Closed Bug 78221 Opened 24 years ago Closed 24 years ago

modern3 design is WORK IN PROGRESS

Categories

(SeaMonkey :: Themes, defect)

Product:
SeaMonkey
Component:
Themes
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
VERIFIED FIXED
Milestone:
mozilla0.9.1

People

(Reporter: hewitt, Assigned: hewitt)

References

Details

Attachments

(1 file)

Peronsal toolbar and URL problems
25.19 KB, image/png
Details
I just landed the new design for the new Modern theme. You will immediately notice that many parts of the app look really bad - mismatching colors, buttons that look out of place, etc... this is because the theme is a work in progress. We have been asked to check it in now, and complete the design in public rather than designing it in private and landing it all at once. So, this bug is basically for duping the inevitable stream of "XXX looks ugly in the Modern theme" bugs.
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Target Milestone: --- → mozilla0.9.1
asa says: next icon needs to be resized or replaced (it's too small, but I'm sure you knew that) scc says: taskbar launchers need bumps (all other active buttons have bumps behind them). navigation buttons are clipped on the bottom and and sides (seems more pronounced on bottom and right side of buttons). selection highlight border lines don't extend to the rightmost column in bookmarks.
Sorry for the spam here, but cc'ing mpt to let him add his comments.
Sorry for even more spam, but... I hope the navigation toolbar will be less tall in the final version. There's quite a bit of vertical space above and below the URL field and the Moz logo. It'd be nice if that space could be given to web page content instead, or is it meant to serve any purpose?
afaik, that space is reserved so the buttons can look like the mail/news buttons (getting rid of the back/forward/reload/stop) My Thoughts: Have the boxy click and raised look when you have you mouse over the bookmark links instead of the link line (it looked kinda neat, discovered it when i took the modern theme into netscape, guess it created a bug as a side effect) What happened to that bubble effect you had with the buttons at the bottom of the browser, those were cool! Too bad its gone, would have spiced things up even more! ( screen shot on http://www.joehewitt.com/mozilla/mozilla-new.jpg ) I'm curious on how that would look on the menu items on clickdown Finally, don't forget that stupid lock on the bottom right, looks kinda out of place. You have my high praises on your brilliant effort! Keep up on the excellent work guys!
I have some personal taste type comments on the new modern theme, which are probably useless, but I want to get them off my chest... - For the non-conent area of the navigator window, I like the darker blue that modern2 had, as opposed to the lighter blue in modern3. - I prefer the throbber without rounded corners. - I prefer the 2-D, painted-on look of the back/forward/reload/stop buttons from modern2. - I thought the etched borders around the buttons on the bottom part of the window were cool. - There's no top to bottom shading in the bottom area. - There's no upper-left to bottom-right shading for the dialog buttons. - The sloping of the egdes of the dialog buttons ends abruptly, with most of the button surface being completely flat; I preferred the modern2 style, where the slopping gradually tapers off, giving the button a more rounded appearence. (At least, this is the way the two different themes look to me).
> For the non-conent area of the navigator window, I like the darker > blue that modern2 had, as opposed to the lighter blue in modern3. Wholeheartedly agree. > I prefer the 2-D, painted-on look of the back/forward/reload/stop buttons from modern2. Agree too. Or at least make dark borders thinner, as some people commented in mozillazine. You may not believe it but while a lot of many people in work don't bother to try Mozilla because they think "it's slow" (because of app loading time), they were immediately attracted when passing by my computer. Old modern skin was simple, ...modern and original. I admit that when I saw old modern skin for the first time I felt repulsed but shortly I realised I would never want to return to the outdated classic skin. So it would be better to keep ingenious aspects of the old modern skin (simplicity, bluish color) with new great features like focus indication etc.
I must jump in to defend the color choice: I like the much lighter shade of blue. I really liked Modern 2, but one of the reason I never used it much was because the blue was too dark for my taste, and I know some others agree with my opinion that Modern 2 was good but the colors were too dark. However, my crappy ass monitor is also just darker than everyone else's, so if someone can offer me a suggestion where I can, via software, make everything look brighter on my computer, then I might reverse my opinion about the blue. If I understand it correctly, the Back/Forward/Reload/Stop buttons in Modern 3 are temporary, which is why there is so much space below them. And obviously then don't match the buttons in Mail/News. Hewitt, the Mail/News buttons are gorgeous, now make some similar ones for the browser!
I have no clue as to how themese work, or how much effort goes into them, but... > I must jump in to defend the color choice: I like the much lighter > shade of blue. I really liked Modern 2, but one of the reason I > never used it much was because the blue was too dark for my taste, > and I know some others agree with my opinion that Modern 2 was good > but the colors were too dark. How hard would it be to have two different themes, Modern Light and Modern Dark? Could this somehow be made into a parameter, so there's just one theme with various knobs on it that you can twidle?
I heard a rumor at one point about someone who was working on a system that would allow you to change the tint of your skin very easily. I don't know whether its true or not, but it wouold be really cool to have. I for one like the color choice, but I understand where people are coming fom. Blue light can sometimes cause problems after long periods of time. That's why Window's default colors are a more neutral gray. Is there a way (or is there someone at Netscape) we can find out the best color for interfaces... sure grey has been the default for ages, but what do the experts say... Light or Dark colors, Pale or Saturated colors, Red Green or Blue? It would be interesting to hear expert opinions.
> we can find out the best color for interfaces... IMHO, bright yellow is very underrated as a UI colour <URL: http://home.no.net/huftis/nynorsk-programvare/mozilla/bilde/skal-gul.png > :)
The skins/themes are just an elaborate combination of CSS files and images, maybe something else like XML. The colors are in the images themselves and in the CSS files I think. Maintaining two versions of Modern isn't impossible, from my understanding, but might involve some extra work. So it might be a good idea if we let Modern 3, "Light Edition," mature more first before we think of creating a "Dark Edition."
Oh boy, I can hear the bugzilla gestapo on its way to tell us to take this to the newsgroups... I have to support the current nav buttons in the browser window. There are only a few functions browsing really requires, and these functions need to be bold and clear (wereas the mail buttons are soft and fuzzy). Browsing is traveling, going places, while mail is performing a myriad of operations. I see no problem if the two have different styles. Also, about the thick, dark borders: accesibility requirements come to mind.
RE different icon styles for browser and mail/news: Mozilla is still *one* application, and therefore needs a more *unified* appearance -> "brand-recognition".
The light color is burning my eyes out of their sockets. The new-style buttons are nice, although I've always preferred smaller navigation toolbars. I'm greedy about screen space.
I liked the old modern theme better. Give it a different name if you want, but give it back. :-p
The background color in the msgview in MailNews is not the usual white, but rather the gray that is in textfields. Is this known?
Depends on: 78348
I prefer gray background so I didn't noticed that. Apparently, build 2001043004 uses hardcoded gray for the plain text preview and main message windows. But for God's shake, do not hardcode white color here. Many people find this kind of background irritating to their eyes. NS4 was using the bgcolor defined in Prefs->Appearance->Colors->Text background. Is this the same spec with Mozilla? I wasn't able to find a related bug.
I'd just like to mention bug 22056 here (show toolbars as text/icons/both) because with the new modern skin it sounds like it might be possible to do this on a cross-skin basis... also the new modern skin will require some changes to the patches in that bug.
Please reduce the height of the Navigation Toolbar in the browser window. I would rather use the space for web pages.
Quick note: If you see real bugs in the theme (missing images, alignment problems, unstyled elements, and such) please file real bugs. This bug shouldn't even exist and encourages the posting of advocacy and opinion comments that shouldn't be in Bugzilla at all. After reading the original description again I see that it was not intended as a "fall-out from landing" bug like I thought it was. This bug is not being used to track _bugs_ in the new theme but is actually just a mechanism that Joe is using to keep his real buglist sane and free from a bunch of bugs and comments that should have never been filed in the first place. Joe needed a "ignore stuff that isn't a bug" bug so he created this one. Summary of Quick note: Don't post your opinions in Bugzilla, not in new bugs, not as comments on old bugs. If you have comments that will assist the resolving or verification of _bugs_ please post those in a real bug and not a garbage collector like this bug.
Blocks: 78358
No longer blocks: 78358
*** Bug 78358 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Since dnesse landed prefs API changes, color preferences are broken. Grey backgrounds and blue links are temporarily hard-coded.
please do not create dependencies between this and any other bugs. If a bug is an advocacy or opinion comment it is a Duplicate of this bug. If it is a real bug in the theme then it shouldn't be tied to this bug in any way. This bug neither blocks nor is blocked by any other bug.
No longer depends on: 78348
Nice typo: "for God's shake" ...hoping I amused you. Anyway, I just filed a bug for modern2 theme comeback. Modern2 advocates, put your votes and comments there :)
Depends on: 78348
I'm almost 100% convinced by now that there should be a "discussion" or "opinion" bug keyword (or even a severity level). This would make the bugs about loose ideas legal, while not taking time from engineers who do not want to read the "spam". Presently discussions like that are just sent to /dev/null, as moving them to discussion groups seems not to work at all. Actually I do not know when to send this idea, we do not file bugzilla bugs here, do we? I dared post it here as it seems to be a kind of /dev/null bug anyway.
If someone cares enough about a non-bug issue they will migrate the the discussion to the newsgroups. If no one cares enough to do that then it certainly doesn't deserve the attention of folks working on Mozilla. As far as bringing back the old modern, it's not going to happen. Not in Mozilla builds anyway. If you want the old modern then grab a build from a few days ago and you've got it. If anyone wants to make that available on x.themes.org it would be pretty easy but it's not gonna happen for Mozilla builds.
No longer depends on: 78348
Jacek, If you're filing a bug on core Bugzilla problems that might be used by other installations besided bugzilla.mozilla.org (there are hundreds of other customers of the bugzilla source code) then you file that on hte Product: Webtools, Component: Bugzilla. If you're filing a bug on Mozilla's installation of bugzilla (bugzilla.mozilla.org or b.m.o for short) then you file that on the Product: mozilla.org, Component: Bugzilla Component & Keyword Changes or Component: Bugzilla Other moz.org issues. As far as the request for adding a means for flagging comments or entire bugs as "discussion/opinion/advocacy" goes, I suspect that I would Won'tFix any request for a keyword (the kind of change that is easily made and doesn't require any code changes that would have to be approved for non b.m.o Bugzilla customers) since it would be ineffective except in the case where an entire bug was nothing but a "discussion/opinion/advocacy" bug and I don't believe that those discussions belong in Bugzilla. The alternative is to make a serious change to core Bugzilla code to allow for flagging particular comments with a "type". This might help the _problem_ of non-technical comments in Bugzilla but it is still a _problem_ and I don't think it should be encouraged. Newsgroups are a much more appropriate forum for discussion than bugs. Perhaps a third solution would be a button at the top of a bug that could be clicked to creat a newsgroup posting and once the posting was created the button could transform to a link pointing to the top of that newsgroup thread.
<spam> how's joes sanity? I know I would snap if I had 3000 people telling me what I should do for a program! =c(
I would first like to say that I think asa (the bugzilla gestapo)'s comments are a bit overreactionary/zealous. What is it to you if people choose to participate in discussions on bugzilla, and the owner, hewitt, has volunteered to hear us out? Are we bogging bugzilla down? I would like to thank hewitt for giving us this opportunity to give him feedback. Usegroups are not neccessarily a good replacement for these bugs. This bug gives a centralized forum for voicing our concerns. Unlike the wilds of the newsgroups, comments here are centralized and emailed to us as we wish. Most importantly, joe seems to be directly observing and responding to them.
After switching from classic to the new modern theme, I have two serious problems with the way it looks: 1) My personal toolbar is covered in verticle black lines. These go away when I open a menu or something which covers part of the toolbar. For example, in the picture which I'll attach, I've opened the "Tasks" menu, so part of the toolbar is okay again. 2) The URL window is way off, and correspondingly the search button is gunked. Are other people having this problem, too? I'm running 2001050104 on Win2k.
Ben Ruppel, Can we please avoid name calling. Thanks. Yes, you are bogging Bugzilla down (and so am I). Every comment we add makes querying against the long_description field in bugzilla take that much longer and generate that many more false positives. You don't believe me? I was running queries on this database when it had less than 1/10 the comments it now has. I speak from experience (want to test this? query for the word "page" in the description with Component set to all. Then run the same query with Component limited to just Layout). Bugzilla is not the place to have advocacy and opinion discussions. Joe Hewitt wrote in his opening this bug "So, this bug is basically for duping the inevitable stream of 'XXX looks ugly in the Modern theme' bugs." The inevitable stream of bugs... Does that sound like actively soliciting your opinions and advocacy comments? He posted screenshots to mozillaZine and posted comments to the newsgroups soliciting feedback (posting the full design specifications would have been a lot better). Also note that what's really being done here is implementing in public, not designing in public. Bugzilla is mozilla.org's _bug_ database. It is not a weblog or newsgroup. If you find _bugs_ in the implementation of the theme, things which do not behave as expected, Bugzilla is the place to file them. If you have design criticism or opinions please do it in the Newsgroups, mozillaZine, IRC or email. If you would like to respond to my comments about Bugzilla please email me directly rather than posting in this or any other bug. Thanks.
*** Bug 78688 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 78587 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Just landed a bunch of new icons, including the new navigator buttons.
Using win32 BuildID 2001050604 I seem the problem with the misplaced URL bar and search button when switching from classic to modern theme.
Themes Triage Team marking nsbeta1+
Keywords: nsbeta1+
I suggest removing the image of the envelope from the left side of the mail toolbar. Also, is Modern3 available anywhere as a downloadable theme?
I liked the previous print icon better, this new one looks more like a shredder ( or one of those small desktop scanners) But overall : very nice !! is it possible to make it a seperate download somehow ?
*** Bug 79689 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
I, personally, like the image on the mail toolbar. I think it'll help attract new, more aesthetically oriented users. It might be nice, however, to be able to edit the toolbar, including removing that image... that probably belongs in its own bug though.
And have a theme with more colored icons... I personally hate colorless ie-like icons. :(
Confirming James Akula's bug (vertical black lines and b0rked urlbar location) in 2001050904
The new OK, Cancel etc. buttons are quite dark. Normally buttons are that dark only when pressed. Buttons that are dark when not pressed look weird. Modern 3 looks much better than Modern 1 and 2 (but it's still not Aqua).
using win32 installer trunk build 2001050915. the forward-hov.gif in \navigator\btn1\ should be tinted green(ish) like the other three main navigator buttons are on hover. actually, i personally think that perhaps the back and forward buttons should be green on hover, stop should be red (like the mail/news icon), and some third color used for reload. yeah, it's a little bit trivial, but colors make me happy. otherwise, i'm seriously loving the theme - i'm using it more than any other. p.s.: it'd be grand if you could upload the modern3.jar file to somewhere so that it's easier to update new skin changes than having to download a whole new nightly. :)
almost forgot - the button-action images (i.e., back-act.gif, forward-act.gif, etc.) seem to be infected with an out-of-place thick bluish square in the background. if that's a feature, i guess i'll be replacing the button-action images with the button-disabled images for eternity.
*** Bug 81686 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Marking fixed because the modern3 design is now pretty much finished. Ok, it's not 100% finished, but at this point it's close enough that I'm willing to accept bugs on things that people think don't look right.
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 24 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
*** Bug 81872 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
*** Bug 81869 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Both of my comments from 2001-05-02 are still a problem.
toolbars are still messed up in modern theme for windows and linux though (commercial builds: 2001-05-30-08-trunk).
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: FIXED → ---
There's no point to reopening this bug. Please file another bug with more specific details.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 24 years ago → 24 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
Ok, marking verified then.
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
Product: Core → SeaMonkey
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