92246 - [rfe] backspace should page up

Status: VERIFIED DUPLICATE of bug 36922

(Core :: DOM: UI Events & Focus Handling, enhancement, P5)

Description

[Christopher Blizzard (:blizzard)]

In Netscape 4.x space would page down and Backspace would page up.  Mozilla
doesn't do this.

Comment 1

[Matthias Versen [:Matti]]

-> Keyboard navigation

Comment 2

[Aaron Leventhal]

Oh God, please don't engage in another philosophical debate about this stuff.
I don't care. 


Bug 69981 was just fixed so that backspace doesn't go back a page.

Comment 3

[Mike Young]

just because 4.x did it, and just because it is another feature does not make it
a good idea. Backspace is designed to do just that, delete back a space. Making
it do something the user is not accustomed to isn't right. Granted, its not as
bad as going back a page (and risking losing data) but it still is unnecessary. 

Page up and Page down functions are built into the keyboard already. That's what
the "Page Up" and "Page Down" buttons are for.

With that said, if we *need* to map backspace to something (lets map every key
to some function!) This functionality would be the least obnoxious way to go.

Comment 4

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

Mike, there are other programs on Unix that use backspace to page up.  gv comes
to mind right away, and I'm sure there are others as well..

So of the 4 progams I use most (shell, editor, browser, postscript viewer) two
actually need to have backspace delete text and the other two use it to page
up....

Comment 5

[Chris Lyon]

What about RFE bug 79047 ('Shift + Space' should scroll upwards)?

If shift+tab tabs focus backwards, shouldn't shift+space page up?

Comment 6

[Christopher Blizzard (:blizzard)]

Space/Backspace are common neumonics as opposites both on windows and unix. 
Shift-space isn't.

Comment 7

[Chris Lyon]

According to the comments in bug 79047, shift+space is the common mneumonic 
opposite space on the Mac.  On Windows, any program using the IE widgit uses 
this mnemonic too.

When it comes to comprehensive UI design, I trust MacOS and Windows over UNIX 
any day.

Comment 8

[Christopher Blizzard (:blizzard)]

That's why each one is in the platform-specific bindings. :)

Comment 9

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

see bug 36922

Comment 10

[Aaron Leventhal]

Reassigning to German/UI design to sort this out.

Comment 11

[Austin Donnelly]

As a unix person, I was surprised when backspace was ignored.  Count
me in as someone who wants backspace to go back a page.

Austin

Comment 12

[Daniel Rall]

In addition to paging back in my trusty Netscape 4.75/Linux and its Windows
brethen, backspace has navigational value of "back" in two other rather major
pieces of Microsoft browsing software: Intenet Explorer and the Explorer shell.
 Backspace should definitely page up.  I'm lazy, and its not as far to reach on
my keyboard; I can hit backspace without moving my hands from over the home keys
by moving my pinky.  ;-P

Comment 13

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

*** Bug 98509 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 14

[Hrvoje Niksic]

In case it counts, I'd like to cast another "vote" for backspace scrolling up. 
On Unix, THE precedent for space/backspace scrolling down/up is Emacs, where all
the non-self-insert modes, such as info and w3, behave like that.

Space and backspace are much easier to reach than PgUp and PgDn.  That is why I
almost always scroll down with space, and get "stuck" when backspace doesn't work.

Because of these things, backspace scrolling up, at least on Unix, is not just a
perversity on the part of Netscape designers -- it's a feature many users have
come to expect.  Also, it wasn't a novelty in 4.x; as far as I remember, most
Netscape versions since about 1.1 behaved that way (sometimes they would screw
it up in betas.)

Comment 15

[Daniel Rall]

This missing key binding is driving me INSANE.  Is there a configuration file
which can be editted by hand to add this key binding to Mozilla?  A HOWTO for
adding the key binding would at least give users familiar with it the option of
turning it on.

Comment 16

[Hrvoje Niksic]

I've figured out how to do this.  I hope that me publishing this won't lessen
the chance of this key binding becoming standard, because I would really like that.

Until that happens, you need to create a `userHTMLBindings.xml' file.  This file
resides in the res/builtin/ directory in the Mozilla tree (the place where you
installed the Mozilla binaries; *not* ~/.mozilla/).

For backspace to scroll up, the file should contain the following:

<?xml version="1.0"?>

<!-- In order to work correctly, this file must live in the -->
<!-- res/builtin directory of the mozilla tree. -->

<bindings id="htmlBindings"
   xmlns="http://www.mozilla.org/xbl"
   xmlns:xul="http://www.mozilla.org/keymaster/gatekeeper/there.is.only.xul">

<binding id="browserUser">
<handlers>
<handler event="keypress" keycode="VK_BACK" command="cmd_scrollPageUp"/>
</handlers>
</binding>

</bindings>

Comment 17

[sairuh (rarely reading bugmail)]

->aaronl, since german is no longer here...and i'm not sure which UI person
should own keybd nav stuff for the browser.

Comment 18

[Aaron Leventhal]

Taking, but I'm not going to do it until it's been proven that most people want
this, since there are so many people against it.

Comment 19

[marlon bishop]

just a fyi, Opera also sports backspace navigation.  

It is my opinion that backspace on Windows/Linux should also page back to the
previous category heading (folder) in lists.  For example in bookmarks, if you
have categories like:

[+] News
[-] Entertainment
      Movies
      Music
[-] Shopping
      Cars
      Books
  --- Frogs ---
      
If "Frogs" is selected, hitting backspace will take the selection to "Shopping"
directly, hitting it again will highlight "Entertainment", once more will take
you to "News".   

After miles of drilling down into heavily categorized bookmarks, this would help
you get back out quickly.

Comment 20

[Aaron Leventhal]

Marlon, are you asking the backspace do what left arrow does now?

Can you find any other apps that support backspace this way?

Comment 21

[marlon bishop]

well kinda. it's a common windows convention, look anywhere. you can find it on
IE, and most lists in the OS.  I suppose what i meant was something more like this:

[-] Marlon's Bookmarks
   [+] News
   [-] Entertainment
      [-] Movies
            Harry Potter
            Matrix
         Music
   [-] Shopping
         Cars
         Books
     [-] Frogs
            Carnivores
        --- Herbivores ---


Backspacing would not take you up to each preceding category, but up to the
*parent* category.  The backarrow, as you suggested, takes you simply to the
previous category/folder.   

With Backspace you get: Frogs, Shopping, Marlon's Bookmarks
With Backarrow you get: Frogs, Shopping, Entertainment, News, Marlon's Bookmarks

Comment 22

[timeless]

i've never met a backarrow or a forward arrow.

On windows (in a tree view) left arrow will:
if (object.has.children)
then
 collapse(object)
else
 go_to(object.parent)

On windows backspace is like left arrow except that the if (condition) is always
evaluated as false ...

go_to(object.parent)

The idea of backspace navigating a page hierarchically might be interesting.
Since it wouldn't duplicate functionality ...

Comment 23

[Aaron Leventhal]

Attachment: This patch should work but doesn't, perhaps due to bug 50255?

Comment 24

[Akkana Peck]

The patch should probably be Windows-only unless there's evidence that a
significant number of users on other platforms want it.  I know there are a
significant number of Unix users who don't want it ...  and it's easy for people
who want this binding to add it in their own user bindings, but it's not clear
that it's easy for users who don't want it to turn it off (not sure if disabling
user bindings currently works or not).

Comment 25

[Daniel Rall]

This long time Unix user defintely wants that key binding (thanks for the HOWTO,
Hrvoje, worked perfectly!).  It's been there in every version of Netscape I've
ever used and I don't expect it to disappear in Mozilla.

Comment 26

[Christopher Blizzard (:blizzard)]

I know lots of unix users who do want it.

Comment 27

[marlon bishop]

reminder - do not implement on mac please :)  we have a delete button in the
backspace location

Comment 28

[Aaron Leventhal]

Attachment: Backspace page up for windows and linux

Comment 29

[Boris Zbarsky [:bzbarsky]]

Aaron, have you tested that this does not break Flash forms?  In such forms,
backspace should delete as it does in Mozilla forms.

Comment 30

[Aaron Leventhal]

Nope. Since it's such a political bug, I'd like to leave it to someone who
really wants it fixed to test it and get it reviewed.

Comment 31

[Olav Vitters]

*** Bug 107632 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***

Comment 32

[Jesse Ruderman]

*** This bug has been marked as a duplicate of 36922 ***

Comment 33

[sairuh (rarely reading bugmail)]

mass verification of duplicate bugs: to find all bugspam pertaining to this, set
your search string to "DuplicateBugsBelongInZahadum".

if you think this particular bug is *not* a duplicate, please provide a
compelling reason, as well as check a recent *trunk* build (on the appropriate
platform[s]), before reopening.