1308766 - Folders index shows "Groups (local) - sent" not existing

Status: RESOLVED INCOMPLETE

(Thunderbird :: Folder and Message Lists, defect)

Description

[TREMBLAY,Bernard]

Attachment: screenshot of list of folders (duplicate_sent_folders-for-group.jpg)

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:49.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/49.0
Build ID: 20160922113459

Steps to reproduce:

Send messages


Actual results:

Most of copy of sent message don't appears into "sent" folder.


Expected results:

Copy of messages should be written to "sent" always.

Searching and workaround :
====================
1- Many Sent messages lost : not written in 'sent' since a long time : not corrected (solution used all sent are sent in copy to a sentbox e-mail)
2 - Using QuickFolders : found 5 folders (duplicated into "index") with name "<my group boxes> (local folders) - sent" which are not reacheable QuickFolders says "folder not exist" (note that they are not standard indexes of folders it is the mains "folders" )
3- Moving messages to these folders doesn't raise any error

Then I may think that main "copy to sent" function does the same and messages sent are copied to a not existing "sent folder" (internal id different with the same external name), this without error found.
But I don't know where are indexed these "dummy" folders.

For now I don't try nor changes anything to the directory to be able to search easier.
The purpose is to repair definitively the production of these "sent" folders.
Note that the whole directory is very old : since 2005


Note : I hide because of joined screenshot contains e-mails addresses. You can unbind this screenshot then the problem can be shown.

Comment 1

[Kent James (:rkent)]

Axel, does this display of folders within QuickFolders represent a real problem? If so, from where does QuickFolders get the folder list?

I'm not sure that I understand the rest of this bug. "Send messages" is really not an adequate step to reproduce. I send messages all of the time with no problem, so this "works for me" as stated.

Comment 2

[TREMBLAY,Bernard]

Hi,
I am waiting from Axel the information : from where comes the index of folders displayed.

I have requested from Axel (Quickfolders users request) that if the error "folder doesn't exist" is raised when trying to write to, then the move operation should be cancelled, while currently mail are lost... in the future this problem have no bad consequences.

Depending of the source of this list, the problem can have the same cause of the lost of mails copied to "sent"... which "sent" folder ?

Most of user don't have such problem. May be it comes from the fact that my whole directory is twelve years old. I remember that in ancient versions the sent folder was named "<group name> - local - sent" while now it is a folder with a different name (only "sent") with a special icon "sent" (as can be seen into the list provided).

Do the folders found exist somewhere (probably) ? Do their existence can be the origin of the errro of "copy to sent"

These are my questions.

Comment 3

[Daniel Veditz [:dveditz]]

Hid the attachment.

Comment 4

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

> I am waiting from Axel the information : from where comes the index of folders displayed.

Any news?

Comment 5

[Axel Grude [:realRaven]]

(In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #2)
> Hi,
> I am waiting from Axel the information : from where comes the index of
> folders displayed.
> 
> I have requested from Axel (Quickfolders users request) that if the error
> "folder doesn't exist" is raised when trying to write to, then the move
> operation should be cancelled, while currently mail are lost... in the
> future this problem have no bad consequences.
> 
> Depending of the source of this list, the problem can have the same cause of
> the lost of mails copied to "sent"... which "sent" folder ?
> 
> Most of user don't have such problem. May be it comes from the fact that my
> whole directory is twelve years old. I remember that in ancient versions the
> sent folder was named "<group name> - local - sent" while now it is a folder
> with a different name (only "sent") with a special icon "sent" (as can be
> seen into the list provided).
> 
> Do the folders found exist somewhere (probably) ? Do their existence can be
> the origin of the error of "copy to sent"
> 
> These are my questions.

Do you have a bug number on 
https://www.mozdev.org/bugs/buglist.cgi?product=quickfolders
?

I understand you want to create tabs for the servers / accounts themselves? In thunderbird this is not possible, as you cannot drag the "mailbox nodes" from the tree. (However, in Postbox this is possible)

I am not sure I understand the information about "sent" folders, where are they missing? If it is in Local Folders, how would one send email from a local folder, is this even supported?

If you have tabs pointing to these folders, please try:

Right click Tab > QuickFolders Commands > Tab Specific Properties
In the Header Field (Advanced Properties) RIGHT CLICK to copy the Folder URL
paste the address here; example for one of my inboxes:

  mailbox://axel.grude@localhost/Inbox

Comment 6

[TREMBLAY,Bernard]

Hi,

My way to explain has led to a probably misunderstanding, so I explain here (I hope) in a more clear way.

When I search to "envoyés" (sent) with Quickfolders, I find, 
1- for the special account : local group ("local folders" grouped), five instances with same name : "<my group name> - Envoyés"
2- One instance with icon and simple name "envoyés"

The second is identical to the display of folders and, if selected into list I reach the special and well known builtin folder "envoyés (sent)".

But a selection of any one of the five others leads to a warning message of Quickfolder "could not find folder".
So my conclusion is : They are listed but they don't exist (more, they are not displayed into the tree, they are phantoms of ancient folders, I believe).

I don't think that the problem comes from Quickfolders but it is a revelator : these folders, which name comes from ancient versions of TH, don't exist physically but are listed where Quickfolder is seeking to build his list of folders and to select from.

Now, I can compare with another problem that I met since several years (and may be find the solution):
- the automatic copy of a message sent to the "group <envoyés>" often fails. May be this comes from this duplicated entries for "envoyés" ? I don't know.

Best regards

Trebly
______________________
Notes :   
- a workaround, I send an hidden copy to another mailbox which I collect separately.
- my mailboxes are old (begin 2005) some ones are completely separated, others are part of the group. I have a total of thirty mail boxes running, but only ten very active. I kept the others because they can be still referenced into inline sites sometimes visited.

Comment 7

[Axel Grude [:realRaven]]

(In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #6)
> Hi,
> 
> My way to explain has led to a probably misunderstanding, so I explain here
> (I hope) in a more clear way.
> 
> When I search to "envoyés" (sent) with Quickfolders, I find, 

"search to" - how exactly? There are numerous ways of "searching" folders in QuickFolders. You need to be more specific, otherwise this is still very very hard to follow.

> 1- for the special account : local group ("local folders" grouped), five
> instances with same name : "<my group name> - Envoyés"

"Local group" ?? I don't exactly know what you mean, I thought there is only _one_ Local Folders, and the rest should be real mailboxes (such as [e-mail]) - you could send me a screenshot to my email off this bug to make it clearer.

"my group name" - again, not quite sure what group name is, something following your own naming conventions? The only thing I can imagine (if we look at the folder tree) is when you enable View > Unified folders you would have something like this:

Sent
  mailbox1
  mailbox2
  ...
  Local Folders

is this what you mean?


> 2- One instance with icon and simple name "envoyés"
> 
> The second is identical to the display of folders and, if selected into list
> I reach the special and well known builtin folder "envoyés (sent)".
> 
> But a selection of any one of the five others leads to a warning message of
> Quickfolder "could not find folder".

Where are these listed? under the quickJump / quickMove button?


> So my conclusion is : They are listed but they don't exist (more, they are
> not displayed into the tree, they are phantoms of ancient folders, I
> believe).

You should probably raise a bug in my project:

http://quickfolders.org/bugs.html

> I don't think that the problem comes from Quickfolders but it is a revelator
> : these folders, which name comes from ancient versions of TH, don't exist
> physically but are listed where Quickfolder is seeking to build his list of
> folders and to select from.

Do these "invalid" folders have special icons (like a blue hat)? In that case, they could be pointing to invalid tabs; you can delete these by using the blue cogwheel > "Find orphaned tabs" feature (the icon is a broom)

Otherwise, in the quickJump and recent folders features, QuickFolders iterates all existing folders using a tried and tested iteration code, so it really shouldn't list anything non-existent. It is more likely that it lists something that does exist but has trouble accessing it (which may be due to an so far unknown URL encoding problem) - you should definitely raise a bug on my own bugzilla (link above).

You should see additional more helpful error messages in error console (CTRL+SHIFT+J) when you click one of the invalid links. There, you will get additional info when enabling "debug mode" in QuickFolders Options > advanced. If you right-click the debug  box you get to choose even more granular debug messages, of which you should enable: 

extensions.quickfolders.debug.interface

> Now, I can compare with another problem that I met since several years (and
> may be find the solution):
> - the automatic copy of a message sent to the "group <envoyés>" often fails.
> May be this comes from this duplicated entries for "envoyés" ? I don't know.

This is unlikely, sound more like an IMAP Problem to me. You should try and repair all your folders to see if indexes are corrupt if you are missing emails. (this won't repair invalid folder names)

> Notes :   
> - a workaround, I send an hidden copy to another mailbox which I collect separately.

what are you using to copy sent messages? Personally, I use "copy Sent to Current Addon" for many years (I do not keep a copy in Sent folder, ever)

> - my mailboxes are old (begin 2005) some ones are completely separated,
> others are part of the group. I have a total of thirty mail boxes running,
> but only ten very active. I kept the others because they can be still
> referenced into inline sites sometimes visited.

Shouldn't be a problem, but you should re-index your folders, in case some of them are broken. This may take a day or two if you have tons  of  emails (and no SSD). Have a look at Tools > Activity Manager to see whether you have a lot indexing going on.

Comment 8

[TREMBLAY,Bernard]

(In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #6)
>> Hi,
>> 
>> My way to explain has led to a probably misunderstanding, so I explain here
>> (I hope) in a more clear way.
>> 
>> When I search to "envoyés" (sent) with Quickfolders, I find, 

>"search to" - how exactly? There are numerous ways of "searching" folders in QuickFolders. You need to >be more specific, otherwise this is still very very hard to follow.

Clicking on the right icon used commonly to define destination of mail to move. This is shown clearly on the screen shot joined (hidden because of content names) 

>> 1- for the special account : local group ("local folders" grouped), five
>> instances with same name : "<my group name> - Envoyés"

>"Local group" ?? I don't exactly know what you mean, I thought there is only _one_ Local Folders, and >the rest should be real mailboxes (such as [e-mail]) - you could send me a screenshot to my email >off this bug to make it clearer.

It is the "Local Folders", I have named it ten year ago "Groupe local" and defined it as the "archive" folder for several accounts but not not for all which remain fully independant

>"my group name" - again, not quite sure what group name is, something following your own naming >conventions? The only thing I can imagine (if we look at the folder tree) is when you enable View > >Unified folders you would have something like this:

The "local folder" name which is a "group of mailboxes" built into local_folder (note I too copy the sent messages to the "sent" folder (parameter of the account "set a copy of sent messages" to "folder <envoyés(sent)> -> <my_name_for_local_folder>).

Sorry for misunderstanding but I must translate from French to English all UI word used without seeing the original english UI (may be I should use the translation file of TH-UI to write messages)

>Sent
>  mailbox1
>  mailbox2
>  ...
>  Local Folders

>is this what you mean?

No, You need to be able to look at the screen shot.

>> 2- One instance with icon and simple name "envoyés"
>> 
>> The second is identical to the display of folders and, if selected into list
>> I reach the special and well known builtin folder "envoyés (sent)".
>> 
>> But a selection of any one of the five others leads to a warning message of
>> Quickfolder "could not find folder".

>Where are these listed? under the quickJump / quickMove button?

See the screen shot, it is clear. I hope

>> So my conclusion is : They are listed but they don't exist (more, they are
>> not displayed into the tree, they are phantoms of ancient folders, I
>> believe).

>You should probably raise a bug in my project:

>http://quickfolders.org/bugs.html

I think that, as I told, impossible to reproduce on other installation than mine.
It is impossible to rebuild history. I do think that your read this phantoms and naturally display it. Then because they are phantom you cannot write to them.
It is not your problem (except a more explicit treatment telling particularly where your are looking for writing).
The problem comes from the index of folders you are seeking.

>> I don't think that the problem comes from Quickfolders but it is a revelator
>> : these folders, which name comes from ancient versions of TH, don't exist
>> physically but are listed where Quickfolder is seeking to build his list of
>> folders and to select from.

>Do these "invalid" folders have special icons (like a blue hat)? In that case, they could be pointing >to invalid tabs; you can delete these by using the blue cogwheel > "Find orphaned tabs" feature (the >icon is a broom)

Not at all. They are displayed as they where in ancient versions of TH...
"Find orphean TABS" doesn't answer to the question. I am quite sure that they are folders known in the index of the tree which have no physical folder associated.

>Otherwise, in the quickJump and recent folders features, QuickFolders iterates all existing folders >using a tried and tested iteration code, so it really shouldn't list anything non-existent. It is more >likely that it lists something that does exist but has trouble accessing it (which may be due to an so >far unknown URL encoding problem) - you should definitely raise a bug on my own bugzilla (link above).

It is the reason why I tell that the fist step is that your message send have to use "detailed informations" and give the url seeked.

>You should see additional more helpful error messages in error console (CTRL+SHIFT+J) when you click >one of the invalid links. There, you will get additional info when enabling "debug mode" in >QuickFolders Options > advanced. If you right-click the debug  box you get to choose even more >granular debug messages, of which you should enable: 

>extensions.quickfolders.debug.interface

SORRY, this cannot function because you catch the error.

>> Now, I can compare with another problem that I met since several years (and
>> may be find the solution):
>> - the automatic copy of a message sent to the "group <envoyés>" often fails.
>> May be this comes from this duplicated entries for "envoyés" ? I don't know.

This is unlikely, sound more like an IMAP Problem to me. You should try and repair all your folders to see if indexes are corrupt if you are missing emails. (this won't repair invalid folder names)

>> Notes :   
>> - a workaround, I send an hidden copy to another mailbox which I collect separately.

>what are you using to copy sent messages? Personally, I use "copy Sent to Current Addon" for many >years (I do not keep a copy in Sent folder, ever)

No I just add into destination of mail "send on hidden copy to" a specialized mail address. With this I get a consolidated box containing all what have been sent form any of my mail boxes with their joined files. This mail box, then, can be accessed independently from any mailbox tool.

>> - my mailboxes are old (begin 2005) some ones are completely separated,
>> others are part of the group. I have a total of thirty mail boxes running,
>> but only ten very active. I kept the others because they can be still
>> referenced into inline sites sometimes visited.

>Shouldn't be a problem, but you should re-index your folders, in case some of them are broken. This >may take a day or two if you have tons  of  emails (and no SSD). Have a look at Tools > Activity >Manager to see whether you have a lot indexing going on.

Thanks? I will copy the profile the the system SSD before, then use this profile to perform and see difference or any problem (the current getting the back-up role). My mailboxes need to be cleaned, I do this at time to time because it is long to build good "archives", it cost much more than seeking an old box and keeping alive some gb commonly unused.

Probably this will destroy the phantom entries or folders involved.
But this don't changes the need to manage better the writing (or opening) error of a physically missing folder. The reasons, as you tell can be multiple. To know which physical folder is involved is important to find the error.

Best regards
Trebly

Comment 9

[TREMBLAY,Bernard]

Hi,

I am checking all threads not closed.

I think that the problem is the following :

I have a total of 68 accounts and 44 visible in accounts and folders tree

1- I have, because of parameters three types of mail boxes 
    a- True locally hold mailboxes which are fully independent
    b- Mailboxes for which there is an account displayed and a copy is produced into the "main inbox"
    c- Mailboxes which are hold from main inbox 

2- with so many account because there is no way to export accounts settings into a database (or cvs, or xml file) it is difficult to verify and check behavior. This with more the fact that filters can produce copies or move mails from one to another.

I have no time just now to perform the necessary detailed checks, but I think that what is (was) happening is that when I answers from a copy of a mail done into "main inbox" the answer is managed as defined into the corresponding box. Then the answer is not visible into the "sent" of the "main box" if this is not defined.

I am am not fully sure of me I must create an excel folder to copy the parameters and check the cases.

So I do believe that the problem is a problem of management of many accounts with a lot of parameters and ways to produce copy.

It should be natural to get into the "sent box" of the "main" any copy of sent mails "from this box" (means here while I am manipulating from and I choose from the list using the plugin  "identity chooser" and can answer from a copy with a pre-selected sender).

Depending of the real sender parameters the sent message can, not to produce a copy of sent to "main sent". This can be interpreted as "the sent message is not in the 'sent box'".

Consequently the sent messages (answers or not) can naturally appear or not into the sent box of the main-box, this is normal but not natural. This produced that I have not a view of "what has been sent form here - here means this TH management" useful for work management.

To workaround I have created a special box "my-sent-mails" to which I always send a copy (then I have two copies of sent mails)
 
There is probably no software problem, I am not absolutely sure, but there is surely a management problem for large applications with many accounts.

So a request could be a "export accounts parameters" extension. 
Note :The "accountex" extension is not compatible with recent versions of TH

Comment 10

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

This also needs to be tested using version 60

Comment 11

[TREMBLAY,Bernard]

Hi, 
Taken in account today. 
A current problem is to be able to find a process to get a solution for any user. 
I explain : If when I reinit a TH installation with version 60 and the problem have gone away, how I could proceed with several users which have various versions and various extensions ?  
I will test on a new computer : - install TH 60 - initiate the mail account - Check into the current installation the detailed parameters and filters. 
It seems that there is a parameters coherence problem, I must analyse the account for which the copy seems to fail. 
The copy to "sentbox" is done from some account into the sentbox attached to the "local-group" and sometimes into the "sentbox" of the account himself only and in some other cases nowhere . 
The variability of the parameters makes the check difficult and need a matrix to describe all cases and the observed result.  

njote that I found another problem with the answers (Re:) which are not copied into sent while the first message, initializer of the "discussion" was copied. 

I group the tests.  

As I explained, for now, I always send from any account an "hiddencopy" to a mailbox "copy_of_sent" to be sure to get easily a copy of sent messages

Comment 12

[Phoenix]

(In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #11)
> Hi, 
> Taken in account today. 
> A current problem is to be able to find a process to get a solution for any
> user. 
> I explain : If when I reinit a TH installation with version 60 and the
> problem have gone away, how I could proceed with several users which have
> various versions and various extensions ?  
It is not clear why they cannot update from those versions to 60?

Resolving this per whiteboard, feel free to reopen if you still see the issue with version 60