No smooth scrolling with Hardware Vsync enabled

RESOLVED WORKSFORME

Status

()

RESOLVED WORKSFORME
3 years ago
a year ago

People

(Reporter: ratm6, Unassigned)

Tracking

42 Branch
x86_64
Windows 8.1
Points:
---

Firefox Tracking Flags

(Not tracked)

Details

(Whiteboard: [mozfr-community][gfx-noted])

Attachments

(1 attachment)

(Reporter)

Description

3 years ago
Created attachment 8687312 [details]
firefox_45_32_bit_scrolling.mp4

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; Win64; x64; rv:42.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/42.0
Build ID: 20151029151421

Steps to reproduce:

I simply scroll up and down on any webpage with the mouse wheel.
For instance :
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7u7T7vTbFZg
http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1266756-amd-gpu-issues-on-windows-10/?page=2
http://www.programme-television.org/#tous


Actual results:

I noticed short jerks while scrolling, that didn't appear when HW vsync was disabled (in about:config).
Take a look at the small video attached to that bug report.


Expected results:

The scrolling should be completely smooth.
(Reporter)

Comment 1

3 years ago
The discussion about this bug has started here :
https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1197898#c7
(Reporter)

Updated

3 years ago
OS: Unspecified → Windows 8.1
Hardware: Unspecified → All
Component: Untriaged → Graphics
Product: Firefox → Core
This also seems to be the case with forced software vsync. I Can't really reproduce at all.

Can you please provide the following information:
1) about:support on a nightly build
2) Create a new profile, disable all add-ons, and disable multi-process Nightly. Does it still happen?
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6)
(Reporter)

Comment 3

3 years ago
1) my about:support : 

Application Basics
------------------

Name: Firefox
Version: 45.0a1
Build ID: 20151113030248
Update Channel: nightly
User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; Win64; x64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
Multiprocess Windows: 1/1 (default: true)
Safe Mode: false

Crash Reports for the Last 3 Days
---------------------------------

All Crash Reports

Extensions
----------

Graphics
--------

Adapter Description: IGFX
Adapter Description (GPU #2): AMD Radeon HD 8600M Series
Adapter Drivers: igdumdim64 igd10iumd64 igd10iumd64 igdumdim32 igd10iumd32 igd10iumd32
Adapter Drivers (GPU #2): aticfx64 aticfx64 aticfx64 aticfx32 aticfx32 aticfx32 atiumd64 atidxx64 atidxx64 atiumdag atidxx32 atidxx32 atiumdva atiumd6a atitmm64
Adapter RAM: Unknown
Adapter RAM (GPU #2): 1024
Asynchronous Pan/Zoom: wheel input enabled
Device ID: 0x0416
Device ID (GPU #2): 0x6660
Direct2D Enabled: true
DirectWrite Enabled: true (6.3.9600.17999)
Driver Date: 9-25-2015
Driver Date (GPU #2): 8-3-2015
Driver Version: 10.18.14.4294
Driver Version (GPU #2): 15.200.1062.1004
GPU #2 Active: false
GPU Accelerated Windows: 1/1 Direct3D 11 (OMTC)
Subsys ID: 1978103c
Subsys ID (GPU #2): 0000000c
Supports Hardware H264 Decoding: No; Hardware video decoding disabled or blacklisted
Vendor ID: 0x8086
Vendor ID (GPU #2): 0x1002
WebGL Renderer: Google Inc. -- ANGLE (Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 Direct3D11 vs_5_0 ps_5_0)
windowLayerManagerRemote: true
AzureCanvasBackend: direct2d 1.1
AzureContentBackend: direct2d 1.1
AzureFallbackCanvasBackend: cairo
AzureSkiaAccelerated: 0

Important Modified Preferences
------------------------------

browser.cache.disk.capacity: 358400
browser.cache.disk.filesystem_reported: 1
browser.cache.disk.smart_size.first_run: false
browser.cache.frecency_experiment: 3
browser.download.importedFromSqlite: true
browser.places.smartBookmarksVersion: 7
browser.startup.homepage_override.buildID: 20151113030248
browser.startup.homepage_override.mstone: 45.0a1
browser.urlbar.suggest.searches: true
browser.urlbar.userMadeSearchSuggestionsChoice: true
dom.apps.reset-permissions: true
dom.mozApps.used: true
extensions.lastAppVersion: 45.0a1
gfx.direct3d.last_used_feature_level_idx: 0
media.gmp-eme-adobe.abi: x86_64-msvc-x64
media.gmp-eme-adobe.lastUpdate: 1447508775
media.gmp-eme-adobe.version: 16
media.gmp-gmpopenh264.abi: x86_64-msvc-x64
media.gmp-gmpopenh264.lastUpdate: 1447508775
media.gmp-gmpopenh264.version: 1.5.1
media.gmp-manager.buildID: 20151113030248
media.gmp-manager.lastCheck: 1447508772
media.hardware-video-decoding.failed: true
network.cookie.prefsMigrated: true
network.predictor.cleaned-up: true
places.history.expiration.transient_current_max_pages: 104858
plugin.disable_full_page_plugin_for_types: application/pdf
privacy.sanitize.migrateClearSavedPwdsOnExit: true
security.sandbox.content.tempDirSuffix: {97bdb509-2128-4c4b-8b4d-386e47226222}
ui.osk.debug.keyboardDisplayReason: IKPOS: Touch screen not found.

Important Locked Preferences
----------------------------

JavaScript
----------

Incremental GC: true

Accessibility
-------------

Activated: false
Prevent Accessibility: 0

Library Versions
----------------

NSPR
Expected minimum version: 4.11 Beta
Version in use: 4.11 Beta

NSS
Expected minimum version: 3.21 Basic ECC Beta
Version in use: 3.21 Basic ECC Beta

NSSSMIME
Expected minimum version: 3.21 Basic ECC Beta
Version in use: 3.21 Basic ECC Beta

NSSSSL
Expected minimum version: 3.21 Basic ECC Beta
Version in use: 3.21 Basic ECC Beta

NSSUTIL
Expected minimum version: 3.21 Beta
Version in use: 3.21 Beta

Experimental Features
---------------------
(Reporter)

Comment 4

3 years ago
2) Yes It still happens, particularly on this webpage : http://www.neowin.net/forum/topic/1266756-amd-gpu-issues-on-windows-10/?page=2 or on this page : http://larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/pire/60730
It's worse than with firefox 42 64-bit.

Try to scroll on these websites with nightly 64-bit, a new profile, all add-ons disabled (and plugins) and  multi-process disabled too. With a graphic card like me (intel hd graphics 4600). Maybe you'll experience jerks while scrolling up and down.
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6)
(Reporter)

Comment 5

3 years ago
Please note that there are not huge jerks but short ones.
(Reporter)

Comment 6

3 years ago
In fact on this webpage : http://larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/pire/60730  
it's not worse than firefox 42 64-bit, it's the same.
But if I disable HW vsync in firefox 42, on this webpage it's smooth.
(Reporter)

Comment 7

3 years ago
(In reply to Julien from comment #6)
> In fact on this webpage :
> http://larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/pire/60730  
> it's not worse than firefox 42 64-bit, it's the same.
> But if I disable HW vsync in firefox 42, on this webpage it's smooth.

Please try to scroll on this website (even with firefox 42 safe mode and plugins disabled).
Maybe with an Intel hd graphics 4*** you'll be able to reproduce the problem.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 8

3 years ago
A correction : of course don't start in safe mode or it will disable the HW vsync... isn't it?
(Reporter)

Comment 9

3 years ago
Another webpage that is not smooth with HW vsync : http://www.programme-television.org/films-telefilms/policier/frenzy#130765681
When I start scrolling from the top to the bottom I have a kind of visual stuttering.
When I scroll up and down while being in front of the flash video that's not smooth.
(In reply to Julien from comment #7)
> (In reply to Julien from comment #6)
> > In fact on this webpage :
> > http://larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/pire/60730  
> > it's not worse than firefox 42 64-bit, it's the same.
> > But if I disable HW vsync in firefox 42, on this webpage it's smooth.
> 
> Please try to scroll on this website (even with firefox 42 safe mode and
> plugins disabled).
> Maybe with an Intel hd graphics 4*** you'll be able to reproduce the problem.

The profile in comment 10 is from the larousse.fr website. Both with and without hardware vsync, that page is janky for me.

For the neowin site, disabling hardware vsync makes it MUCH jankier for me. This is on an Intel HD Graphics card as well running Windows 10. 

Can you try getting a profile on your machine? - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Performance/Profiling_with_the_Built-in_Profiler
Flags: needinfo?(mchang) → needinfo?(ratm6)
(Reporter)

Comment 12

3 years ago
I tried getting a profile, here is the file you can import it in your firefox : http://ratm6.free.fr/profile_larousse_hw_vsync_on.json  (save the file on your hard disks first).
Or tell me how to upload it to cleopatra please because ctrl+shift+2 doesn't work.
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6)
(In reply to Julien from comment #12)
> I tried getting a profile, here is the file you can import it in your
> firefox : http://ratm6.free.fr/profile_larousse_hw_vsync_on.json  (save the
> file on your hard disks first).
> Or tell me how to upload it to cleopatra please because ctrl+shift+2 doesn't
> work.

After you get a profile, in cleopatra, there is a button on the bottom left that says "Share Profile". Please click that. The profile attached looks wrong, I Don't see anything on the compositor which is odd. Please use the default profiler options. Also, please use nightly.

It looks like you're also disabling e10s but your about:support has e10s enabled. Can you please pick one specific configuration and have all the data use that configuration? Thanks
(Reporter)

Comment 14

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #11)
> (In reply to Julien from comment #7)
> > (In reply to Julien from comment #6)
> > > In fact on this webpage :
> > > http://larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/pire/60730  
> > > it's not worse than firefox 42 64-bit, it's the same.
> > > But if I disable HW vsync in firefox 42, on this webpage it's smooth.
> > 
> > Please try to scroll on this website (even with firefox 42 safe mode and
> > plugins disabled).
> > Maybe with an Intel hd graphics 4*** you'll be able to reproduce the problem.
> 
> The profile in comment 10 is from the larousse.fr website. Both with and
> without hardware vsync, that page is janky for me.

By the way, can you improve the smoothness of the scrolling with HW vsync enabled? for this website and other ones?
(Reporter)

Comment 15

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #13)
> (In reply to Julien from comment #12)
> > I tried getting a profile, here is the file you can import it in your
> > firefox : http://ratm6.free.fr/profile_larousse_hw_vsync_on.json  (save the
> > file on your hard disks first).
> > Or tell me how to upload it to cleopatra please because ctrl+shift+2 doesn't
> > work.
> 
> After you get a profile, in cleopatra, there is a button on the bottom left
> that says "Share Profile". Please click that. The profile attached looks
> wrong, I Don't see anything on the compositor which is odd. Please use the
> default profiler options. Also, please use nightly.
> 
> It looks like you're also disabling e10s but your about:support has e10s
> enabled. Can you please pick one specific configuration and have all the
> data use that configuration? Thanks

I used nightly with e10s off, hee is the profile link : https://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=1f909e381a4700bdc9d4e7fd3cb43effd6136925
I used the default profiler options.
(Reporter)

Comment 16

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #13)
> Can you please pick one specific configuration and have all the
> data use that configuration? Thanks

I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain please?
thanks.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 17

3 years ago
Please also do not forget my question here https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1224638#c14
thanks :)
(Reporter)

Comment 18

3 years ago
Another website to test if you want : http://www.zdnet.fr/
On my computer, when HW vsync is active the scrolling of the Top of the webpage is not smooth at all.
If I disable Hw vsync, it's smoother.
(In reply to Julien from comment #15)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #13)
> > (In reply to Julien from comment #12)
> > > I tried getting a profile, here is the file you can import it in your
> > > firefox : http://ratm6.free.fr/profile_larousse_hw_vsync_on.json  (save the
> > > file on your hard disks first).
> > > Or tell me how to upload it to cleopatra please because ctrl+shift+2 doesn't
> > > work.
> > 
> > After you get a profile, in cleopatra, there is a button on the bottom left
> > that says "Share Profile". Please click that. The profile attached looks
> > wrong, I Don't see anything on the compositor which is odd. Please use the
> > default profiler options. Also, please use nightly.
> > 
> > It looks like you're also disabling e10s but your about:support has e10s
> > enabled. Can you please pick one specific configuration and have all the
> > data use that configuration? Thanks
> 
> I used nightly with e10s off, hee is the profile link :
> https://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/
> #report=1f909e381a4700bdc9d4e7fd3cb43effd6136925
> I used the default profiler options.

Hmm, this profile looks like you have the devtools network monitor running? As well as a couple of other devtools windows open? Is that the case. There also seems to be a lot of Javascript running. In that case, there isn't much we can do since the website has a lot of JS running which is out of our control.

(In reply to Julien from comment #16)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #13)
> > Can you please pick one specific configuration and have all the
> > data use that configuration? Thanks
> 
> I don't understand what you mean. Can you explain please?
> thanks.

Please either enable or disable e10s, pick whichever one works for you. Then report the about:support information in that configuration.

(In reply to Julien from comment #14)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #11)
> > (In reply to Julien from comment #7)
> > > (In reply to Julien from comment #6)
> > > > In fact on this webpage :
> > > > http://larousse.fr/dictionnaires/francais-anglais/pire/60730  
> > > > it's not worse than firefox 42 64-bit, it's the same.
> > > > But if I disable HW vsync in firefox 42, on this webpage it's smooth.
> > > 
> > > Please try to scroll on this website (even with firefox 42 safe mode and
> > > plugins disabled).
> > > Maybe with an Intel hd graphics 4*** you'll be able to reproduce the problem.
> > 
> > The profile in comment 10 is from the larousse.fr website. Both with and
> > without hardware vsync, that page is janky for me.
> 
> By the way, can you improve the smoothness of the scrolling with HW vsync
> enabled? for this website and other ones?

Probably not. The main target is to have APZ + e10s mostly become the way we can have most of the web be smoother at the moment. Sorry :(.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(In reply to Julien from comment #18)
> Another website to test if you want : http://www.zdnet.fr/
> On my computer, when HW vsync is active the scrolling of the Top of the
> webpage is not smooth at all.
> If I disable Hw vsync, it's smoother.

I am unable to reproduce this at all on both Windows 7 and Windows 10, both two different machines with Intel HD 4400 and Intel HD 5600 cards. Both machines on this website are much worse with hardware vsync disabled.

Can you try disabling only gfx.vsync.refreshdriver (so that the other two are enabled). Also try disabling only gfx.vsync.compositor (the other two are enabled). Does any configuration clearly make it worse? Otherwise, I'm not sure what else we can do here :(.
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6)
(Reporter)

Comment 21

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #19)
> 
> Hmm, this profile looks like you have the devtools network monitor running?
> As well as a couple of other devtools windows open? Is that the case. There
> also seems to be a lot of Javascript running. In that case, there isn't much
> we can do since the website has a lot of JS running which is out of our
> control.

I didn't open other devtools. I just clicked on the Menu button at the top right of firefox, then on Development > Performance.



> 
> Please either enable or disable e10s, pick whichever one works for you. Then
> report the about:support information in that configuration.

Application Basics
------------------

Name: Firefox
Version: 45.0a1
Build ID: 20151117030242
Update Channel: nightly
User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.3; Win64; x64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/45.0
Multiprocess Windows: 0/1 (default: false)
Safe Mode: false

Crash Reports for the Last 3 Days
---------------------------------

All Crash Reports

Extensions
----------

Name: Adblock Plus
Version: 2.6.11
Enabled: false
ID: {d10d0bf8-f5b5-c8b4-a8b2-2b9879e08c5d}

Graphics
--------

Adapter Description: IGFX
Adapter Description (GPU #2): AMD Radeon HD 8600M Series
Adapter Drivers: igdumdim64 igd10iumd64 igd10iumd64 igdumdim32 igd10iumd32 igd10iumd32
Adapter Drivers (GPU #2): aticfx64 aticfx64 aticfx64 aticfx32 aticfx32 aticfx32 atiumd64 atidxx64 atidxx64 atiumdag atidxx32 atidxx32 atiumdva atiumd6a atitmm64
Adapter RAM: Unknown
Adapter RAM (GPU #2): 1024
Asynchronous Pan/Zoom: none
Device ID: 0x0416
Device ID (GPU #2): 0x6660
Direct2D Enabled: true
DirectWrite Enabled: true (6.3.9600.17999)
Driver Date: 9-25-2015
Driver Date (GPU #2): 8-3-2015
Driver Version: 10.18.14.4294
Driver Version (GPU #2): 15.200.1062.1004
GPU #2 Active: false
GPU Accelerated Windows: 1/1 Direct3D 11 (OMTC)
Subsys ID: 1978103c
Subsys ID (GPU #2): 0000000c
Supports Hardware H264 Decoding: Yes
Vendor ID: 0x8086
Vendor ID (GPU #2): 0x1002
WebGL Renderer: Google Inc. -- ANGLE (Intel(R) HD Graphics 4600 Direct3D11 vs_5_0 ps_5_0)
windowLayerManagerRemote: true
AzureCanvasBackend: direct2d 1.1
AzureContentBackend: direct2d 1.1
AzureFallbackCanvasBackend: cairo
AzureSkiaAccelerated: 0

Important Modified Preferences
------------------------------

browser.cache.disk.capacity: 358400
browser.cache.disk.filesystem_reported: 1
browser.cache.disk.smart_size.first_run: false
browser.cache.frecency_experiment: 3
browser.download.importedFromSqlite: true
browser.places.smartBookmarksVersion: 7
browser.sessionstore.upgradeBackup.latestBuildID: 20151117030242
browser.startup.homepage_override.buildID: 20151117030242
browser.startup.homepage_override.mstone: 45.0a1
browser.tabs.remote.autostart.2: false
browser.tabs.warnOnClose: false
browser.urlbar.suggest.searches: true
browser.urlbar.userMadeSearchSuggestionsChoice: true
dom.apps.reset-permissions: true
dom.mozApps.used: true
extensions.lastAppVersion: 45.0a1
gfx.direct3d.last_used_feature_level_idx: 0
gfx.driver-init.appVersion: 42.0
gfx.driver-init.deviceID: 0x0416
gfx.driver-init.driverVersion: 10.18.14.4294
gfx.driver-init.feature-d2d: true
gfx.driver-init.feature-d3d11: true
gfx.driver-init.status: 2
media.gmp-gmpopenh264.abi: x86_64-msvc-x64
media.gmp-gmpopenh264.enabled: true
media.gmp-gmpopenh264.lastUpdate: 1447687438
media.gmp-gmpopenh264.version: 1.5.1
media.gmp-manager.buildID: 20151116030208
media.gmp-manager.lastCheck: 1447760427
media.hardware-video-decoding.failed: false
network.cookie.prefsMigrated: true
network.predictor.cleaned-up: true
places.database.lastMaintenance: 1447687981
places.history.expiration.transient_current_max_pages: 104858
plugin.disable_full_page_plugin_for_types: application/pdf
plugin.importedState: true
privacy.sanitize.migrateClearSavedPwdsOnExit: true
privacy.sanitize.migrateFx3Prefs: true
security.sandbox.content.tempDirSuffix: {97bdb509-2128-4c4b-8b4d-386e47226222}
storage.vacuum.last.index: 0
storage.vacuum.last.places.sqlite: 1447687981
ui.osk.debug.keyboardDisplayReason: IKPOS: Touch screen not found.

Important Locked Preferences
----------------------------

JavaScript
----------

Incremental GC: true

Accessibility
-------------

Activated: false
Prevent Accessibility: 0

Library Versions
----------------

NSPR
Expected minimum version: 4.11 Beta
Version in use: 4.11 Beta

NSS
Expected minimum version: 3.21 Basic ECC
Version in use: 3.21 Basic ECC

NSSSMIME
Expected minimum version: 3.21 Basic ECC
Version in use: 3.21 Basic ECC

NSSSSL
Expected minimum version: 3.21 Basic ECC
Version in use: 3.21 Basic ECC

NSSUTIL
Expected minimum version: 3.21
Version in use: 3.21

Experimental Features
---------------------

> 
> Probably not. The main target is to have APZ + e10s mostly become the way we
> can have most of the web be smoother at the moment. Sorry :(.

And when APZ + e10s will be available?
(Reporter)

Comment 22

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #20)
> 
> Can you try disabling only gfx.vsync.refreshdriver (so that the other two
> are enabled). Also try disabling only gfx.vsync.compositor (the other two
> are enabled). Does any configuration clearly make it worse? Otherwise, I'm
> not sure what else we can do here :(.

if i disable only gfx.vsync.refreshdriver, it solves the problem. I get no jerks.
If I disable only gfx.vsync.compositor, it solves the problem too...

For these two tests, I went to http://www.programme-television.org/#tous WITH adblock plus enabled. Then I scroll up and down quickly and slowly with the mouse wheel and I wait for the appearance of short jerks.
I've noticed that with adblock plus disabled on this website ONLY I got no problem. I have no explanation.


I have another question :
why the preference "layout.frame_rate" doesn't work well on my configuration?
Did you try to set it to 60 on your Intel HD 4400 machine to see if this pref works?
For info, I do not force vsync with my graphic driver.
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6) → needinfo?(mchang)
(In reply to Julien from comment #21)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #19)
> > 
> > Hmm, this profile looks like you have the devtools network monitor running?
> > As well as a couple of other devtools windows open? Is that the case. There
> > also seems to be a lot of Javascript running. In that case, there isn't much
> > we can do since the website has a lot of JS running which is out of our
> > control.
> 
> I didn't open other devtools. I just clicked on the Menu button at the top
> right of firefox, then on Development > Performance.

Can you please use the gecko profiler add-on here:

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Performance/Profiling_with_the_Built-in_Profiler

Please do not use the simplified profiler, sorry about that. You should use the gecko profiler add-on with nightly.

> > 
> > Probably not. The main target is to have APZ + e10s mostly become the way we
> > can have most of the web be smoother at the moment. Sorry :(.
> 
> And when APZ + e10s will be available?

Unfortunately, we're not quite sure. All I can say is when it's ready.

(In reply to Julien from comment #22)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #20)
> > 
> > Can you try disabling only gfx.vsync.refreshdriver (so that the other two
> > are enabled). Also try disabling only gfx.vsync.compositor (the other two
> > are enabled). Does any configuration clearly make it worse? Otherwise, I'm
> > not sure what else we can do here :(.
> 
> if i disable only gfx.vsync.refreshdriver, it solves the problem. I get no
> jerks.
> If I disable only gfx.vsync.compositor, it solves the problem too...
> 
> For these two tests, I went to http://www.programme-television.org/#tous
> WITH adblock plus enabled. Then I scroll up and down quickly and slowly with
> the mouse wheel and I wait for the appearance of short jerks.
> I've noticed that with adblock plus disabled on this website ONLY I got no
> problem. I have no explanation.
> 

Did you restart Firefox after setting the preferences?

> 
> I have another question :
> why the preference "layout.frame_rate" doesn't work well on my configuration?
> Did you try to set it to 60 on your Intel HD 4400 machine to see if this
> pref works?
> For info, I do not force vsync with my graphic driver.

I'm not really sure. Every configuration is different and I don't have access to your configuration. Lots of things could be going on, so it's really difficult to say why without solid data. At the moment, nothing really makes any sense as to why it would be janky for you. What are your computer specs?
Flags: needinfo?(mchang) → needinfo?(ratm6)
(Reporter)

Comment 24

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #23)
> Please do not use the simplified profiler, sorry about that. You should use
> the gecko profiler add-on with nightly.

here are the profiles :

programme-television.org :
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=21eec4f686c16cde349f29f7af5238dd6543142a

larousse.fr :
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=8a3879de416110573d23531dff72334a9e2a0957


> 
> Did you restart Firefox after setting the preferences?
> 

Yes of course.

> What are your computer specs?

intel i5-4200M with intel HD 4600, amd radeon HD8670M, 8 GB DDR3L, 17", realtek hd audio


Mason, could you please try to see if you see jerks in that case (with your intel hd 4400):
"For these two tests, I went to http://www.programme-television.org/#tous
> WITH adblock plus enabled. Then I scroll up and down quickly and slowly with
> the mouse wheel and I wait for the appearance of short jerks.
> I've noticed that with adblock plus disabled on this website ONLY I got no
> problem."
I thank you very much :)
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6) → needinfo?(mchang)
> Mason, could you please try to see if you see jerks in that case (with your
> intel hd 4400):
> "For these two tests, I went to http://www.programme-television.org/#tous
> > WITH adblock plus enabled. Then I scroll up and down quickly and slowly with
> > the mouse wheel and I wait for the appearance of short jerks.
> > I've noticed that with adblock plus disabled on this website ONLY I got no
> > problem."
> I thank you very much :)

I really don't know. I tried these two sites with my Intel HD card and the site was jankier without vsync. Also, setting layout.frame_rate should actually be MUCH worse than using hardware vsync. If it made it better, I would be surprised. 

As for the profiles, it mostly looks like both sites should be smooth. It might actually just be your mouse since we don't align mouse input with vsync and your mouse might be sending inputs that more closely aligned with what we were doing in software previously.

There are some pretty long janks due to the display list processing, but that should be there without Silk as well. It also doesn't help during that case, all the time is spent in a Windows DLL That we don't have symbols for.

There isn't anything clear in the profiles because you're using a downloaded binary :(. Unless you want to build Firefox locally, there probably isn't a lot left I can do since I can't reproduce this at all.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 26

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #25)
> I really don't know. I tried these two sites with my Intel HD card and the
> site was jankier without vsync. Also, setting layout.frame_rate should
> actually be MUCH worse than using hardware vsync. If it made it better, I
> would be surprised. 

If I disable HW vsync on my computer (gfx.vsync...), I got smooth scrolling everywhere. That may be odd but that's the truth.

> As for the profiles, it mostly looks like both sites should be smooth. It
> might actually just be your mouse since we don't align mouse input with
> vsync and your mouse might be sending inputs that more closely aligned with
> what we were doing in software previously.

I made a try with 2 other mouses and I got the same issue. :(  I even changed the USB port.


> There isn't anything clear in the profiles because you're using a downloaded
> binary :(. Unless you want to build Firefox locally, there probably isn't a
> lot left I can do since I can't reproduce this at all.
I don't understand what version of Firefox I should use. What's the problem with "downloaded binary"?
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(In reply to Julien from comment #26)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #25)
> > I really don't know. I tried these two sites with my Intel HD card and the
> > site was jankier without vsync. Also, setting layout.frame_rate should
> > actually be MUCH worse than using hardware vsync. If it made it better, I
> > would be surprised. 
> 
> If I disable HW vsync on my computer (gfx.vsync...), I got smooth scrolling
> everywhere. That may be odd but that's the truth.

Sorry, I didn't mean to say you were lying. I'm just saying, I would be surprised if it's better and that it is an odd result using the layout.frame_rate. Not necessarily the gfx.vsync.* prefs.
 
> > There isn't anything clear in the profiles because you're using a downloaded
> > binary :(. Unless you want to build Firefox locally, there probably isn't a
> > lot left I can do since I can't reproduce this at all.
> I don't understand what version of Firefox I should use. What's the problem
> with "downloaded binary"?

The problem is in the profiles you have, whenever there is a big jank, most of the time is spent in a Windows DLL, ntdll, so we don't get symbols unless you install visual studio and compile Firefox locally. So all we see is a lot of time spent somewhere in Windows and we're not really sure why :(. I don't have access to your specific hardware configuration, so it's very difficult to understand why it would be worse.

How many monitors do you have attached?
If you go to the Intel HD control panel -> Displays, what does it say under refresh rate?
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 28

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #27)
> 
> How many monitors do you have attached?
> If you go to the Intel HD control panel -> Displays, what does it say under
> refresh rate?

I have only one monitor (my laptop).
Under refresh rate, it says "60p Hz"   (p as progressive)
I can also choose 40p Hz.
(Reporter)

Comment 29

3 years ago
Mason, could you please take a look (maybe for the last time) to this profile made with Gecko Profiler and Firefox 42 :
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=f189f3888e8da2db3738dfbbfd7deb19a1fa1421

Do you see any problem of scrolling?
Because I saw a lot of jerks while scrolling up and down during this record.
Thanks very much! 
I will not annoy you after.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
Thanks the profile. I see a couple of different problems with scrolling, but none that particularly look Silk specific. The website has a lot of Javascript which causes some problems as well as garbage collection. Can you get the same profile again, this time with the gfx.vsync.* preferences set to false? Restart firefox after that and get the profile? Thanks!
Flags: needinfo?(mchang) → needinfo?(ratm6)
(Reporter)

Comment 31

3 years ago
OK so here is the profile with firefox 42 and HW vsync disabled; it looks a bit different :
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=39afb5731c70c8f1816cfc6240f6a1dd3844b31c

What do you think about that?
thank you.
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6) → needinfo?(mchang)
Thanks for these profiles! That helps a lot. From both profiles, I'm actually surprised you only see small jank. It almost looks like this page should be very very janky. It also looks like this should've been fixed by bug 1210261. Can you try a couple of things?

1) Get the same profile but with nightly (Gecko 45). Please disable e10s as well to keep the configuration the same. Is it any better on nightly than on 42?
2) Try these three builds, which might help, but I won't really know for sure until a Gecko 45 profile is done. Do either of these builds fix the issue for you? (Should be ready within 2-3 hours after this post. If it says the URL is not found, try again after a couple of hours). If so, can you please get a profile with the build that fixes the issue for you? Thanks!

Try only tick parent refresh after tick finished: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-375812d0ff23cbbb6ad0406f98abe734f61d9b78/

Try not doing force refresh: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-1e67becc967bc8593add01cda01ba18fce58d296/

Combined: https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-a3c2918be1b014db426e2779bf8e963d09ce1e56/
Flags: needinfo?(mchang) → needinfo?(ratm6)
Also please include the date of the nightly you try with. This can be found in about firefox. Something like: "45.0a1 (2015-11-20)"
(Reporter)

Comment 34

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #32)
> Thanks for these profiles! That helps a lot. From both profiles, I'm
> actually surprised you only see small jank. It almost looks like this page
> should be very very janky. It also looks like this should've been fixed by
> bug 1210261. Can you try a couple of things?
> 
> 1) Get the same profile but with nightly (Gecko 45). Please disable e10s as
> well to keep the configuration the same. Is it any better on nightly than on
> 42?

When I use firefox 42 without HW vsync, the scrolling has no jerks, maybe it's not as smooth as you wish but it's constant and regular. With hw vsync, I get choppy scrolling, with unconstant movements.

1) here is the same profile with nightly 45.0a1 (2015-11-20) : 
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=d89b7628eecd2b88395b960f3c1462b01f45ac76
It's a bit better than on 42 (hw vsync on) but not smooth constantly.
(Reporter)

Comment 35

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #32)
> 2) Try these three builds, which might help, but I won't really know for
> sure until a Gecko 45 profile is done. Do either of these builds fix the
> issue for you? (Should be ready within 2-3 hours after this post. If it says
> the URL is not found, try again after a couple of hours). If so, can you
> please get a profile with the build that fixes the issue for you? Thanks!
> 
> Try only tick parent refresh after tick finished:
> https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-
> 375812d0ff23cbbb6ad0406f98abe734f61d9b78/
> 
> Try not doing force refresh:
> https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-
> 1e67becc967bc8593add01cda01ba18fce58d296/
> 
> Combined:
> https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-
> a3c2918be1b014db426e2779bf8e963d09ce1e56/

I'm sorry but none of your 3 test builds is better than the official nightly 45. I get random and suddently janky scrolling, less than with firefox 42 but not like with hw vsync turned off, which give me constant scrolling and not annoying jank.

I'm also irritated to see that the preference "layout.frame_rate" doesn't give me back my scrolling. Maybe there is a work to do on this pref.
Or maybe you're right the hardware vsync must work at any price on every machines.
What is your position?

Anyway, I want to help you to improve firefox and hw vsync with your test builds if you wish!
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6) → needinfo?(mchang)
(In reply to Julien from comment #34)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #32)
> > Thanks for these profiles! That helps a lot. From both profiles, I'm
> > actually surprised you only see small jank. It almost looks like this page
> > should be very very janky. It also looks like this should've been fixed by
> > bug 1210261. Can you try a couple of things?
> > 
> > 1) Get the same profile but with nightly (Gecko 45). Please disable e10s as
> > well to keep the configuration the same. Is it any better on nightly than on
> > 42?
> 
> When I use firefox 42 without HW vsync, the scrolling has no jerks, maybe
> it's not as smooth as you wish but it's constant and regular. With hw vsync,
> I get choppy scrolling, with unconstant movements.
> 
> 1) here is the same profile with nightly 45.0a1 (2015-11-20) : 
> http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/
> #report=d89b7628eecd2b88395b960f3c1462b01f45ac76
> It's a bit better than on 42 (hw vsync on) but not smooth constantly.

This profile looks like you should be scrolling smoothly with random large choppiness. But from comment 31, the profile shows that with hardware vsync disabled, you should have the same problem. Both with and without hardware vsync, you should be getting very large random jank. This new profile on nightly says it should actually be SMOOTHER, much smoother, than what you're getting without silk. Something is unique to your configuration if this isn't the case.

(In reply to Julien from comment #35)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #32)
> > 2) Try these three builds, which might help, but I won't really know for
> > sure until a Gecko 45 profile is done. Do either of these builds fix the
> > issue for you? (Should be ready within 2-3 hours after this post. If it says
> > the URL is not found, try again after a couple of hours). If so, can you
> > please get a profile with the build that fixes the issue for you? Thanks!
> > 
> > Try only tick parent refresh after tick finished:
> > https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-
> > 375812d0ff23cbbb6ad0406f98abe734f61d9b78/
> > 
> > Try not doing force refresh:
> > https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-
> > 1e67becc967bc8593add01cda01ba18fce58d296/
> > 
> > Combined:
> > https://archive.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/try-builds/mchang@mozilla.com-
> > a3c2918be1b014db426e2779bf8e963d09ce1e56/
> 
> I'm sorry but none of your 3 test builds is better than the official nightly
> 45. I get random and suddently janky scrolling, less than with firefox 42
> but not like with hw vsync turned off, which give me constant scrolling and
> not annoying jank.

Yeah that's not surprising since the problem you were having was fixed, which was bug 1210261.

> I'm also irritated to see that the preference "layout.frame_rate" doesn't
> give me back my scrolling. Maybe there is a work to do on this pref.
> Or maybe you're right the hardware vsync must work at any price on every
> machines.
> What is your position?

I would be very surprised if that preference made it better for it. By design, it really should be worse. It looks like in your case, it isn't necessarily using the GPU to drive rendering that's the problem as everything looks ok. From the profiles, it looks like you should be scrolling relatively smooth most of the time followed by a very large 300ms+ jank, with or without hardware vsync.
 
> Anyway, I want to help you to improve firefox and hw vsync with your test
> builds if you wish!

Thanks for testing, sorry for making this so difficult. Can you get another profile on gecko 42 again with hardware vsync disabled? Try with just disabling gfx.vsync.refreshdriver and the other two to true. 

And another profile with all 3 disabled. Just out of curiosity, do you have smooth scroll enabled? This preference is in the preferences -> advanced -> Use smooth scrolling. Are all 4 options checked under browsing?

Otherwise I'm really out of ideas. The profiles say you should be scrolling pretty smooth followed by a large random jank. This should be happening with or without hardware vsync. There must be something unique about your configuration if this isn't the case :(, and I can't reproduce it which makes it even harder to figure out.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang) → needinfo?(ratm6)
Also, how is Chrome / IE doing? Are they smooth?
(Reporter)

Comment 38

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #36)
> Can you get another
> profile on gecko 42 again with hardware vsync disabled? Try with just
> disabling gfx.vsync.refreshdriver and the other two to true. 
> 
> And another profile with all 3 disabled. Just out of curiosity, do you 

have
> smooth scroll enabled? This preference is in the preferences -> 

advanced ->
> Use smooth scrolling. Are all 4 options checked under browsing?

On the same website http://www.programme-television.org/ with adblock plus :
The profile with firefox 42 and "gfx.vsync.refreshdriver" disabled :
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=b32d6b4ba9f8311a4f60

6e16d1c699076714e0a8

The profile with all the gfx.vsync preferences disabled : 
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=784530f18d5941bc5fd9257a6370b8683f61859d

Yes I have smooth scroll enabled, and no the 4 options are not checked, only smooth scroll and hardware acceleration. I tried with autoscroll checked and I had the same problem.
Flags: needinfo?(ratm6)
(Reporter)

Comment 39

3 years ago
I repost the comment :
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #36)
> Can you get another
> profile on gecko 42 again with hardware vsync disabled? Try with just
> disabling gfx.vsync.refreshdriver and the other two to true. 
> 
> And another profile with all 3 disabled. Just out of curiosity, do you have
> smooth scroll enabled? This preference is in the preferences -> advanced ->
> Use smooth scrolling. Are all 4 options checked under browsing?

On the same website http://www.programme-television.org/ with adblock plus :
The profile with firefox 42 and "gfx.vsync.refreshdriver" disabled :
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=b32d6b4ba9f8311a4f606e16d1c699076714e0a8

The profile with all the gfx.vsync preferences disabled : 
http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=784530f18d5941bc5fd9257a6370b8683f61859d

Yes I have smooth scroll enabled, and no the 4 options are not checked, only smooth scroll and hardware acceleration. I tried with autoscroll checked and I had the same problem.
(Reporter)

Comment 40

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #37)
> Also, how is Chrome / IE doing? Are they smooth?

I don't test Chrome because google update is very annoying to remove after uninstalling Chrome.
I made a test with IE 11 and the same website is completely smooth. I see no jank.

I'm currently trying an add-on for Firefox called "Yet antother smooth scrolling".
It's able to remove all the visible jerks, but it also very difficult to set. I spend a lot of time...
(Reporter)

Comment 41

3 years ago
> I'm currently trying an add-on for Firefox called "Yet antother smooth
> scrolling".
> It's able to remove all the visible jerks, but it also very difficult to
> set. I spend a lot of time...

Scroll boxes and child elements like that of the webpages are not working with this add-on, and it's not updated since 2013. So it is useless. Too bad.
(Reporter)

Comment 42

3 years ago
By the way, is there any "general.smoothScroll..." preference I could change in order to improve smoothness?
If I'm dreaming just tell me :)
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 43

3 years ago
Another question : 
could you implement the patch of the bug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210261  in firefox 43? 
That would improve the scrolling of HW vsync before the release of firefox 45 which is planned on 2016-03-08, and it is very late.
Before using Firefox 64-bit, I used Cyberfox and the development team added patches of nightly in previous releases.
(In reply to Julien from comment #39)
> I repost the comment :
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #36)
> > Can you get another
> > profile on gecko 42 again with hardware vsync disabled? Try with just
> > disabling gfx.vsync.refreshdriver and the other two to true. 
> > 
> > And another profile with all 3 disabled. Just out of curiosity, do you have
> > smooth scroll enabled? This preference is in the preferences -> advanced ->
> > Use smooth scrolling. Are all 4 options checked under browsing?
> 
> On the same website http://www.programme-television.org/ with adblock plus :
> The profile with firefox 42 and "gfx.vsync.refreshdriver" disabled :
> http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/
> #report=b32d6b4ba9f8311a4f606e16d1c699076714e0a8
> 
> The profile with all the gfx.vsync preferences disabled : 
> http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/
> #report=784530f18d5941bc5fd9257a6370b8683f61859d
> 
> Yes I have smooth scroll enabled, and no the 4 options are not checked, only
> smooth scroll and hardware acceleration. I tried with autoscroll checked and
> I had the same problem.

Please re-do these profiles without adblock. Please do not install any external extensions otherwise it is difficult to know if the problem is with Gecko or Adblock. Both profiles look like scrolling should be worse than with the vsync preferences. Especially with all the preferences disabled, the javascript on the site should be making scrolling janky sometimes. Do you have another computer perchance or an external monitor? Can you try on another computer or with an external monitor but with the lid on your laptop closed so only the external monitor is the display?

(In reply to Julien from comment #40)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #37)
> > Also, how is Chrome / IE doing? Are they smooth?
> 
> I don't test Chrome because google update is very annoying to remove after
> uninstalling Chrome.
> I made a test with IE 11 and the same website is completely smooth. I see no
> jank.

Yes, IE is always smoother than Chrome / Firefox. Can you please try Chrome?


(In reply to Julien from comment #42)
> By the way, is there any "general.smoothScroll..." preference I could change
> in order to improve smoothness?
> If I'm dreaming just tell me :)

Not that I know of sorry :(


(In reply to Julien from comment #43)
> Another question : 
> could you implement the patch of the bug
> https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210261  in firefox 43? 
> That would improve the scrolling of HW vsync before the release of firefox
> 45 which is planned on 2016-03-08, and it is very late.
> Before using Firefox 64-bit, I used Cyberfox and the development team added
> patches of nightly in previous releases.

Not really :(. That is a very risky patch and it needs a lot of testing before it can make it to release.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 45

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #44)
> Please re-do these profiles without adblock. Please do not install any
> external extensions otherwise it is difficult to know if the problem is with
> Gecko or Adblock. 
On the same website http://www.programme-television.org/ without any add-ons :
 The profile with firefox 42 and "gfx.vsync.refreshdriver" disabled :
 http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=2f82b14299e858b8f1b894b7a0d2878552502601
 
 The profile with all the gfx.vsync preferences disabled : 
 http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=ab8bc5c8bec0f86a411c9675738fc27317d9e7c4
(Reporter)

Comment 46

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #44)

> Do you have another computer perchance or an external monitor? Can you try on
> another computer or with an external monitor but with the lid on your laptop
> closed so only the external monitor is the display?
I have another laptop (which is not mine so difficult to access); here are two profiles for this computer :

AMD Radeon HD 8350G
On the same website http://www.programme-television.org/ without any add-ons :
 The profile with firefox 42 and "gfx.vsync.refreshdriver" disabled :
 http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=4266891934428cf7597a6b60dcaecaab05cc0ac8
 
 The profile with all the gfx.vsync preferences disabled : 
 http://people.mozilla.org/~bgirard/cleopatra/#report=2c978793a176f11f3117372867c0014c6d607722

> 
> Yes, IE is always smoother than Chrome / Firefox. Can you please try Chrome?

No, I won't install that **** Chrome, unless you tell me exactly how to remove completely the Google softwares and modules (google update...).
Is it jankier with the gfx.vsync.* preferences disabled on your other computer or the same?
(Reporter)

Comment 48

3 years ago
It's difficult to compare : there are not in the same room and I'm not autorized to move the second computer.
But I could say that with hw vsync disabled it's not jankier, it's the same.
(Reporter)

Comment 49

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang PTO [:mchang] from comment #44)
> > could you implement the patch of the bug
> > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210261  in firefox 43? 
> > That would improve the scrolling of HW vsync before the release of firefox
> > 45 which is planned on 2016-03-08, and it is very late.
> > Before using Firefox 64-bit, I used Cyberfox and the development team added
> > patches of nightly in previous releases.
> 
> Not really :(. That is a very risky patch and it needs a lot of testing
> before it can make it to release.

OK but will it be released in firefox 45 for sure? It won't be delayed?

I make some tests on other websites and your Project Silk is not silky at all on my computer.
Either it's a bit stutter when I scroll slowly, or it's suddently jerky I don't know why.
I can't imagine how and why you have not find problems on some machines while you were developping it.
Please create a preference that really disable HW vsync.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 50

3 years ago
And you have other people who don't like hw vsync : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1194654
A preference which disable hw vsync should be great. Don't be sad :)
(Reporter)

Comment 51

3 years ago
OK so I made a test with Firefox 42 x86 and it's clearly smoother than x64 even with hw vsync enabled. One the only webpages that was janky is : http://fr.audiofanzine.com/editorial/tests/   (and other audiofanzine content).
The problem is I can't use firefox x86 because I have a bug with Flash player with this version.
So could you test only firefox x64 builds with your Intel HD graphics 4400?

And don't forget to please add a pref that disable hw vsync. I never had issues with previous vsync.
(Reporter)

Updated

3 years ago
Hardware: All → x86_64
(In reply to Julien from comment #49)
> (In reply to Mason Chang PTO [:mchang] from comment #44)
> > > could you implement the patch of the bug
> > > https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1210261  in firefox 43? 
> > > That would improve the scrolling of HW vsync before the release of firefox
> > > 45 which is planned on 2016-03-08, and it is very late.
> > > Before using Firefox 64-bit, I used Cyberfox and the development team added
> > > patches of nightly in previous releases.
> > 
> > Not really :(. That is a very risky patch and it needs a lot of testing
> > before it can make it to release.
> 
> OK but will it be released in firefox 45 for sure? It won't be delayed?


Yes, it hasn't been backed out, so it will ship in 45.

> 
> I make some tests on other websites and your Project Silk is not silky at
> all on my computer.
> Either it's a bit stutter when I scroll slowly, or it's suddently jerky I
> don't know why.
> I can't imagine how and why you have not find problems on some machines
> while you were developping it.
> Please create a preference that really disable HW vsync.

As we discussed previously, the preference "layout.frame_rate" already disabled hardware vsync. It will use software at the specific rate. Since this option was still janky for you, there is something else going on. Like you said, the other machine seems fine.

(In reply to Julien from comment #51)
> OK so I made a test with Firefox 42 x86 and it's clearly smoother than x64
> even with hw vsync enabled. One the only webpages that was janky is :
> http://fr.audiofanzine.com/editorial/tests/   (and other audiofanzine
> content).
> The problem is I can't use firefox x86 because I have a bug with Flash
> player with this version.
> So could you test only firefox x64 builds with your Intel HD graphics 4400?
> 

How are you testing Firefox 42 x64? I don't think we have official builds of Firefox release for 64 bit. I just tested a nightly 64 bit official build and there wasn't any extra jankiness. If you have a problem with Flash, please file a new bug for that.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 53

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #52)
> 
> How are you testing Firefox 42 x64? I don't think we have official builds of
> Firefox release for 64 bit. I just tested a nightly 64 bit official build
> and there wasn't any extra jankiness. If you have a problem with Flash,
> please file a new bug for that.

There is an official stable version of firefox 42 x64, here : https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/latest/
They speak about that in that bug report : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1181014

Yes I have a problem with flash and a bug has been filed in adobe bug base since at least a year and they wasn't able to reproduce it. Yet there are many users complaining about that.
https://bugbase.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=bug&id=3692645
(Reporter)

Comment 54

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #52)
> I just tested a nightly 64 bit official build
> and there wasn't any extra jankiness.
Could you please make a try with firefox 42 x64 (without the patch)?
And with adblock plus to see if this add-on is the problem.
On http://www.programme-television.org/ for instance.
Scroll quickly up and down on a small lenght.
Thank you so much.

I have encountered some jank on 3 different computers with HW vsync.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(In reply to Julien from comment #54)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #52)
> > I just tested a nightly 64 bit official build
> > and there wasn't any extra jankiness.
> Could you please make a try with firefox 42 x64 (without the patch)?
> And with adblock plus to see if this add-on is the problem.
> On http://www.programme-television.org/ for instance.
> Scroll quickly up and down on a small lenght.
> Thank you so much.
> 
> I have encountered some jank on 3 different computers with HW vsync.

Can you please uninstall adblock plus. Do not install any add-ons or extensions while testing. With the other 3 computers, please uninstall adblock. With the other 3 computers, do they jank without hardware vsync?
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 56

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #55)
> (In reply to Julien from comment #54)
> > (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #52)
> > > I just tested a nightly 64 bit official build
> > > and there wasn't any extra jankiness.
> > Could you please make a try with firefox 42 x64 (without the patch)?
> > And with adblock plus to see if this add-on is the problem.
> > On http://www.programme-television.org/ for instance.
> > Scroll quickly up and down on a small lenght.
> > Thank you so much.
> > 
> > I have encountered some jank on 3 different computers with HW vsync.
> 
> Can you please uninstall adblock plus. Do not install any add-ons or
> extensions while testing. With the other 3 computers, please uninstall
> adblock. With the other 3 computers, do they jank without hardware vsync?

The 3 computers are : mine, the other one in my house and a computer in Hamburg, Germany that I tested once (but not with hw vsync disabled) and that is far away from the place I live (Noirmoutier, France).
I already tested the two first computers previously.

My question is : do you have jank with hw vsync on and adblock plus in firefox 42 x64? just to know if adblock plus is the problem...
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(In reply to Julien from comment #56)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #55)
> > (In reply to Julien from comment #54)
> > > (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #52)
> > > > I just tested a nightly 64 bit official build
> > > > and there wasn't any extra jankiness.
> > > Could you please make a try with firefox 42 x64 (without the patch)?
> > > And with adblock plus to see if this add-on is the problem.
> > > On http://www.programme-television.org/ for instance.
> > > Scroll quickly up and down on a small lenght.
> > > Thank you so much.
> > > 
> > > I have encountered some jank on 3 different computers with HW vsync.
> > 
> > Can you please uninstall adblock plus. Do not install any add-ons or
> > extensions while testing. With the other 3 computers, please uninstall
> > adblock. With the other 3 computers, do they jank without hardware vsync?
> 
> The 3 computers are : mine, the other one in my house and a computer in
> Hamburg, Germany that I tested once (but not with hw vsync disabled) and
> that is far away from the place I live (Noirmoutier, France).
> I already tested the two first computers previously.

Sorry, looking back at the comments it was unclear to me if on the other computer in your house, if it was worse with hardware vsync disabled. Just on that computer, if test only on that computer, without adblock plus, on Gecko 42, on a clean profile, is it worse with hardware vsync? Please only compare to the same machine.

> 
> My question is : do you have jank with hw vsync on and adblock plus in
> firefox 42 x64? just to know if adblock plus is the problem...

I tested on Windows 10 and 7 on http://fr.audiofanzine.com/editorial/tests/ using the binary from https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/42.0/win64/en-US/. Windows 10 was fine with or without hardware vsync and with or without adblock plus. Windows 7 was janky with or without hardware vsync and with or without adblock plus. Can you please uninstall adblock plus and see if it fixes your issue? IF you want to test if adblock plus is the problem, please uninstall it so you can also test.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 58

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #57)
> Just
> on that computer, if test only on that computer, without adblock plus, on
> Gecko 42, on a clean profile, is it worse with hardware vsync? Please only
> compare to the same machine.
On that second home computer, it's a bit smoother and the scrolling is more constant with HW vsync disabled. With HW vsync enabled, it's smooth then there's a sudden jerk so it's not stable.

Note : please do not ask me to make more tests on that second computer I'm not "authorized" to use it... :)


> I tested on Windows 10 and 7 on http://fr.audiofanzine.com/editorial/tests/
> using the binary from
> https://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/firefox/releases/42.0/win64/en-US/. Windows 10
> was fine with or without hardware vsync and with or without adblock plus.
> Windows 7 was janky with or without hardware vsync and with or without
> adblock plus. Can you please uninstall adblock plus and see if it fixes your
> issue? IF you want to test if adblock plus is the problem, please uninstall
> it so you can also test.
I tried to uninstall adblock plus but it didn't fix the issue. I made some tests on google and audiofanzine.

I noticed that you have found that it was janky on Windows 7. So maybe this bug is not yet unconfirmed?
Is this situation change the status of the bug? I know that I'm testing with windows 8.1 but as I said before I found jank on a third machine in Hamburg, which was running windows 7.
Do you think that you could improve smoothness of scrolling on a machine running win 7 or win 8.1 ?
Thanks! ;-)
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Updated

3 years ago
Whiteboard: [mozfr-community]
(In reply to Julien from comment #58)
> I tried to uninstall adblock plus but it didn't fix the issue. I made some
> tests on google and audiofanzine.
> 
> I noticed that you have found that it was janky on Windows 7. So maybe this
> bug is not yet unconfirmed?
> Is this situation change the status of the bug? I know that I'm testing with
> windows 8.1 but as I said before I found jank on a third machine in Hamburg,
> which was running windows 7.
> Do you think that you could improve smoothness of scrolling on a machine
> running win 7 or win 8.1 ?
> Thanks! ;-)

The plan to improve smoothness across all machines is e10s + APZ, which is underway. We don't know when it'll ship though :(. Thanks for testing, but I can't seem to reproduce this nor is this very widespread it seems. Sorry :(.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
If you can specifically test a clean profile with your machine in hamburg, and see if it's better / worse with hardware vsync, that'd be good to know. Otherwise, there isn't much actionable things I can do since I can't reproduce this. This bug is specifically related to scrolling being worse with hardware vsync enabled, not scrolling being janky in general. Those sites should scroll better with APZ / e10s. If not, please file a bug that blocks bug 1178298.
(Reporter)

Comment 61

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #60)
> If you can specifically test a clean profile with your machine in hamburg,
> and see if it's better / worse with hardware vsync, that'd be good to know.
> Otherwise, there isn't much actionable things I can do since I can't
> reproduce this. This bug is specifically related to scrolling being worse
> with hardware vsync enabled, not scrolling being janky in general. Those
> sites should scroll better with APZ / e10s. If not, please file a bug that
> blocks bug 1178298.

I cannot test the machine in Hamburg, I live in France not Germany...
The scrolling is smoother in Nightly 45 64-bit, even without apz + e10s. It's better with apz + e10s but I have a bug that I already talked about before (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1153156).

I have a question as a last resort : 
could you delete the 3 hardware vsync preferences only in Firefox 45, not 43?
I would be great to me and to the people who have jank problems with hw vsync.
At the moment, right now, I'm forced to disable these prefs in order to have decent scrolling.
Thanks indeed.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 62

3 years ago
Please keep these 3 hw vsync preferences until firefox 45. It's VERY unpleasant to scroll with hardware vsync and the pref "layout.frame_rate" doesn't work (I don't see any differences).
(In reply to Julien from comment #61)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #60)
> > If you can specifically test a clean profile with your machine in hamburg,
> > and see if it's better / worse with hardware vsync, that'd be good to know.
> > Otherwise, there isn't much actionable things I can do since I can't
> > reproduce this. This bug is specifically related to scrolling being worse
> > with hardware vsync enabled, not scrolling being janky in general. Those
> > sites should scroll better with APZ / e10s. If not, please file a bug that
> > blocks bug 1178298.
> 
> I cannot test the machine in Hamburg, I live in France not Germany...
> The scrolling is smoother in Nightly 45 64-bit, even without apz + e10s.
> It's better with apz + e10s but I have a bug that I already talked about
> before (https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1153156).
> 
> I have a question as a last resort : 
> could you delete the 3 hardware vsync preferences only in Firefox 45, not 43?
> I would be great to me and to the people who have jank problems with hw
> vsync.
> At the moment, right now, I'm forced to disable these prefs in order to have
> decent scrolling.
> Thanks indeed.

No, sorry we can't :(. It's been deleted for a while and re-implementing it won't really work. If Firefox 45 is better than Firefox 43, then something other than vsync is causing the issue / fixed it. The vsync implementation hasn't changed in Firefox 40. You can try running mozregression (http://mozilla.github.io/mozregression/) between Firefox 43 and 45 to see what fixed it. That might give a better hint as to why it's fixed. Unless it was bug 1210261. Is Firefox 44 better?
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 64

3 years ago
No I won't use mozregression. I don't mind what is the patch that improved the scrolling. I already tested Firefox 44 a week ago it was the same than Firefox 43.
(Reporter)

Comment 65

3 years ago
(In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #63)
> Is Firefox 44 better?
By the way why are you asking me if firefox 44 is better?  is there some improvements of project silk or scrolling in this version? are you hiding me something? ;-)
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 66

3 years ago
Another thing : I've noticed that the scrolling while the websites are loading is jerkier with hw vsync than without hw vsync.

Try on this website for instance http://cinemas-mimosas.jimdo.com/ with firefox 42. Load the main page then click on "programme", "tarifs", "noirmoutier" and scroll quickly to the bottom for each page.
On the two computers (intel and amd) I can test, the scrolling is better without hw vsync while the webpage is loading.
I really think that Project Silk can be improved.
(In reply to Julien from comment #65)
> (In reply to Mason Chang [:mchang] from comment #63)
> > Is Firefox 44 better?
> By the way why are you asking me if firefox 44 is better?  is there some
> improvements of project silk or scrolling in this version? are you hiding me
> something? ;-)

Was just trying to see if something else fixed it.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 68

3 years ago
(In reply to Julien from comment #66)
> Another thing : I've noticed that the scrolling while the websites are
> loading is jerkier with hw vsync than without hw vsync.
> 
> Try on this website for instance http://cinemas-mimosas.jimdo.com/ with
> firefox 42. Load the main page then click on "programme", "tarifs",
> "noirmoutier" and scroll quickly to the bottom for each page.
> On the two computers (intel and amd) I can test, the scrolling is better
> without hw vsync while the webpage is loading.
> I really think that Project Silk can be improved.

Have you also noticed that? Thanks :)
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
No, because when a webpage is loading, lots of different things can happen that it's not a good test case. Anything the website is doing can prevent smooth scrolling, including any javascript executing, so it's very difficult to reproduce any stable scrolling measurements.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(Reporter)

Comment 70

2 years ago
Hello Mason,
are there any changes in the scrolling with hardware vsync enabled since firefox 42?
I talk about small bugs fixed for instance.
Thank you very much!

(I set the pref layout.frame_rate to 120 since FF 42)
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
(In reply to Julien L. from comment #70)
> Hello Mason,
> are there any changes in the scrolling with hardware vsync enabled since
> firefox 42?
> I talk about small bugs fixed for instance.
> Thank you very much!
> 
> (I set the pref layout.frame_rate to 120 since FF 42)

No there hasn't been any changes specifically related to vsync. Things might be better because of APZ / e10s.
Flags: needinfo?(mchang)
Julien, can you check if this still happens in Firefox Nightly? This would help validate if APZ/e10s has any affect.
Whiteboard: [mozfr-community] → [mozfr-community][gfx-noted]
(Reporter)

Comment 73

2 years ago
Hi Anthony,
I already checked in Nightly build, APZ/e10s improves a lot the scrolling, there is a big effect :)
I just have to wait for Firefox 49 stable release :-/
Per Comment #73, I'm marking this bug as WORKSFORME.
Status: UNCONFIRMED → RESOLVED
Last Resolved: a year ago
Resolution: --- → WORKSFORME
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