954649 - A new logo for Instantbird

Status: RESOLVED INCOMPLETE

(Instantbird Graveyard :: Other, enhancement)

Description

[Instantbot]

*** Original post on bio 1217 by Ale110 <pooh110andco AT ya.ru> at 2012-01-01 17:14:00 UTC ***

*** Due to BzAPI limitations, the initial description is in comment 1 ***

Comment 1

[Instantbot]

Attachment: PNG version of new logo

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1100 by pooh110andco AT ya.ru at 2012-01-01 17:14:00 UTC ***

New logo follows Mozilla's logos style and BTW made from Sunbird logo. Licence: Creative Commons 2.0 Unported or GPLv2

Comment 2

[Instantbot]

Attachment: PSD version (bird is untouched)

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1101 by pooh110andco AT ya.ru at 2012-01-01 17:16:00 UTC was without comment, so any subsequent comment numbers will be shifted ***

Comment 3

[Patrick Cloke [:clokep]]

*** Original post on bio 1217 at 2012-01-01 18:36:34 UTC ***

(In reply to comment #0)
> Created attachment 8352842 [details] (bio-attmnt 1100) [details]
> PNG version of new logo
> 
> New logo follows Mozilla's logos style and BTW made from Sunbird logo. Licence:
> Creative Commons 2.0 Unported or GPLv2

My first thought is that the text inside is bad since it requires localization.

Besides that, I do like the way it is going. It has a single strong color, which should allow people to easily find it in a taskbar or dock. I'm not sure if it should be differentiated from the Sunbird bird more than it is, however. Also, I feel like the space between the text bubble and the bird is too large, I wonder if there should be multiple bubbles? (Also, should the bubbles match the style of bubbles we use in Instantbird icons more? See http://lxr.instantbird.org/instantbird/source/chat/themes/icons/prpl-generic-48.png for an example.)

See also bug 954471 (bio 1035).

Also note these are just my ideas, I have no idea if anyone else agrees with me!

Comment 4

[Florian Quèze [:florian]]

*** Original post on bio 1217 at 2012-01-01 19:26:10 UTC ***

Patrick just wrote in comment 2 about all the points I was going to comment about (except I don't think matching the bubbles in our current icons is important; matching the bubbles in the Bubbles message theme may be more interesting even though it may not be important either).

Comment 5

[aleth [:aleth]]

*** Original post on bio 1217 at 2012-01-01 20:55:13 UTC ***

(In reply to comment #2)

I agree with the previous comments - just to add that text (and probably multiple bubbles) are also bad because they won't shrink well to taskbar-size icons.

Comment 6

[Instantbot]

Attachment: Current market evaluation of the logos used by comparable projects

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1102 by eric.caron AT gmail.com at 2012-01-02 14:49:00 UTC was without comment, so any subsequent comment numbers will be shifted ***

Comment 7

[Instantbot]

*** Original post on bio 1217 by Eric Caron <eric.caron AT gmail.com> at 2012-01-02 14:56:07 UTC ***

I think that in pursuing a new logo, we need to agree upon what's wrong with the old one and what the new one needs to accomplish.

What's wrong with the old one: 
 * People assume it is an icon for a program that has something to do with email
 * It looks dated (its style looks pre-Firefox 3.5: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mozilla_Firefox_logo_history.png)

What the new one should have (in order of priority):
 1) Create a unique brand identity (so people won't confuse us with other products)
 2) Convey that we're a chat program
 3) Show the Mozilla-backbone behind Instantbird
 4) Explain that we're able to connect to multiple protocols

I don't feel it is necessary that ALL of these should be met, but I feel like (for instance) #3 should only be satisfied so long as #2 is met.

Comment 8

[Instantbot]

Attachment: Bad logo attempt by ecaron

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1103 by eric.caron AT gmail.com at 2012-01-02 15:02:00 UTC ***

This proof-of-concept logo was meant to show that we're #1 a chat program and #2 can communicate with different protocols. Although it does accomplish #1, it doesn't do #2 and the colors make it look affiliated with Google.

This version will not be pursued.

Comment 9

[Instantbot]

Attachment: Logo suggested by Silvestre Herrera, after solicited for input by me

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1104 by eric.caron AT gmail.com at 2012-01-02 15:06:00 UTC ***

From Silvestre:
At first I thought about making a hummingbird embracing a globe like you wanted, but then I thought that it would confuse users making them think it is a web browser rather than an IM client (Iceweasel use this resource 'cause it's a Firefox fork). Then I thought of making something similar to the Thunderbird icon, but it wouldn't work at very small sizes (16x16), so that ruled it out.

So, having those ideas out of the picture, I made this icon. I made it "purple-ish" to make reference to libpurple, it doesn't have a lot of "mozilla" in it though.



Response from Ezequiel:
 * Remove the Feather.
 * Either take the speech bubble out of the equation entirely and just leave a 3d-ish hummingbird, or (and I think I like this one better) use the hummingbird shape to "punch a hole" in the 3d-ish speech bubble. I'd like to see both as options.


I believe that Flo does not want to pursue this concept.

Comment 10

[Instantbot]

Attachment: Blake Winton provides a two-tone mockup of Andreas Nilsson's design

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1105 by eric.caron AT gmail.com at 2012-01-02 15:12:00 UTC ***

Andreas Nilsson initially provided (and I'm trying to find the image to attach) a mockup of a single-tone bird. Blake Winton modified it (attached) to show multiple colors.

Andreas originally said:
I agree that we need to watch out for looking like a twitter client too much, so making the bird blue is out of the question.

Here are some color suggestions:
Yellow - maybe
Orange - maybe
Red - could be read as "danger"
Blue - too Twitter
Purple - too Pidgin
Black - too Songbird

What do you think?


Blake replied:
Matej had the idea that you could do something like Adium, and have several different colours, and let the user choose the one they prefer.  (Which still works with the two-tone logo, by making the highlight colour white. :)


Eric replied:
First, I think the logo is absolutely fabulous. I do like the idea of the two-tone logo (although I envision is best with a white belly), but the two-tone does take away from the "do they mean their logo to look like a speech bubble - that is so cool!" impact that the single-tone conveys.

Regarding the altering of the primary color, I prefer the orange but could easily be talked into the yellow. Instead of letting the user dictate the color of the bird to suit their personal preference, I think it'd be effective to have the icons color reflect the users' status indicator (Away/Available/DND as their icon/taskbar icon). The problem with that, though, is people generally accept Green as "Available" and a project icon that's green most of the time would start to invade Adium's logo space.

Comment 11

[Instantbot]

*** Original post on bio 1217 by Eric Caron <eric.caron AT gmail.com> at 2012-01-02 15:29:52 UTC ***

(In reply to comment #0)
> Created attachment 8352842 [details] (bio-attmnt 1100) [details]
> PNG version of new logo
> 
> New logo follows Mozilla's logos style and BTW made from Sunbird logo. Licence:
> Creative Commons 2.0 Unported or GPLv2

While I do like the direction of this logo (my initial email to the ~15 designers I've contacted contained "We have some underdeveloped ideas (like using a hummingbird around a chat bubble in the same manner of the firefox wrapping the globe) but have no commitments to anything"), as multiple designers have said the tricky zone is when the images drop beneath the 48x48 barrier. Mark Carson (who did Sunbird) spent a lot of time on it making sure that when the image is small enough that the calendar takes focus over the bird. Of course a certain amount of subpixel hinting can be done to maintain a crisp logo, but the two subjects in one image introduces an extra level of complexity in the design that both the designers and developers have to expect.

Comment 12

[aleth [:aleth]]

*** Original post on bio 1217 at 2012-01-02 21:53:44 UTC ***

Wow, lots of designs coming up here!

Regarding the logo criteria in comment #6, I think #1 and #2 are essential, but not the others (though #3 is nice-to-have). IB being multi-protocol is simply a part of "IB just works". #2 implies that the fact that there are already a lot of birds and speech bubbles out there (see comment #5) is not necessarily a problem, though it makes finding a distinctive new design more difficult. I would add the criterion that the logo must look good on the taskbar (i.e. in small sizes) as unlike other apps, IM programs are going to be present there all the time.

Regarding colors (comment #9) I agree avoiding blue is probably a good idea (due to twitter and TB). Changing color depending on status does not seem ideal to me (it's a bit gimmicky and acts against criterion #1) - and IB already has the convention of denoting status by an overlay (over the user avatar); this should be extended to the taskbar/dock icon.

Some comments on the proposed icons:

Silvestre (Comment #8)
I also can only see this working with something like Ezequiel's suggestions.

Ale110 (Comment #0) 
Is currently not recognizeable at small sizes (as predicted in comment #10)

Andreas/Blake (Comment #9)
My favourite so far! It is already recogniseable from the favicon of the image in the browser (even before fine-tuning), which means #1 should be OK. It isn't quite #3 (mozilla-esque), but the round shape nods in that direction. Two-tone vs single-tone is really part of fine-tuning the color imho (e.g. one could imagine a fairly slight difference between the two tones).

Comment 13

[Instantbot]

*** Original post on bio 1217 by Ale110 <pooh110andco AT ya.ru> at 2012-01-03 19:13:28 UTC ***

c#9 - yes, cool logo, but it's so songbird ..(
chatting is wonderful and colorful, not so gray as yr icon
maybe more colors?

Comment 14

[Instantbot]

Attachment: zip with small 16x16 and 32x32 versions and comparison grid.

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1107 by pooh110andco AT ya.ru at 2012-01-03 19:52:00 UTC ***

also, small 16x16 and 32x32 versions of my logo and comparison grid.

Comment 15

[Instantbot]

*** Original post on bio 1217 by Ale110 <pooh110andco AT ya.ru> at 2012-01-03 20:01:28 UTC ***

attachment 8352846 [details] (bio-attmnt 1104) - the style is mozilla, not mac!) you've messed it with something wrong - IB handles windows and linux too! instead of this, nice icon 'o*

Comment 16

[Benedikt Pfeifer]

*** Original post on bio 1217 at 2012-01-04 13:10:05 UTC ***

(In reply to comment #6)
> I think that in pursuing a new logo, we need to agree upon what's wrong with
> the old one and what the new one needs to accomplish.

I'd rather define what's good and then decide what was wrong with the old but nevermind ;)

> What the new one should have (in order of priority):
>  1) Create a unique brand identity (so people won't confuse us with other
> products)
>  2) Convey that we're a chat program
>  3) Show the Mozilla-backbone behind Instantbird
>  4) Explain that we're able to connect to multiple protocols
> 
> I don't feel it is necessary that ALL of these should be met, but I feel like
> (for instance) #3 should only be satisfied so long as #2 is met.

Additionally it needs to look good in small sizes, as aleth already said.

In my opinion the only important point is to have a unique icon (that is 1), either in shape or color or both.

What goal are points 2-4 planning to achieve? Is it really important to put messages like "Chat program", "Mozilla-based" or "Multiple Protocol Client" into an icon that will serve to recognize the program most of the time? (I'm not a UI expert so take all I say with a grain of salt but I guess that also applies to all other comments here too;)

Wouldn't it be enough to have a distinct bird shape to make your mind jump from "bird" to "Instantbird"?


I really like the slim and distinct shape from attachment 8352846 [details] (bio-attmnt 1104), if nothing else were there. No feather, no bubble, no nothing. Only the shape of the bird in a very few colors (two? three?) . I imagine yellow or orange might look really awesome. Pronouncing a part (only one of the following, we want something distinct, not overloaded with details!) by using a different color for e.g. the wings, an eye or its beak  maybe? The shape should be the key of the icon, the color shouldn't distract here.


I don't like the (sorry for my language) fat bird from attachment 8352847 [details] (bio-attmnt 1105). To me it looks immobile, like a hatchling that needs help itself and not something that give you power to do something faster or better. The grey shades don't really make the picture more positive either.



PS: Skype demonstrated that having a distinct shape works well and even allows changing colors/details on the icon without making the icon unrecognizable.

Comment 17

[Benedikt Pfeifer]

*** Original post on bio 1217 at 2012-01-04 13:26:28 UTC ***

> What goal are points 2-4 planning to achieve? Is it really important to put
> messages like "Chat program", "Mozilla-based" or "Multiple Protocol Client"
> into an icon that will serve to recognize the program most of the time? (I'm
> not a UI expert so take all I say with a grain of salt but I guess that also
> applies to all other comments here too;)

I forgot a part here:
"to recognize the program most of the time?" was meant "most of the time you just need to recognize the program on your desktop or in the tasktray" -> You need to recognize it intuitively.

I mean how often would one try to consciously deduce what kind of program something is from its icon? I think it's not worth it to put all that information into an icon at the cost of making it cluttered, ugly or otherwise overloaded.

I'd prefer something LIGHT, SNAPPY and DISTINCTIVE instead. Like the HUMMINGBIRD from attachment 8352846 [details] (bio-attmnt 1104) minus all what distracts you from its qualities.

Comment 19

[Benedikt Pfeifer]

Attachment: Orange hummingbird by Mic using shape by Silvestre Herrera

*** Original post on bio 1217 as attmnt 1217 at 2012-03-03 14:19:00 UTC ***

Here's something I did with the hummingbird shape from the logo suggested by Silvestre Herrera. Maybe someone likes the idea of using the shape of the bird and makes something proper out of it?

Comment 20

[Patrick Cloke [:clokep]]

I don't think this conversation really went anywhere. It's nice to see some of the ideas, but I think it's unknown whether we really want to change the icon or not.