When tying to create a folder child of a mail_account, a child of inbox is always created

UNCONFIRMED
Unassigned

Status

Thunderbird
Folder and Message Lists
UNCONFIRMED
19 days ago
4 days ago

People

(Reporter: TREMBLAY,Bernard, Unassigned)

Tracking

52 Branch

Firefox Tracking Flags

(Not tracked)

Details

Attachments

(2 attachments)

(Reporter)

Description

19 days ago
Created attachment 8939526 [details]
Folders-children-b80103-01.jpg

User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36 (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/65.0.3309.0 Safari/537.36

Steps to reproduce:

Create a child folder of standalone account


Actual results:

Offers 
1- name of new folder
2- the choice (combo) of creatinf a folder of 
     1- the box 
     2- any element of the full tree (all accounts and subfolders)

When the account is created as child of the account (not the inbox) a child is always created into the inbox


Expected results:

Create a folder at the right place : as sibling of the inbox.

This affect heavily the capabilities of synchronisation of IMAP boxes.

When IMAP local folder structure is imported the childs of Inbox which are not "special folders" are imported as siblings.

Because of IMAP folders options on server this creates confusions complexified by the capability of naming the special folders and picking them into the tree.

A consequences is, in my opinion, that an "INBOX folder with children specials accounts" is exported (case OVH) but remains always empty.

This doesn't affect the Local Group.
The special folders of TH-INBOX are managed (recognized and managed)
- Drafts (Brouillons)
- Models (Modèles)
- Sent (Envoyés)
- Archive (Archive)
- Junk (Indésirables)

But TRASH is not managed !!!

This has effects on the whole IMAP synchronisation in my opinion.

Note : About image joined : 
1- the "test enfant du compte" folder has been created  as child of the account not inbox
2- See the INBOX in italics which corresponds to the IMAP server INOBOX but remains anyway empty

Updated

18 days ago
Group: mail-core-security

Comment 1

18 days ago
(In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #0)
> Created attachment 8939526 [details]
> Folders-children-b80103-01.jpg
> 
> User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36
> (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/65.0.3309.0 Safari/537.36
> 
> Steps to reproduce:
> 
> Create a child folder of standalone account
> 
> 
> Actual results:
> 
> Offers 
> 1- name of new folder
> 2- the choice (combo) of creatinf a folder of 
>      1- the box 
>      2- any element of the full tree (all accounts and subfolders)
> 
> When the account is created as child of the account (not the inbox) a child
> is always created into the inbox
> 
> 
> Expected results:
> 
> Create a folder at the right place : as sibling of the inbox.

Is your working inbox called "Courrier Entrant"? I assume that since your locale seems to be FR the actual INBOX displays as that? Or did you rename it to that?

> 
> This affect heavily the capabilities of synchronisation of IMAP boxes.
> 
> When IMAP local folder structure is imported the childs of Inbox which are
> not "special folders" are imported as siblings.
> 
> Because of IMAP folders options on server this creates confusions
> complexified by the capability of naming the special folders and picking
> them into the tree.
> 
> A consequences is, in my opinion, that an "INBOX folder with children
> specials accounts" is exported (case OVH) but remains always empty.
> 
> This doesn't affect the Local Group.

What is "Local Group"? Do you mean local folders?

> The special folders of TH-INBOX are managed (recognized and managed)
> - Drafts (Brouillons)
> - Models (Modèles)
> - Sent (Envoyés)
> - Archive (Archive)
> - Junk (Indésirables)
> 
> But TRASH is not managed !!!

I see trash under <your account marked out>/Courrier Entrant/Inbox/Trash
What do you mean by "not managed"? For deleted emails to go to  Trash you have to select the trash folder in the "server settings" screen and also select the corresponding "radio button". Otherwise deleted emails will only be "marked as deleted" and not go to trash folder.

> 
> This has effects on the whole IMAP synchronisation in my opinion.
> 
> Note : About image joined : 
> 1- the "test enfant du compte" folder has been created  as child of the
> account not inbox

Actually, "test enfant du compte" seems to be a child of "Courrier Entrant"? But I suppose that is what you are saying is the bug?

> 2- See the INBOX in italics which corresponds to the IMAP server INOBOX but
> remains anyway empty

Where did this italic "INBOX" come from. Did you create it or did it come from you server when you created the account or synchronized the account?

Is the main problem when you create a new folder under your account (marked out) that the folder goes under "Courrier Entrant" and not at the same level as "Courrier Entrant"? If so, this may be due to your IMAP server. Do you know the vendor of your imap server? 

Also, when you create a new folder are you right clicking on the account name and not on "Courrier Entrant"? That should, by default, create the new folder at the same level as Inbox (called Courrier Entrant) and not inside Courrier Entrant. 

If this doesn't help, we will next need for you to generate an IMAP log so we can see what your IMAP server is doing when you create the new folder. You can find information for this here: https://wiki.mozilla.org/MailNews:Logging

Comment 2

18 days ago
I just occurred to me that, in your case, "trash not managed" might be due to Bug 1427507. New trash folders that are inside or below the INBOX may not work even when selected in server settings. The fix for this bug has not been released but there is a work-around for it. Quoting from the bug description"

This can be resolved by setting the delete method to either "Just mark it as deleted" or "Remove it immediately" in the server settings and click OK. Then in server settings again select "Move it to this folder: alt-trash on <my-acct>" and click OK. Now the trash icon is present on INBOX/alt-trash and deletions are moved there and not lost. Having to do this to obtain the expected result (and avoid possible date loss!) is not intuitive.
(Reporter)

Comment 3

18 days ago
(In reply to gene smith from comment #1)
> (In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #0)
> > Created attachment 8939526 [details]
> > Folders-children-b80103-01.jpg
> > 
> > User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64) AppleWebKit/537.36
> > (KHTML, like Gecko) Chrome/65.0.3309.0 Safari/537.36
> > 
> > Steps to reproduce:
> > 
> > Create a child folder of standalone account
> > 
> > 
> > Actual results:
> > 
> > Offers 
> > 1- name of new folder
> > 2- the choice (combo) of creatinf a folder of 
> >      1- the box 
> >      2- any element of the full tree (all accounts and subfolders)
> > 
> > When the account is created as child of the account (not the inbox) a child
> > is always created into the inbox
> > 
> > 
> > Expected results:
> > 
> > Create a folder at the right place : as sibling of the inbox.
> 
> Is your working inbox called "Courrier Entrant"? I assume that since your
> locale seems to be FR the actual INBOX displays as that? Or did you rename
> it to that?
> 
----------- Not renamed
> > 
> > This affect heavily the capabilities of synchronisation of IMAP boxes.
> > 
> > When IMAP local folder structure is imported the childs of Inbox which are
> > not "special folders" are imported as siblings.
> > 
> > Because of IMAP folders options on server this creates confusions
> > complexified by the capability of naming the special folders and picking
> > them into the tree.
> > 
> > A consequences is, in my opinion, that an "INBOX folder with children
> > specials accounts" is exported (case OVH) but remains always empty.
> > 
> > This doesn't affect the Local Group.
> 
> What is "Local Group"? Do you mean local folders?

------------- Yes : The full folders tree contains :
1- The individual accounts : managed separately (except filters) for "archives of messages" (sorry I must translate from French interface, I cannot switch dynamically to English version) I uses "Save archive in : other for Archives, Drafts and Models generally. The defined folder is then the special folder of the account. Then, except action of filters, these account are fully independent.
It is in these account that the problem of child folders occurs. 

2- Archive folder of "Grouped : Local folders" (default associated name in directory is "...AllMail.defaultl\Mail\Local Folders". This is the "special account with no identity" which I have named "BTy-Groupe (Dossiers locaux) (no more very accurate).
For this special account The Child folders are well created and special folders associated (Draft, Models, Sent, Archives, Junk, waiting messages -- Shown in French) are defined at the same level (sibling) as the "inbox" into the group.

> 
> > The special folders of TH-INBOX are managed (recognized and managed)
> > - Drafts (Brouillons)
> > - Models (Modèles)
> > - Sent (Envoyés)
> > - Archive (Archive)
> > - Junk (Indésirables)
> > 
> > But TRASH is not managed !!!
> 
> I see trash under <your account marked out>/Courrier Entrant/Inbox/Trash
> What do you mean by "not managed"? For deleted emails to go to  Trash you
> have to select the trash folder in the "server settings" screen and also
> select the corresponding "radio button". Otherwise deleted emails will only
> be "marked as deleted" and not go to trash folder.
> 

-------- "not managed" : no Trash appears and creating and naming a folder "trash or in french 'Corbeille'" doesn't change anything : this can be 1427507. But this appears after verification only on one account, the one I was setting parameters to make it work as I meant to be accurate. I am going to test using recommendations for 1425507

> > 
> > This has effects on the whole IMAP synchronisation in my opinion.
> > 
> > Note : About image joined : 
> > 1- the "test enfant du compte" folder has been created  as child of the
> > account not inbox
> 
> Actually, "test enfant du compte" seems to be a child of "Courrier Entrant"?
> But I suppose that is what you are saying is the bug?
> 
--- Exactly

> > 2- See the INBOX in italics which corresponds to the IMAP server INOBOX but
> > remains anyway empty
> 
> Where did this italic "INBOX" come from. Did you create it or did it come
> from you server when you created the account or synchronized the account?

---- By synchro from server 
Complementarily I checked to create a child of the account on server, the result is :
1- The folder is created on server at same level as Inbox but it appear in "synchro of subcriptions" (obliged if you want immediate synchro) as child of INBOX
> 
> Is the main problem when you create a new folder under your account (marked
> out) that the folder goes under "Courrier Entrant" and not at the same level
> as "Courrier Entrant"? If so, this may be due to your IMAP server. Do you
> know the vendor of your imap server? 
> 
--- Yes OVH but I don't know the origin for now, but I don't think it come from server, I explain
The red structure is wrong, but as when you create it from local TH current view you generate the same error I imagine that the bug is both into the algorithm of the tree red and written. More this occurs for first level : so I imagine a problem of level index for the account during beginning of tree walker (and more-more doesn't occur for local folder).

> Also, when you create a new folder are you right clicking on the account
> name and not on "Courrier Entrant"? That should, by default, create the new
> folder at the same level as Inbox (called Courrier Entrant) and not inside
> Courrier Entrant. 
> 
--- I checked both : Click on account from combo and click on account into the full tree (into the full tree there are explicitly two separate lines, this is clear and perfect.

> If this doesn't help, we will next need for you to generate an IMAP log so
> we can see what your IMAP server is doing when you create the new folder.
> You can find information for this here:
> https://wiki.mozilla.org/MailNews:Logging

--- For now, because the error appears in TH when you create a child of the account before any synchro with server, my feeling tells me about a problem of level numbering difference between TH and the Server combined with tree walker for first level.

Comment 4

18 days ago
Bernard, I found this Bug 1195424 that I think describes what you see, or at least similar. It has lots of stuff to read but I don't think a fix was found. The reporter of that bug, also I think in France, offered to provide a test account (password and user id) on OVH server that was never provided, as far as I can tell. If you can provide me a temporary test account on the OVH imap server that would greatly help in possibly understanding and resolving the problem.
(Reporter)

Comment 5

18 days ago
HiGene,

The account (user) is 
bugzilla-TH-1427725@trebly.net
passw : xFMmvxTMqtyB

server ssl0.ovh.net
port : 993

SSL/TLS
std passwd

url for OVH Roundcube : https://mail.ovh.net/roundcube

Empty

Comment 6

17 days ago
Thanks, The test account helps a lot! Will let you know what I find...

Comment 7

16 days ago
The only real problem I see using the test account is that, with a Trash folder designated and tb is restarted or if the folder tree for the account is collapsed and then expanded, tb re-creates the trash folder at Inbox.Inbox.Trash. This causes the grey INBOX to appear as in the reporter's attachment and for the Trash folder to appear twice, at Inbox/Trash and at Inbox/Inbox/Trash.

The fix for this requires small a modification to the patch submitted for Bug 1427507. This problem is closely related since the OVH server (also Dovecot) uses the '.' as the folder delimiter. However, the OVH server also includes a personal namespace prefix that is not handle correctly by that patch.

When a folder is created under the account or under INBOX it always goes under INBOX, never at the same levels as INBOX. This is because the OVH server (which is actually Dovecot) is configured with personal namespace "INBOX.". You can fool tb into putting newly created folders at the same level as INBOX by going to the Advanced server setting and clearing the "Personal namespace" string from "INBOX." to blank and unchecking the "Allow server to override these namespaces". But as soon as the folder tree is rebuilt, on tb restart or tree collaspe/expand, Dovecot reports the actual folder location as under INBOX and tb displays it as Dovecot reports it, as it should.

The Roundcube webmail page appears to show all the top-level folders at the same level as INBOX. However, this is just an illusion since OVH/Dovecot reports them all as under INBOX. Notice you can create a sub-folder of any folder except of INBOX using Roundcube (since all new folders with parent "---" are actually parent INBOX).  Here is an IMAP command used by tb (obtained by connecting to OVH server with openssl) that shows the actual folder structure that I have set up as reported by the server:

3 list "" "*"
* LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.xxxYYYzzz"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Sent"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Tempates"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.zzz-child-of-<bugzilla-TH-142775@trebly.net"
* LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX.Deplorables"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Deplorables.even-worse"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Drafts"
* LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX.less-stuff"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.less-stuff.more-stuff-under-less"
* LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX.things"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.things.new-from-roundcube"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.yyy-child-of-inbox"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.new-folder"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Recycle Basket"
* LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Archives"
3 OK List completed.

I will attach screenshot of tb with this structure. I assume you can see the roundcube webmail page for this.

Comment 8

16 days ago
Created attachment 8940403 [details]
Folder structure for test account

Compare this to the roundcube page at https://mail.ovh.net/roundcube

The "special folders" (Sent, Junk, Drafts, Templates and Archives) have to be manually set in tb at the "Copies and Folders" and "Junk Settings" configuration pages. This is because the OVH server (just a standard every-day Dovecot server) does not support SPECIAL-USE or even the older but deprecated XLIST capability. If it did, tb would automatically figure out which folder had which special purpose and auto-configure them.

In roundcube you can designate Sent, Junk, Drafts and Trash as special folders. However, this is not remembered by Dovecot and conveyed to TB in any way.

Also, except a Trash folder when none is found and delete method is "move to trash" and except for the bug pointed out in the previous comment where tb incorrectly tries to create a "new" trash folder at Inbox.Inbox.Trash, tb does not automatically create folders, special or otherwise.

Note also, in the screenshot the greyed out folder with name "zzz-child-of-<bugzilla-TH-142775@trebly is not-selectable (greyed out) because it was manually created as a sub-folder of the account with the name "zzz-child-of-<bugzilla-TH-142775@trebly.net". Since dovecot sees "." as the delimiter it creates the subfolder "net". This can be seen in roundcube too.

Updated

14 days ago
Duplicate of this bug: 1195424

Comment 10

10 days ago
Bernard,
We have been working on your issues but in other bug reports. I think we are making good progress. I really appreciate you providing the "real-world" test account to evaluate the fixes! I hope you don't mind if I keep using it a while longer.
Specifically, we have been working on these bugs that are closely related to and possibly the root cause of your issues:
Bug 1335982
Bug 1428666
(Reporter)

Comment 11

10 days ago
(In reply to gene smith from comment #7)
note : I could not end nor sent it till now and this is a summary. 
So what is following after the my summary is the beginning of the draft which begins by the citation but not already with comments and has to lonely interest to recall the original comment to which I was answering.

Summary
--------
The general idea is the comparison between the displays for user.
Currently when a tree is displayed if there are indented items regardless another they are supposed to be children.

Practically it is complex because there is three levels to consider :
1 - the true content of the internal description of the tree in the context on server
2-  The display for user on roundcube interface (what is viewed by user)
3-  Data transmitted by server to TH
4-  DATA of tree interpreted by TH
5-  Tree displayed by TH (what is viewed by user)

This must treated in several cases (creation is generic for creation, content collector and destroy - move to other folder, trash, items treatment when marked deleted truly moved to trash, completely deleted):

1- Creation of a child of the account in TH interface and what is transmitted until display in roundcube
2- Creation of a child of "inbox" in TH interface and what is transmitted until display in roundcube
3- Creation of a child of any other folder in TH  and what is transmitted until display in roundcube
4- Creation of a child of any other folder in roundcube  and what is transmitted until display in TH

The display should respect the withdraw of the user in both interfaces and interfaces synchronisation.

finally : which rule to define parameters in both context to reach the purpose.

Note : I have tested four things :
----------------------------------
- association between special folders in roundcube and the tree of folders (as it appears in parameters::folder-tree
- creation of child folders of any common folder in TH and view in roundcube, content verification
- the same reverse

- something not fully tested and not successful : synchronization of all TH users when a folder is created (or deleted) from : a local view in TH by a user and same from roundcube interface. For this I planned a teamviewer session with a user

For memo
--------
Hi,
Let's go following your first block of analysis :

Note that, naturally, this is your trace and view of the list commands of the folders, not the view of the user.

> The only real problem I see using the test account is that, with a Trash
> folder designated and tb is restarted or if the folder tree for the account
> is collapsed and then expanded, tb re-creates the trash folder at
> Inbox.Inbox.Trash. This causes the grey INBOX to appear as in the reporter's
> attachment and for the Trash folder to appear twice, at Inbox/Trash and at
> Inbox/Inbox/Trash.
> 
> The fix for this requires small a modification to the patch submitted for
> Bug 1427507. This problem is closely related since the OVH server (also
> Dovecot) uses the '.' as the folder delimiter. However, the OVH server also
> includes a personal namespace prefix that is not handle correctly by that
> patch.
> 
> When a folder is created under the account or under INBOX it always goes
> under INBOX, never at the same levels as INBOX. This is because the OVH
> server (which is actually Dovecot) is configured with personal namespace
> "INBOX.". You can fool tb into putting newly created folders at the same
> level as INBOX by going to the Advanced server setting and clearing the
> "Personal namespace" string from "INBOX." to blank and unchecking the "Allow
> server to override these namespaces". But as soon as the folder tree is
> rebuilt, on tb restart or tree collaspe/expand, Dovecot reports the actual
> folder location as under INBOX and tb displays it as Dovecot reports it, as
> it should.
> 
> The Roundcube webmail page appears to show all the top-level folders at the
> same level as INBOX. However, this is just an illusion since OVH/Dovecot
> reports them all as under INBOX. Notice you can create a sub-folder of any
> folder except of INBOX using Roundcube (since all new folders with parent
> "---" are actually parent INBOX).  Here is an IMAP command used by tb
> (obtained by connecting to OVH server with openssl) that shows the actual
> folder structure that I have set up as reported by the server:
> 
> 3 list "" "*"
> * LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.xxxYYYzzz"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Sent"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Tempates"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "."
> "INBOX.zzz-child-of-<bugzilla-TH-142775@trebly.net"
> * LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX.Deplorables"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Deplorables.even-worse"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Drafts"
> * LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX.less-stuff"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.less-stuff.more-stuff-under-less"
> * LIST (\HasChildren) "." "INBOX.things"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.things.new-from-roundcube"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.yyy-child-of-inbox"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.new-folder"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Recycle Basket"
> * LIST (\HasNoChildren) "." "INBOX.Archives"
> 3 OK List completed.
> 
> I will attach screenshot of tb with this structure. I assume you can see the
> roundcube webmail page for this.

Comment 12

10 days ago
I am not completely understanding what you are saying. Again I must mention, thanks to your bug report and other recent reports, there have been several bugs fixed for IMAP servers such as yours that user a personal namespace, such as yours "INBOX.", and use a '.' hierarchy separator as yours does too. This is probably why you see the inner (grey) INBOX and other folders under it. However, the fixes for this have not yet been formally released.

If you can ignore the inner (gray) INBOX for now, I can suggest a workaround that will allow the TB folder structure to appear just like they way Roundcube displays it.

Go to the Server Settings TB screen for your account. Click the Advanced... button. Notice that the "Personal namepace" box contains "INBOX.". Don't change this. Now at the top enter into the box labeled "IMAP server directory" the text INBOX just like you see in the Personal namespace box but *without* the quotes and without the '.'/dot. Once INBOX is entered, click the OK buttons and return to the main TB screen.

You will not immediately see a difference. You must either restart TB or just go to the "down arrow" beside your account name and click it. This will collapse your folder tree. Then click the same arrow again to restore the tree. You should see everything under Inbox/"Courrier Entrant" now.

With this change, when you create a new folder under the account, it will appear to be at the same level as Inbox. Also, TB will exactly match the folders seen in Roundcube (although the order may differ some).

Comment 13

10 days ago
I will attempt to answer your issues below.

(In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #11)
> (In reply to gene smith from comment #7)
> note : I could not end nor sent it till now and this is a summary. 
> So what is following after the my summary is the beginning of the draft
> which begins by the citation but not already with comments and has to lonely
> interest to recall the original comment to which I was answering.
> 
> Summary
> --------
> The general idea is the comparison between the displays for user.
> Currently when a tree is displayed if there are indented items regardless
> another they are supposed to be children.
> 
> Practically it is complex because there is three levels to consider :
> 1 - the true content of the internal description of the tree in the context
> on server
> 2-  The display for user on roundcube interface (what is viewed by user)
> 3-  Data transmitted by server to TH
> 4-  DATA of tree interpreted by TH
> 5-  Tree displayed by TH (what is viewed by user)
> 
> This must treated in several cases (creation is generic for creation,
> content collector and destroy - move to other folder, trash, items treatment
> when marked deleted truly moved to trash, completely deleted):
> 
> 1- Creation of a child of the account in TH interface and what is
> transmitted until display in roundcube
> 2- Creation of a child of "inbox" in TH interface and what is transmitted
> until display in roundcube

Actually, with your OVH/Dovecot IMAP server, a folder created under the account and under Inbox are the same. Every new folder goes under Inbox because your server is configured with the personal (or private) namespace "INBOX." TB/TH can not control this. Only your email service provider OVH can possibly change this.

When created on TB, you will see the new folder in Roundcube. Or if created in Roundcube, you will see the new folder in TB.

> 3- Creation of a child of any other folder in TH  and what is transmitted
> until display in roundcube
> 4- Creation of a child of any other folder in roundcube  and what is
> transmitted until display in TH

A folder created under a folder other than Inbox (or Courrier Entrant) *is* created under that folder. Again, if created in TB, it will appear in Roundcube, and vice versa.

> 
> The display should respect the withdraw of the user in both interfaces and
> interfaces synchronisation.

I assume this mean if an email is deleted on TB it should also be deleted on Roundcube, and vice versa? This seems to work for me.

> 
> finally : which rule to define parameters in both context to reach the
> purpose.
> 
> Note : I have tested four things :
> ----------------------------------
> - association between special folders in roundcube and the tree of folders
> (as it appears in parameters::folder-tree
> - creation of child folders of any common folder in TH and view in
> roundcube, content verification
> - the same reverse
> 
> - something not fully tested and not successful : synchronization of all TH
> users when a folder is created (or deleted) from : a local view in TH by a
> user and same from roundcube interface. For this I planned a teamviewer
> session with a user.

Again, I don't see a problem with the test account regarding the synchronization between TB and Roundcube. If I copy an email to a folder on TB and then look at the same folder on Roundcube, the email is there.

> 
> For memo
> --------
> Hi,
> Let's go following your first block of analysis :
> 
> Note that, naturally, this is your trace and view of the list commands of
> the folders, not the view of the user.

To the IMAP server, everything is under the namespace INBOX, which is how TB by default shows it too. In Roundcube, the folders only appear to be siblings of INBOX, and as I suggested in my previous comment, you can also make TB show all the folders at the same level as Inbox. However, this does not change how they are stored on the IMAP server.
(Reporter)

Comment 14

5 days ago
(In reply to gene smith from comment #12)
> I am not completely understanding what you are saying. Again I must mention,
> thanks to your bug report and other recent reports, there have been several
> bugs fixed for IMAP servers such as yours that user a personal namespace,
> such as yours "INBOX.", and use a '.' hierarchy separator as yours does too.
> This is probably why you see the inner (grey) INBOX and other folders under
> it. However, the fixes for this have not yet been formally released.
> 
> If you can ignore the inner (gray) INBOX for now, I can suggest a workaround
> that will allow the TB folder structure to appear just like they way
> Roundcube displays it.
> 
> Go to the Server Settings TB screen for your account. Click the Advanced...
> button. Notice that the "Personal namepace" box contains "INBOX.". Don't
> change this. Now at the top enter into the box labeled "IMAP server
> directory" the text INBOX just like you see in the Personal namespace box
> but *without* the quotes and without the '.'/dot. Once INBOX is entered,
> click the OK buttons and return to the main TB screen.
> 
> You will not immediately see a difference. You must either restart TB or
> just go to the "down arrow" beside your account name and click it. This will
> collapse your folder tree. Then click the same arrow again to restore the
> tree. You should see everything under Inbox/"Courrier Entrant" now.
> 
> With this change, when you create a new folder under the account, it will
> appear to be at the same level as Inbox. Also, TB will exactly match the
> folders seen in Roundcube (although the order may differ some).

I apologize, I red what I wrote and could not myself really understand what I wrote...
Nevertheless what you have answered is OK and answers to most of the questions.

Only for information what follows is closer of what I meant (in my mind as I can formulate today) :

RE-WRITTEN (in reply to gene smith from comment #7)
--------------------------------------------------
note : I could not  end nor send my answer to your comment #7 until now and what I send to you today is a summary of a reformulation of the idea and too a guide for analysis because it remains some problems. 

Summary
------------
The general idea is : what are criteria to analyse and compare the displays for user. Do we have checked everything ?
Currently when a tree is displayed if there are items shown as indented regard to another they are supposed to be children for an end user.

Practically the analysis is complex because there are five views for interpretation to take in account :
1 - the true content of the internal description (data) of the tree in the context on server
2-  The display for user on roundcube interface (what is viewed by user)
3-  Data transmitted by server to TB
4-  DATA of tree interpreted by TB
5-  Tree displayed by TB (what is viewed by user)

This must be considered in several cases (note : below "Action on" means : on element of tree folder or leave - mail item -  generic for creation, content collector and destroy - move to other folder, trash, items treatment when marked deleted truly moved to trash, completely deleted):

1 - "Action on" of a child of the account in TB interface and what is transmitted until display in roundcube
2 - "Action on" a child of "inbox" in TB interface and what is transmitted until display in roundcube
3 - "Action on" a child of any other folder in TB  and what is transmitted until display in roundcube
4 - "Action on" a child of any other folder in roundcube  and what is transmitted until display in TB

The display should respect the purpose of the user in both the interfaces views and interfaces synchronization.

Finally : which rule to define parameters in both context to reach the purposes ?.

Note : I have tested four things :
----------------------------------
- association between special folders in roundcube and the tree of folders (as it appears in parameters::folder-tree
- creation of child folders of any common folder in TB and view in Roundcube, content verification
- the same reverse

- something not fully tested and seems not successful : synchronization of all TB users when a folder is created (or deleted) from : a local view in TB by a user and same from Roundcube interface. For this I planned a Teamviewer session with a user.
(Reporter)

Comment 15

5 days ago
(In reply to gene smith from comment #13)

Reply and new : incident in updating tree on TB

Note that my text was like a check list, I used it to perform the test.
It is following this that I found the new incident related here at the end.

> I will attempt to answer your issues below.
> 
> (In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #11)
> > (In reply to gene smith from comment #7)
> > note : I could not end nor sent it till now and this is a summary. 
> > So what is following after the my summary is the beginning of the draft
> > which begins by the citation but not already with comments and has to lonely
> > interest to recall the original comment to which I was answering.
> > 
> > Summary
> > --------
> > The general idea is the comparison between the displays for user.
> > Currently when a tree is displayed if there are indented items regardless
> > another they are supposed to be children.
> > 
> > Practically it is complex because there is three levels to consider :
> > 1 - the true content of the internal description of the tree in the context
> > on server
> > 2-  The display for user on roundcube interface (what is viewed by user)
> > 3-  Data transmitted by server to TH
> > 4-  DATA of tree interpreted by TH
> > 5-  Tree displayed by TH (what is viewed by user)
> > 
> > This must treated in several cases (creation is generic for creation,
> > content collector and destroy - move to other folder, trash, items treatment
> > when marked deleted truly moved to trash, completely deleted):
> > 
> > 1- Creation of a child of the account in TH interface and what is
> > transmitted until display in roundcube
> > 2- Creation of a child of "inbox" in TH interface and what is transmitted
> > until display in roundcube
> 
> Actually, with your OVH/Dovecot IMAP server, a folder created under the
> account and under Inbox are the same. Every new folder goes under Inbox
> because your server is configured with the personal (or private) namespace
> "INBOX." TB/TH can not control this. Only your email service provider OVH
> can possibly change this.
> 

OK well understood

> When created on TB, you will see the new folder in Roundcube. Or if created
> in Roundcube, you will see the new folder in TB.
> 
An incident to this related at the end


> > 3- Creation of a child of any other folder in TH  and what is transmitted
> > until display in roundcube
> > 4- Creation of a child of any other folder in roundcube  and what is
> > transmitted until display in TH
> 
> A folder created under a folder other than Inbox (or Courrier Entrant) *is*
> created under that folder. Again, if created in TB, it will appear in
> Roundcube, and vice versa.

That is OK but the incident is on TB which doesn't show a creation of subfolder.

> 
> > 
> > The display should respect the withdraw of the user in both interfaces and
> > interfaces synchronisation.
> 
> I assume this mean if an email is deleted on TB it should also be deleted on
> Roundcube, and vice versa? This seems to work for me.
>
OK 
> > 
> > finally : which rule to define parameters in both context to reach the
> > purpose.
> > 
> > Note : I have tested four things :
> > ----------------------------------
> > - association between special folders in roundcube and the tree of folders
> > (as it appears in parameters::folder-tree
> > - creation of child folders of any common folder in TH and view in
> > roundcube, content verification
> > - the same reverse
> > 
> > - something not fully tested and not successful : synchronization of all TH
> > users when a folder is created (or deleted) from : a local view in TH by a
> > user and same from roundcube interface. For this I planned a teamviewer
> > session with a user.
> 
> Again, I don't see a problem with the test account regarding the
> synchronization between TB and Roundcube. If I copy an email to a folder on
> TB and then look at the same folder on Roundcube, the email is there.
> 
OK not found anything with mails but incident on one computer for folders
> > 
> > For memo
> > --------
> > Hi,
> > Let's go following your first block of analysis :
> > 
> > Note that, naturally, this is your trace and view of the list commands of
> > the folders, not the view of the user.
> 
> To the IMAP server, everything is under the namespace INBOX, which is how TB
> by default shows it too. In Roundcube, the folders only appear to be
> siblings of INBOX, and as I suggested in my previous comment, you can also
> make TB show all the folders at the same level as Inbox. However, this does
> not change how they are stored on the IMAP server.

Hi,

This is clear and provides all element needed to define rules to follow to create a suitable interface for end users.

Some little differences between the TB interface and RoundCube or others remains but can be explained to end users.

But I have gone on test and found a new problem :

Actions : 
1- Create a subfolder of an existing one (standard and common) in TB interface
2- Move a mail to this subfolder.

Results :
1- Roundcube : OK
2- On Android GMAIL : OK
3- another user on TB while sharing upgrades :
     - The subfolder has not appeared into the tree

When using into account main page "Advanced functions":"Manage folders subscription" (my translation of the interface from French to English),
I got a good tree.
Then the problem is that the displayed tree is not updated into the tree panel in correspondance.
Note that from the same computer a creation or change in folders is perfectly transmitted.

Note that the problem of the Trash special folder remains on this computer, there no valid trash folder (until now I could not test on another distant - Teamviewer session could not take place into our agendas). So on one computer Trash is well viewed while it is not on another (options are the same, but historically the first local account created for the mail account has been on the computer for which we get the error).
Important thing :  all my reporting has been seen on the account and the computer on which TB dysfunctions.

Best regards

Trebly

Comment 16

5 days ago
(In reply to TREMBLAY,Bernard from comment #15)
> (In reply to gene smith from comment #13)
> 
> Reply and new : incident in updating tree on TB
> 

> 
> Actions : 
> 1- Create a subfolder of an existing one (standard and common) in TB
> interface
> 2- Move a mail to this subfolder.
> 
> Results :
> 1- Roundcube : OK
> 2- On Android GMAIL : OK
> 3- another user on TB while sharing upgrades :
>      - The subfolder has not appeared into the tree
> 
> When using into account main page "Advanced functions":"Manage folders
> subscription" (my translation of the interface from French to English),
> I got a good tree.
> Then the problem is that the displayed tree is not updated into the tree
> panel in correspondance.
> Note that from the same computer a creation or change in folders is
> perfectly transmitted.

TB may not find the new folder instantly or automatically. There are two ways for a new folder to be found:
1. Collapse and then expand the folder tree using the small arrow beside the account name.
2. Restart TB.

This is only necessary if the new folder is created by another program such as on Roundcube or another TB instance. Folders created by TB are immediately visible in that TB instance (as you have noticed).

> 
> Note that the problem of the Trash special folder remains on this computer,
> there no valid trash folder (until now I could not test on another distant -
> Teamviewer session could not take place into our agendas). So on one
> computer Trash is well viewed while it is not on another (options are the
> same, but historically the first local account created for the mail account
> has been on the computer for which we get the error).
> Important thing :  all my reporting has been seen on the account and the
> computer on which TB dysfunctions.

Not 100% sure I understand your problem with the Trash folder. Can you not designate a "move to trash" folder and have deleted emails go to it?
(Reporter)

Comment 17

4 days ago
(In reply to gene smith from comment #16)

...
> TB may not find the new folder instantly or automatically. There are two
> ways for a new folder to be found:
> 1. Collapse and then expand the folder tree using the small arrow beside the
> account name.
> 2. Restart TB.
> 
This functions at restart only.
Nevertheless, because of event management and TB requests to server for mails upgrades, I think that it is possible to understand that a new empty folder can be upgraded only a TB restart. But I have for test added another constraint : a mail (for the example) have been moved from a well known folder to the new one. The result have been :
1- the mail has (normally) disappeared at mails actualization (timer) from the known folder
2- the new folder is not appearing and the mail simply disappear of the mailbox.

In my opinion this cannot be accepted as normal functioning : "currently mails moved to new folder created by another user disappear (problem of rights to see later, for now the rights are manually managed for the mailbox). Because of the simultaneous use of TB (activated permanently on computers) this is a source of errors when any user which manages folders and reorganize them.
  
I have a proposal :
-------------------
1- The use of "Advanced functions":"Manage folders subscription" validation (OK) automatically upgrades folders (TB views the new folder on this panel) forces synchronization (the true tree is known or got by the function).
2- If a mail, which is a leave of a new folder, has been loaded into server it is loaded as a new mail, then the folder is created too. This needs to identify mails moved to a new folder which is not necessarily simple (depends of available efficient functions to do this).
3- open close of a folder automatically performs for the folder what is done in (1)
4- Add a command on a folder "Verify and synchronize from server" (same as (3) or (1) for a pointed folder.
5- Click on a folder which have no children performs the same as (4)

Note : After this the alone case when a change is not seen is when a folder gets an empty child which is not pointed (clicked or open-closed) by the user. This case doesn't matter.

> This is only necessary if the new folder is created by another program such
> as on Roundcube or another TB instance. Folders created by TB are
> immediately visible in that TB instance (as you have noticed).
> 
OK, and with GMAIL Android because "open of folder" is a requested to the server task (tree is not pre-loaded) it is necessarily visible (just one level into one folder is visible)

> > 
> > Note that the problem of the Trash special folder remains on this computer,
> > there no valid trash folder (until now I could not test on another distant -
> > Teamviewer session could not take place into our agendas). So on one
> > computer Trash is well viewed while it is not on another (options are the
> > same, but historically the first local account created for the mail account
> > has been on the computer for which we get the error).
> > Important thing :  all my reporting has been seen on the account and the
> > computer on which TB dysfunctions.
> 
> Not 100% sure I understand your problem with the Trash folder. Can you not
> designate a "move to trash" folder and have deleted emails go to it?

I have nowhere "move to trash" command (for mails or folders), so it is impossible to "move to Trash" any object (I have named a folder Trash and another "Corbeille") but they behave (and go on to behave) like any folder.

Note that the Trash is never used into the box parameters, the defined organization is designed to use "Trash" manually by the box admin (defined on paper).
I have tested  attachment in Roundcube the special folder TRASH to one of these folders, this has no effect on local TB (it was forecastable).

Note that I am away for 10 days since now (return 01/31).
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