1412993 - mozilla.dev.security.policy posts not getting propagated to Google Groups

Status: RESOLVED INVALID

(Infrastructure & Operations :: Infrastructure: Mail, task)

Description

[Kathleen Wilson]

I posted two messages to mozilla.dev.security.policy this morning, and they are not showing up here:

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mozilla.dev.security.policy

However, I can see them via the Thunderbird news reader.

Here's the full header for one of them:
~~

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Path: buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:50:50 -0500
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
X-Original-To: [e-mail]
Delivered-To: [e-mail]
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org
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X-Spam-Score: -0.05
X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.05 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-0.05] autolearn=ham
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: Sender is authorized to use '[e-mail]' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_spf.google.com' matched)) receiver=mailman2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="[e-mail]"; helo=mail-qk0-f199.google.com; client-ip=209.85.220.199
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:path:newsgroups:date:complaints-to :injection-info:nntp-posting-host:user-agent:mime-version:message-id :subject:from:injection-date:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=j5pSYvVMT8IEh83PWKAMQJpNEo0wd02p09IR3APfmR8=; b=ObihnSvxSwQwkOA8DtjTriv04nPfyzW45lak0JKJhJ42LhKDtXSoJUABxgMyaOf6jl o+eeqMJMJQQnLl1EJEZ2hoFnExPUAWQWgBJDjxrkT4v0e1NZcyaki0TjE2Vy52jZX59O F6/RBSzomK2M9p3ffw0YlBhH3vYwOL9L0Uo4BZrs+pK9mIl8P5/+nXi75Dvm6jRGRX/z Snic5m8uUWlHw+zn6Drqm8f7YQ5qJLu/8GnXMGYxbBAeN1V/C1PJ62Vd5Eg+30ZV9FLe lluRHgUEzWO/HPuEOGYd18CfRr9zTiqrHDNBADtdFA/PCOMiWdLrd8mNRpM3wJa0wkqM ccdQ==
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X-Received: by 10.55.170.83 with SMTP id t80mr14402982qke.20.1509393046224; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.157.12.211 with SMTP id o19mr762392otd.0.1509393046168; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:50:46 -0700 (PDT)
Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.security.policy
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:50:45 -0700 (PDT)
Complaints-To: [e-mail]
Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.4.33.215; posting-account=2wN4AwoAAACGkHplEvVEYOAKI8-alqDp
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: ETSI audits not listing audit periods
From: Kathleen Wilson <[e-mail]>
Injection-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 19:50:46 +0000
To: [e-mail]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-BeenThere: [e-mail]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of security-related policies, governance, and related topics; and responsibility for the Mozilla CA certificate policy." <dev-security-policy.lists.mozilla.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-security-policy>, <mailto:[e-mail]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:[e-mail]>
List-Help: <mailto:[e-mail]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-security-policy>, <mailto:[e-mail]?subject=subscribe>
Approved: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Lines: 73
X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com
NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.245.214.181
X-AuthenticatedUsername: NoAuthUser
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X-DMCA-Complaints-To: [e-mail]
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers
X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly
X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Bytes: 6722
Xref: number.nntp.giganews.com mozilla.dev.security.policy:16898
~~

Comment 1

[Kathleen Wilson]

I still don't see the above message in 
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mozilla.dev.security.policy
only in Thunderbird newsreader.

But someone responded, and I see their response in groups.google.com, and I was able to respond. My response has shown up both places. In case it helps, here's the full header for the response that worked...

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Path: buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 16:39:46 -0500
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
X-Original-To: [e-mail]
Delivered-To: [e-mail]
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.05
X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.05 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-0.05] autolearn=ham
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: Sender is authorized to use '[e-mail]' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_spf.google.com' matched)) receiver=mailman2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="[e-mail]"; helo=mail-qk0-f198.google.com; client-ip=209.85.220.198
X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:path:newsgroups:date:in-reply-to:complaints-to :injection-info:nntp-posting-host:references:user-agent:mime-version :message-id:subject:from:injection-date:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=J+6MNCwutQ3FsO+shVHgMYRZ2TVCIlpM9LziVENzMqo=; b=eCU4mUjOXZk50WKfWgREax322fCbD1n+XHfIKREA4lW8rTxsQ30pzPm7kxlwQVXvxL fBKENV2pvTV3K2QnFvcdhgc1MgPxxodBBNmtFWNyt4L/l8LjGGnxx8U1MuPYG78xxgRJ Wj61B+QaPaxSGVNApQ8FkaIgeVoopyD4z8rTIRVC0lZJwrKH+SX+R22gw/H5EyGnAvlM 4FGLL+81+FVmm8530Tb/K0Vle9zp8NCY0vFKpxKS+t1YUxkD859RrXFwrdHLXxJI32in VoY/CB5oXmQVWJMuqOE0maU6AZTIHPc1k3UlLtbQRwQhgrRTtzVQzn7brhFA2fGBXhuE u/xQ==
X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXfqQWyYNLTTYAAvGNqGUhuMnKtz7x9t0nw8Ro7D8tzSFg5kjYo omxZnqi2x96LQlSaPgr3r03e6MrpB0YNHPKdWM0=
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X-Received: by 10.200.41.195 with SMTP id 3mr28652893qtt.45.1509399581364; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:39:41 -0700 (PDT)
X-Received: by 10.157.14.201 with SMTP id 67mr770299otj.4.1509399581212; Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:39:41 -0700 (PDT)
Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.security.policy
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 14:39:40 -0700 (PDT)
In-Reply-To: <[e-mail]>
Complaints-To: [e-mail]
Injection-Info: glegroupsg2000goo.googlegroups.com; posting-host=24.4.33.215; posting-account=2wN4AwoAAACGkHplEvVEYOAKI8-alqDp
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
User-Agent: G2/1.0
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: ETSI audits not listing audit periods
From: Kathleen Wilson <[e-mail]>
Injection-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 21:39:41 +0000
To: [e-mail]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
X-BeenThere: [e-mail]
X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.18
Precedence: list
List-Id: "Discussion of security-related policies, governance, and related topics; and responsibility for the Mozilla CA certificate policy." <dev-security-policy.lists.mozilla.org>
List-Unsubscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/options/dev-security-policy>, <mailto:[e-mail]?subject=unsubscribe>
List-Post: <mailto:[e-mail]>
List-Help: <mailto:[e-mail]?subject=help>
List-Subscribe: <https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-security-policy>, <mailto:[e-mail]?subject=subscribe>
Approved: [e-mail]
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
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X-Postfilter: 1.3.40
Bytes: 10497
Xref: number.nntp.giganews.com mozilla.dev.security.policy:16900
~~

Comment 2

[Gervase Markham [:gerv]]

FWIW, I can see these messages on news.mozilla.org.

Gerv

Comment 3

[Kathleen Wilson]

(In reply to Gervase Markham [:gerv] from comment #2)
> FWIW, I can see these messages on news.mozilla.org.

Yep, that's what the Thunderbird newsreader uses.

Unfortunately, the message never showed up here:
https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/mozilla.dev.security.policy

Comment 4

[Kathleen Wilson]

This has also happened to another person, so not just me. Here's their full header:

-------- Forwarded Message --------
Path: buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 12:36:14 -0500
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
X-Original-To: [e-mail]
Delivered-To: [e-mail]
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.04
X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.04 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-0.05, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham
Authentication-Results: mailman2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=globalsign.com
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From: Doug Beattie <[e-mail]>
To: mozilla-dev-security-policy <[e-mail]>
Subject: Incident Report : GlobalSign certificates with ROCA Fingerprint
Thread-Topic: Incident Report : GlobalSign certificates with ROCA Fingerprint
Thread-Index: AdNRpXt4iU486wLgQMG1yLlqQYSphA==
Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2017 17:35:39 +0000
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Comment 5

[Kathleen Wilson]

And here's another message from me that shows up in news.mozilla.org but not in groups.google.com.


-------- Forwarded Message --------
Path: buffer1.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 13:12:25 -0500
Return-Path: <[e-mail]>
X-Original-To: [e-mail]
Delivered-To: [e-mail]
X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mozilla.org
X-Spam-Flag: NO
X-Spam-Score: -0.049
X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.049 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-0.05, KAM_SHORT=0.001] autolearn=ham
Received-SPF: pass (google.com: Sender is authorized to use '[e-mail]' in 'mfrom' identity (mechanism 'include:_spf.google.com' matched)) receiver=mailman2.mail.scl3.mozilla.com; identity=mailfrom; envelope-from="[e-mail]"; helo=mail-qk0-f200.google.com; client-ip=209.85.220.200
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Newsgroups: mozilla.dev.security.policy
Date: Tue, 31 Oct 2017 11:12:19 -0700 (PDT)
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Comment 6

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

According to the headers, that last one was actually posted on Google Groups.  If it's not showing up on Google Groups it must have gotten deleted after it was posted (and after it propagated to news.m.o.)

Comment 7

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

oh, take that back, the group is listed as moderated, and they posted via Google Groups which emailed it to the mailman gateway for moderation.  So it still needed to propagate the approved version back the other way.

Comment 8

[Kathleen Wilson]

(In reply to Dave Miller [:justdave] ([e-mail]) from comment #7)
> oh, take that back, the group is listed as moderated, and they posted via
> Google Groups which emailed it to the mailman gateway for moderation.  So it
> still needed to propagate the approved version back the other way.

I'm looking at the held messages now, and don't see it:
https://screenshots.firefox.com/sdk9EEwGT9w1wc8V/lists.mozilla.org

Comment 9

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

If it's showing up on news.mozilla.org, it already cleared the moderator queue.  But it may be a clue if all of the messages that are missing on Google Groups were actually posted from there.

Comment 10

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

i.e. maybe they're seeing the stuff in the headers that says GGroups was used to post it and assuming they already have it and are ignoring it, forgetting that they sent it to a third party moderator instead of posting it the first time.

Comment 11

[Kathleen Wilson]

I think you are correct about the problem being with posting the message via Google Groups.
I just posted a message via Thunderbird (news.mozilla.org), and it very promptly showed up in both places.

Comment 12

[Ed Lim [:limed]]

I've filed a support ticket on the groups side of things about this

Comment 13

[Kathleen Wilson]

The problem is still happening. The following message showed up in Thunderbird (news.mozilla.org), but has not shown up in Google Groups. Doug confirmed that he sent this as a reply via the Google Groups web page.

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Path: buffer2.nntp.dca1.giganews.com!nntp.mozilla.org!news.mozilla.org.POSTED!not-for-mail
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On Monday, November 6, 2017 at 6:40:58 AM UTC-5, Ben Laurie wrote:
> On 4 November 2017 at 19:54, Kathleen Wilson via dev-security-policy <
> [e-mail]> wrote:
> 
> > On 11/4/17 5:36 AM, Daniel Cater wrote:
> >
> > I think those CAs need to re-validate their recently issued SSL certs that
> > contain any *.tg domains, and possibly revoke such certs and send us the
> > info so corresponding entries can be added to OneCRL. But, as this is new
> > to me, I will appreciate thoughtful and constructive input in this.
> 
> 
> Since CT is not (yet) compulsory, it seems you probably have to contact all
> CAs, doesn't it?

Do we believe that this issue has been resolved by the Registry and issuance an resume as normal, or are there ongoing concerns which CAs should be aware of when issuing certificates to .tg domains?

~~~

Comment 14

[Kathleen Wilson]

Another very important message that did not show up in Google Groups (see below). 

Ed, Is there any way you can get the priority for the Google support ticket bumped up?


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Comment 15

[Kathleen Wilson]

(In reply to Ed Lim [:limed] from comment #12)
> I've filed a support ticket on the groups side of things about this

Please send me the Google Support ticket #/details. Or post whatever information you can about it here.

Thanks!

Comment 16

[Ed Lim [:limed]]

I've reached out again to the support person and they still have no gotten back to me, I might have to escalate this but this was the latest response

<snip>
Is this easily reproducible?  One possibility is that the posting got incorrectly flagged as spam/abuse and got auto-deleted.  I tried tracking down the Message-ID of what you attached but wasn't able to track it down in our audit logs.  Do you have any more sample?

</snip>

And then I provided more headers but still no response

Comment 17

[Ryan Sleevi]

(In reply to Ed Lim [:limed] from comment #16)
> I've reached out again to the support person and they still have no gotten
> back to me, I might have to escalate this but this was the latest response
> 
> <snip>
> Is this easily reproducible?  One possibility is that the posting got
> incorrectly flagged as spam/abuse and got auto-deleted.  I tried tracking
> down the Message-ID of what you attached but wasn't able to track it down in
> our audit logs.  Do you have any more sample?
> 
> </snip>
> 
> And then I provided more headers but still no response

Ed: Do you have any further details you can mail Kathleen (or myself) to potentially escalate? I'd like to see this resolved as quickly as possible, so happy to find the appropriate colleagues here at Google to ensure we can look into this.

Comment 18

[Dave Miller [:justdave]]

Ryan, all the info you need should be in this bug report already. The short version is in comments 9 and 10.

Comment 19

[Ryan Sleevi]

(In reply to Dave Miller [:justdave] ([e-mail]) from comment #18)
> Ryan, all the info you need should be in this bug report already. The short
> version is in comments 9 and 10.

Dave: I'm trying to find out the existing support ticket number or details going on, so I can get the right details to the right people :) (Comment #16 should have a ticket number)

Comment 20

[Kathleen Wilson]

(In reply to Ryan Sleevi from comment #19)
> (In reply to Dave Miller [:justdave] ([e-mail]) from comment
> #18)
> > Ryan, all the info you need should be in this bug report already. The short
> > version is in comments 9 and 10.
> 
> Dave: I'm trying to find out the existing support ticket number or details
> going on, so I can get the right details to the right people :) (Comment #16
> should have a ticket number)

This has moved to email.

Comment 21

[Kai Engert [:KaiE:]]

Kathleen, FWIW, I had experienced similar issues in the past with the dev-tech-crypto newsgroup. As a consequence at that time, I had changed the list info page to point to different archive sites, see
  https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-tech-crypto

You could check if the archives at the following site is more complete:
  https://www.mail-archive.com/[e-mail]/

If it is, you could consider to edit the list info page
  https://lists.mozilla.org/listinfo/dev-security-policy
to point to the more complete archive.

Comment 22

[Ryan Sleevi]

Kai: Is your concern simply about backfill of 'missed messages', rather than ongoing delivery?

Comment 23

[Kai Engert [:KaiE:]]

I would like to see an archive as complete as possible, past and future, hosted on the web, rather than a newsgroup server, so past posts are discoverable. Mozilla doesn't currently host a web based archive, and Google Groups seems to be incomplete, based on the report in this bug, and also based on my experiences with dev-tech-crypto from the past. I don't know if www.mail-archive.com is complete, but it was complete whenever I was checking for messages in the past.

Comment 24

[Greg Cox [:gcox]]

The nntp gateway, and mailman, were decom'ed. Closing this out.