Message View with POP3/Maildir shows only the subject of previous message which is not selected in thread pane: Error file not found
Categories
(Thunderbird :: Untriaged, defect)
Tracking
(Not tracked)
People
(Reporter: c.buhtz, Unassigned)
Details
Attachments
(4 files)
User Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:84.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/84.0
Steps to reproduce:
Thunderbird 78.6.1 (32 Bit) on Windows 10.
Storage method is "maildir" (one file per message)
It isnot reproducable every time. So there are a lot of "some" in my report. But the problem appears from the beginning I am using "maildir" storage (~ 2 years).
I receive mails via POP3.
Sometimes when I click on a message in the message list to view its content in the message view I got a "file not found" error in the message view.
Actual results:
See the original in the attach screenshot.
The error (translated by me):
"Error: File not found
The file mailbox:///C:/Users/Buhtzy/ownCloud/MyAppContent/thunderbird-profile.default/Mail/mail.uni-halle-1.de-maildir/Inbox?number=1899 was not found."
I am aware that this is not the default profile path. But it is correct that way.
Please take a closer look on the screenshot.
I selected the second message in that list with subject "Re: Telepräsenz...".
But in the message view (with the error message) the subject is "VERANSTALTUNG: ..." which is the same as the third message in the list.
Does this give a hint?
A second hint:
The problem happens before filtering is done. The affected message (seond in the list) should not be stored in that folder. Because of a "Filter" it should be moved to another folder.
No, there is no "copy" of the message in the expected destination folder.
My mailserver (configured by my company) is configured that way that when it receives a DELETE MESSAGE command after delivering all inbox messages via POP3 it does not really delete but move them to the servers trash.
So when I log into my webinterface I can find the affected mail in my trash and bring it back again to servers inbox. This is how I treat this situations.
When again receive this message it is filter correct and shown without problems.
So I would hypothize that the problem depends not on the content of the message or its header.
Comment 1•4 years ago
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Magnus, one thing which is strange here is that message with subject "foo" is selected in thread pane, but message reader header shows the subject of the next message with subject "bar" when message display fails (see color marks in the attached screenshot). I think this should never happen, no matter what. Can you invite someone with knowledge of maildir?
Wayne, any other ideas? Repair folder (after full profile backup)? What (meta) data does 'repair folder' destroy?
Hallo Christian,
dein Szenario ist ziemlich kompliziert... Your scenario is pretty complex and so it will be pretty hard to reproduce this. Are you able to provide systematic step-by-step instructions how to arrive in this situation? You also need to include some of your settings...
- So you're using a Thunderbird POP account with MAILDIR storage, right?
- What are your retention settings for POP?
≡ > Account Settings > YourAccount > Server Settings > Leave messages on server
and sub-options? - More details on your incoming mail filter
- Were you viewing the "...Hochschule Harz" message before selecting the current message, "...Ortho-Praktikum" which failed to show? What if you view "... Videosystem" first and then "...Ortho-Praktikum" - will the message reader subject show "...Videosystem" instead, with error message?
Comment 2•4 years ago
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(In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #1)
dein Szenario ist ziemlich kompliziert... Your scenario is pretty complex and so it will be pretty hard to reproduce this.
Yeah, that is why I waited so long with that report.
Are you able to provide systematic step-by-step instructions how to arrive in this situation?
No. Sometimes yes sometimes no.
- So you're using a Thunderbird POP account with MAILDIR storage, right?
Correct.
- What are your retention settings for POP?
≡ > Account Settings > YourAccount > Server Settings > Leave messages on server
and sub-options?
It is disabled. (see screenshot)
- More details on your incoming mail filter
It is one of round about 40 filters and very late in that list. It filters by "From" field. See the screenshot.
Interesting question if this happens because of the filters. But I am sure that there is no other filter before that would touch that message!
Next interesting quesiton if this happens with unfiltered mails, too. I mean mails that does not fit to any filter. I am not sure about it but I would say yes. I'll keep an eye on it.
- Were you viewing the "...Hochschule Harz" message before selecting the current message, "...Ortho-Praktikum" which failed to show? What if you view "... Videosystem" first and then "...Ortho-Praktikum" - will the message reader subject show "...Videosystem" instead, with error message?
I am not sure about that. The mailbox changed in the last hours so I can not test it. But on my past experience I would say this does not modify the error behaviour. I will try next time.
Can you imagine that this could happen because of the ownCloud client running and syncing in background?
I am the only user and the only active client on that folder - definitly!
Comment 7•4 years ago
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No idea about this. Will be hard to understand if we can't reproduce.
Comment 8•4 years ago
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Can we remove maildir from the scenario with a non-maildir account?
Also, ownCloud may be involved. It's generally NOT a good idea to put profile data in a cloud service directory. (It doesn't matter that you are the only user)
(In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #1)
Created attachment 9198418 [details]
Screenshot 2: Subject of selected message is different from subject shown in message reader when message view failsMagnus, one thing which is strange here is that message with subject "foo" is selected in thread pane, but message reader header shows the subject of the next message with subject "bar" when message display fails (see color marks in the attached screenshot). I think this should never happen, no matter what. Can you invite someone with knowledge of maildir?
Mangus uses maildir :)
I don't use it. CCing some others who do.
Wayne, any other ideas? Repair folder (after full profile backup)? What (meta) data does 'repair folder' destroy?
Not really. CCing others.
(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #8)
Can we remove maildir from the scenario with a non-maildir account?
Sorry, I do not understand the English here. What do you mean?
Also, ownCloud may be involved.
My plan for the next month's is to "migrate" to an environment where ownCloud is not involved anymore. But just for testing. This will take month's (I would say 6 for secure) to say "OK, the error does not occure when ownCloud is not involved".
I will report back then.
It's generally NOT a good idea to put profile data in a cloud service directory. (It doesn't matter that you are the only user)
You wrote "generally". This is a recommandation without any evidence.
Technically it should work.
If not we should prove this and describe why it does not work.
Do you have any evidence or even a technical theory why it should not work?
Minimizing the influencing factors in a system is not good reason for such a recommandation (in productive environments).
I do not say that TB have to work with an sync client. But to announce an official recommandation not combine TB and sync there should be evident strict reason. I use TB (in mbox mode!) for over 10 years on different devices, plattforms and accounts without any sync problems!
The here described problem occurse only in mdir-mode which I use since last year.
Comment 10•4 years ago
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(In reply to c.buhtz from comment #9)
It's generally NOT a good idea to put profile data in a cloud service directory. (It doesn't matter that you are the only user)
You wrote "generally". This is a recommandation without any evidence.
Technically it should work.
If not we should prove this and describe why it does not work.
Do you have any evidence or even a technical theory why it should not work?
I'm speaking as a user and a 30+ year IT person when I say the following: While it may technically be possible to do what you're doing (if I am understanding this as storing a TB profile in the cloud and TB accessing it that way), it is not a good idea. Technically, you could put diesel into a car that takes gasoline and vice versa. It may "work" but probably poorly and cause the user more issues than it is worth doing so. Just because you can do it (and maybe have managed to do so), doesn't mean you should do it. You are going outside the normal way it's done by doing so. I guess I don't see this as a supported scenario for reasons I describe below. And today your setup may somewhat work but tomorrow the service provider for the cloud storage may make one change and break everything. IP addresses change. DNS entries and server names change. Having your profile local is static and unchanging unless you yourself change something. There is no guarantee of that if someone else is in control of it.
Maybe some time in the future cloud storage will be treated like a mapped drive and have the same persistence and 100% uptime/access as local storage does but I don't think we're anywhere near that yet. 100% uptime on someone else's service(s) is non-existent. Your computer (point A) and the remote storage (point B) are 100% dependent on >everything< working between point A & B. If even 1 thing goes wrong between those two points, you have zero access to your profile/data. What if the company goes bankrupt or their service goes down? There goes access to all your data. Why take the risk? Just my 2 cents.
Cloud storage of a user profile is IMHO outlier behavior and, I would think, doesn't have the same persistence that doing so on something like a mapped local LAN share or external storage device does. Not to mention the HUGE security risk you're accepting by putting not only your personal data but also your password info on 3rd party network/storage. It requires next to zero effort to copy a profile and bring it up on a machine if the data is compromised. If recent security breaches have taught us something, it's that 3rd party services get compromised way more than storing things locally where the user has full control of it.
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Comment 11•4 years ago
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Your arguments are out of my line. You are a user and a IT person. Nice. I am an user, IT person and scientist. Things must be proven for me! You speak about experience - which is evidence also but the lowest level of evidence. Mozilla will free the internet. So it must act a bit more professional at this point.
Just one point we agree is that TB does not have to support such a scenario. But this bug report is not about support politic but about technical details.
Again: Nobody (even you) does gave me technical reasons or theories why this should not work.
You only mentioned network issues. This does not matter. If the server is down the profile data is local available. And this is not about technical problems with the sync service. Everything (even the OS) can have problems. I speak about a well running (theoretical bug-free) sync service: Why shouldn't it work to put a TB profile in it!?
Even your security points are off topic here. But just a hint: I don't pay or use 3rd party companies for my cloud storage. And who says that I store passwords in the cloud? Is this possible with TB?
We disagree here and I think we won't fix this disagreement. ;)
I will report you back in some month how it goes with a none-cloud-synced-maildir-profile..
Comment 12•4 years ago
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Is the data locally available? Are you sure? Given the synchronised status of your data you, and I, have no idea of its actual state, and that is the thrust of Waynes comments which you suggested you did not follow. Whilst ever your data can not be guaranteed to be "local and available" then the synchronizing process is a factor that can not be discounted as causative.
Can your passwords be stored in the cloud?... Yes they can and are. You have posted the information to this bug that they are. The path in your report indicates your entire profile is in the cloud, so any passwords saved in Thunderbird are also going to be in the cloud because that is where Thunderbird stores passwords, in the profile.
I suggest you look at this basic information on resource contention. Then apply it to your synchronised files. While the error being displayed is not found. The reason it is not found is not offered. It could just as well be "unavailable because it is being synchronised right now because it is a new file". What error the operating system returns to Thunderbird when contention issues occur, and how Thunderbird as a product that considers all of the profile files its own and therefore available is somewhat problematical. What I do know is these synchronized profiles have a habit of creating hundreds of copies of control and data files because of contention issues. I have seen support cases with more than 100 copies of popstate.dat files and similar numbers of duplicated inbox files. Often starting out as complaints about these files showing up in the folder pane of Thunderbird or Thunderbird repeatedly downloading the same old messages over and over. Basically, any file that can be updated while a synchronisation occurs is prone to being duplicated with a -Number appended to the file name. What happens then is things can, and do, get out of sync. The graphic displaying of the wrong subject is a classic case in point. The index for the message (loaded when the list was filled) points to one version of the current data and the now synchronised file points to another.
Basically, you have been given good advice. Don't try and use cloud synchronisation for your profile data, it goes wrong repeatedly and somewhat predictably. It is only a matter of time. Why it happens is mostly due to contention issues, but just accept it is a bad idea with a lot of existing empirical evidence that it is not a wise course of action.
Comment 13•4 years ago
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I will report you back in some month how it goes with a none-cloud-synced-maildir-profile.
That would be very useful.
What we can say from the Thunderbird perspective is it is absolutely not recommended to use cloud storage, we don't manually test it and we don't have automated tests for it. So if it work for you that's great, but there is no guarantee that it will continue to work, and if some aspect of Thunderbird doesn't work because of cloud storage it's questionable whether we would commit resources to investigate. In other words, it cannot be considered to be 100% safe, use at your own risk.
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Comment 14•4 years ago
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I understand your point and agree. I would never expect to make special modifications to Thunderbird just to make it work with cloud storage and/or sync mechanisms. Even if TB would be a multi-million endless-resource company. ;)
From a theoretical point of view it should work and Thunderbird and even every other software should not take care about if such a sync/cloud software touches it's files. When ownCloud is the cause then ownCloud and/or the underlying filesystem has the problem not TB! It is simple. If the file is opened by another program (e.g. Thunderbird) do not sync it. But I am sure it is not that easy in reality. ;)
And that is why I want to investigate that. It is scientific interest. ;)
Updated•3 years ago
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Comment 15•3 years ago
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Just a sidenote at the end.
The last months I was not able to use Thunderbird anymore. This was because of a job change and the restriction to use a machine where I am not the admin and where I am not allowed to use TB.
Since one month I started again to use Thunderbird with the here reported profile, now in a Debian 11 environment and without a sync-client like own-/nextCloud. In this short period I did not perceive the problem. This period is IMHO to short to say that the problem is gone. I will monitor that I report back in the next months if the problems coming back.
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