree with MPT. It is obvious what the columns do
because of the wording.

And it looks nicer with attachment 36161 [details]

Comment 21

[Håkan Waara]

robinf: why do we even have the wording at the top of the dialog if it doesn't
make those two columns obvious?

I don't see the point of adding redundancy.

Comment 22

[jglick]

column headers also provide the functionality of being able to move the columns.

Comment 23

[Håkan Waara]

jglick: there is no point of resizing the columns in this case.

Comment 24

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

If resizing or reordering the checkboxes is useful here, then don't we also 
allow the user to resize or reorder the `Use secure connection', `Check for new 
mail at startup', etc checkboxes in the Account Manager? ... Because they're
*checkboxes*.

> For the checkbox column, I'd suggest either "Download" or "Available for
> offline use"

Remember, half the reason for moving the checkbox column to the left is to move 
them closer to the items to which they refer. Like ordinary checkboxes are. 
Giving the checkbox column a header, `Available for offline use', would not 
only make the column even wider than the column showing the name of the item, 
it would move the items very far away indeed from their respective checkboxes. 
Even `Download' with an unlucky localization would make the distance between an 
item and its checkbox annoyingly large. Perhaps that's why checkboxes don't 
usually have column headings.

Comment 25

[robinf]

>I don't see the point of adding redundancy.

I understand your concern about avoiding redundancy. However, in this case, 
IMHO, I think the column headings help make the dialog more understandable. If 
the end result is that the dialog with column headings is more understandable 
for users, that should outweigh concerns about redundancy. 

Comment 26

[Håkan Waara]

robinf: My point is that this is adding redundancy for the user. See mpt's comment.

Comment 27

[timeless]

Available or Subscribe(d)

jglick: the nc4 stuff i'm used to had check or dot which was much easier to 
scan, can you prototype that? hwaara: having nothing is confusing because you 
can't subscribe to servers (well i don't think you can, what would it mean?)

Comment 28

[Håkan Waara]

> Available or Subscribe(d)

Huh?

> hwaara: having nothing is confusing because you can't subscribe to servers
(well i don't think you can, what would it mean?)

Huh?

Comment 29

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

Yes, we should have tri-state checkboxes which allow you to turn on/off all 
subscribed folders for an account at once (outdented from the checkboxes for 
individual folders/groups) -- but that should be filed as a Different Bug.

Making checkboxes inside listboxes easier to scan in Windows Classic is bug 
71364. It wouldn't be a bad idea for checkboxes inside listboxes in Modern to 
have the tick/dot appearance they had in 4.x, since that would fit with the 
general appearance of Modern -- but that should be filed as a Different Bug.

Comment 30

[jglick]

>If resizing or reordering the checkboxes is useful here, then don't we also 
>allow the user to resize or reorder the `Use secure connection', `Check for new 
>mail at startup', etc checkboxes in the Account Manager? ... Because they're
>*checkboxes*.

Yes they are checkboxes, but they are inside a Listbox widget. And listboxes 
generally have columns of data.  This isn't a couple prefs to be turned on/off, 
its the Folder Pane view of Accounts.  Maybe a checkbox isn't appropriate to be 
used as a way to select which folders/newsgroups are selected for offline.

Comment 31

[jglick]

Attachment: timeless, is this sorta what you had in mind?

Comment 32

[Matthew T (active 1999-2002)]

> listboxes generally have columns of data.

Listboxes often (as in this case) have only one substantive column. In such 
cases they rarely, if ever, have a column header. I think the fact that we're 
using two columns at all here is an implementation accident which the user 
should not have to care about. Certainly the user should not have to read a 
label and a column header which say essentially the same thing.

Comment 33

[timeless]

jglick: yes. it looks pretty good too :)

Comment 34

[Håkan Waara]

Now we got a bit offtopic (with the alternative checkbox-images...).

What exactly do you all want changed, except for the not yet decided
column-hiding and reordering? I'm mostly thinking about wordings here...

Comment 35

[Håkan Waara]

bouncing off to 0.9.3

Comment 36

[Håkan Waara]

Reassign

Comment 37

[David :Bienvenu]

Not sure why this is assigned to me. This is a UI thing, isn't it? Reassigning
to Diane. Mohan is already cc'ed, so if it's yours, Mohan, please takeit.

Comment 38

[jglick]

Since this bug was supposed to be about wording, this is the wording I 
suggest based on the comments in the bug.

Title: "Items for Offline Use"

Description:  "Select the mail folders and newsgroups you would like to download 
for offline use."

Columns: "Folders and Newsgroups", "Download"

Comment 39

[Diane Sun]

I agree with the latest proposal.  It matches the 4.x synchronize dialog and 
6.x subscribe dialog.
Attaching patch file

Comment 40

[Diane Sun]

Attachment: fix

Comment 41

[Håkan Waara]

I guess it's OK for now (but I still want the columns hidden, grr :) ).

r=hwaara -- it's an improvement over the current one.

Comment 42

[Diane Sun]

Request SR, Seth?

Comment 43

[(not reading, please use [e-mail] instead)]

sr=sspitzer

Comment 44

[Diane Sun]

checked in

Comment 45

[grylchan]

Using commercial trunk builds:
2001080203 NT 4.0
2001080208 linux 2.2
2001080208 mac 9.0.4

Verified the select folders for offline use window follow's
jglick's comments on 2001-06-28 10:27.

The columns are adjustable. Checking various boxes works and
the settings are saved. 

Tested both themes

Note: the sidebar used to scroll up and down looks little whack but
     I see this same problem in Mail/News Account settings left pane.
     So it must be some general bug. (In Classic theme)

     Also, if you adjust the 'download' column, towards the left. the
     checkboxes don't move as much as the column heading. So the
     checkboxes that were centered underneath the heading are now
     to the right of the word 'download'. I saw this in the rtm
     build also. just a fyi.

Marking as verified.