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Comment 2

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3 years ago

As Andre rightly asked, can you elaborate on the reasons why you preferred the attachment pane in the header? Being a "fan" of it doesn't give us any hint.

In general, this is WONTFIX for me since the attachment pane in the header area was a nightmare to manage in terms of spacing, focus ring, handling many attachments, and keyboard accessibility.
We won't move it back for sure, and adding a pref to allow users to change its location doesn't make much sense.

Comment 3

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3 years ago

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Edited

As Alex pointed out, we probably wouldn't and couldn't provide an option to put the attachment pane back exactly where it was before, into the addressing area (although I actually liked it there, for the vertical orientation and for saving screen real estate, and I'm not sure if it was all that bad as portrayed, and nobody ever complained...).

However, I would welcome if we could provide an option for the user to have a vertical attachment list on the right side of the message body (underneath the addressing area, covering full body height). That might be simpler to implement and maintain, just add a sidebox and place the attachment pane inside, either always open (no toggle) or with some adjusted toggle show/hide mechanism.

Advantages:

User can keep the list of attachments open while composing (e.g. because he's commenting on them, incrementally adding more etc.) without sacrificing much of precious vertical space
Vertical list is more space-efficient as it occupies a horizontal chunk of the available space, and modern monitors are typically more wide than high.
Vertical list provides a much more tidy and easy to browse overview of attachments, especially for many attachments, for long file names, similar file names, or where their order matters (note that you can order attachments with Thunderbird, either manually or alphabetically).

Comment 4

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3 years ago

That feels pretty unusual, and also will introduce the necessity of redesigning how the collapsed pane would look in that sidebox.
Your list of advantages look more like very unique scenarios, except for the vertical space but than we have the collapsed state and the pane can be resized.
Also, your third case (long file names) a horizontal pane is more suited to accommodate that.

I don't have a strong opinion on this, but I don't think we should put much resources on this.
We can leave it open and set P5 so if any external contributor wants to get a stab at this we could consider it.

Priority: -- → P5

kanlukasz

Reporter

Comment 5

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3 years ago

My two cents:

A few releases ago, you provided a feature like the ability to reorder attachments. Now that the box with attachments is at the bottom and the attachments are not upright, their order is not intuitive.
Upright attachments postion (one above the other) was a lot clearer. Especially when the attachments had numbering in the name.

Flags: needinfo?(kanlukasz)

Comment 6

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3 years ago

(In reply to Andre Klapper from comment #1)

Please provide actual and specific use cases why this is important to you and why you need this so often, and how to justify increasing code complexity and maintenance costs, as adding more and more features does not come for free. Thanks.

Originally it was located at the top right so visibility was improved and less likely to not notice something missing.
I know the keywords work very well to remind you to attach a document but the code is not that clever that it knows the number of intended attachments.
I've already managed to send an email missing an attachment.
Some people add attachments at the start, others as they type and others add at the end of the email.
The top area where the headers reside is an area checked before eyes are moved to the top to click on Send.
It is unnatural to look below an email when composing especially if you have an auto added signature followed by disclaimers etc.

Muscle memory is not so quick to learn new changes and for people with eyesight issues or those who find new things hard to remember making changes to where Attachments are displayed can be very frustrating.

But it is hard for users to understand why they need to justify the need to be able to have clear visiblity or retain features in same area because of their physical or mental abilities when time and money was found by developers to change it when there was no apparent need.

increasing code complexity and maintenance costs, as adding more and more features does not come for free.

Perhaps it would be helpful to users if the developers could justify why time and money was put into this change in the first place.

Comment 7

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3 years ago

A few releases ago, you provided a feature like the ability to reorder attachments. Now that the box with attachments is at the bottom and the attachments are not upright, their order is not intuitive.

We're fixing this.

Perhaps it would be helpful to users if the developers could justify why time and money was put into this change in the first place.

"Justify" sounds a bit strong.
We have an internal process of evaluating UX improvements as well as code maintenance improvements. These changes are not done based on personal preferences but are proposed and evaluated by multiple core developers and approved by the technical director.
Anyway, these changes were originally highlighted and discussed here: https://thunderbird.topicbox.com/groups/ux/Tc490f5e48d4a1c39
And in bug 1640760.

Please, let's not rehash the past and avoid hijacking this bug with explanation requests, we got a mailing list for that :D

Comment 8

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3 years ago

a bit OT:

(In reply to Anje from comment #6)

I know the keywords work very well to remind you to attach a document but the code is not that clever that it knows the number of intended attachments.

When you are adding your first attachment and you're not sure if you want to add more, you could use Remind me later from Attach | v button dropdown (also available from many other spots). This will definitely pop up the attachment reminder at send time, regardless of the number of attachments added. You can even save templates with Remind me later preset (e.g. for regular reports which require an attachment), and it survives saving as draft, closing and reopening (I know because I've invented this). Were you aware of this feature? (short answer pls)

Comment 9

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3 years ago

(In reply to Thomas D. (:thomas8) from comment #8)

Were you aware of this feature? (short answer pls)

No. Thanks for info.

tom

Comment 10

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3 years ago

Having teh pane in the upper right corner is very useful as an a concise and well organized way to list all the attachments.

I am CPA and I often have to send clients multiple attachments. Frequently with as many as a dozen attachments at a time.

Having all the attachments in a list format makes it much easier to make sure you have everything attached that I meant to attach.

A list format just works better for presenting large amounts of data.

Accountants and others that work with multiple files all at once need a list....

Removing the Attachments pane is NOT progress. You are removing functionality.

u693495

Comment 11

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3 years ago

Yes, that would be my big wish too.
The clarity with only one look was simply better and faster. We users are certainly not against new features, but if they are not so good,
they should be able to be revised again.

kindly regards

Anna

Comment 12

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3 years ago

I have the same wish. In addition to the above, the previous layout was much better for people with vision issues and/or those of us who sometimes need to work on small screens. Please do not be dismissive when people struggle with accessibility - low vision is something than can happen to any computer user.

Comment 13

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3 years ago

Thank you all for your feedback.
Just to quickly touch on the vision issues, we implemented a Density control to increase the UI size, and we're working on implementing a global font size feature to give you full control.

As mentioned in comment 4, we're not against this feature or rejecting the idea, but we currently don't have the resources to create and maintain it.
We're open to contributions so if anyone wants to submit a patch, we'll be happy to review it and consider it.

Comment 14

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3 years ago

(In reply to Alessandro Castellani [:aleca] from comment #13)

Thank you all for your feedback.
Just to quickly touch on the vision issues, we implemented a Density control to increase the UI size, and we're working on implementing a global font size feature to give you full control.

As mentioned in comment 4, we're not against this feature or rejecting the idea, but we currently don't have the resources to create and maintain it.
We're open to contributions so if anyone wants to submit a patch, we'll be happy to review it and consider it.

Hi Alessando, it's good to hear about the 'Density' control information you mention that will be so much easier for people than the current situation. But it will not help those with more extreme eyesight cases. I have a friend who has very poor eyesight, their special size monitor is already set up with super large font, so it is not entirely about the font size. They now need to scroll and seriously search for the location of the Attachments. Also it is easier if attachments are in list format as the eye reads and counts a list one above the other more naturally than tracking sideways which may also involve more scrolling. The new positioning and lack of list format is a serious problem for those with eyesight disabilities.

d2_c2

Comment 15

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3 years ago

The bottom listing of the attachments is very difficult for many attachments. The string of attachments at the bottom is not easy to see or manage. I also have to constantly resize the window because the attachment area drops off. Even if it were above the message, it may be easier to manage. I do not profess to understand the coding issues, but usability has to be one of the criteria and having the attachment pane in header area was one of the reasons I liked TB over other clients. Liked the list over Outlook as well.

Comment 16

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3 years ago

This is information for those needing to move the location of the 'attachments'.
alta88 has produced an addon:
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/morelayouts/

kanlukasz

Reporter

Comment 17

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3 years ago

(In reply to Anje from comment #16)

This is information for those needing to move the location of the 'attachments'.
alta88 has produced an addon:
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/morelayouts/

This has nothing to do with the case described in this ticket
Here we are talking about the attachment panel when composing a message

Updated

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3 years ago

Summary: Ability to decide where the attachments panel will be displayed (right or bottom) → Ability to decide where composition's attachments panel will be displayed (right or bottom) - vertical list of attachments was very ergonomic

Comment 18

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3 years ago

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Edited

(In reply to kanlukasz from comment #17)

(In reply to Anje from comment #16)

This is information for those needing to move the location of the 'attachments'.
alta88 has produced an addon:
https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/morelayouts/

This has nothing to do with the case described in this ticket
Here we are talking about the attachment panel when composing a message

It would appear that you misunderstand.
I am well aware of the issue in this ticket.
My comment is relevant.
The addon allows you to choose to have the location back at the top in the exact same location - right side of headers in a new compose email window - exactly the same as in previous versions. The attachment panel appears when you add an attachment.
I am using it.
If this is what you desire then I suggest you download the addon.
In 'Addons' > Extensions, click on the 'spanner' icon and this gets you access to selecting:
Attachment List location : Top
Then open a new write compose window, click on Attach > file and select file OR drag and drop to see the big 'attachment' where you drop the attachment and it is located at the top right - just like all previous versions.

It does not effect the incoming received email which have attachments. Those attachments are displayed at the bottom as per normal.

Summary: Ability to decide where composition's attachments panel will be displayed (right or bottom) - vertical list of attachments was very ergonomic → Ability to decide where the attachments panel will be displayed (right or bottom)

Comment 19

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3 years ago

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Edited

Attached image MoreLayoutsaddon.jpg — Details

This image should clarify / explain in a visual manner - what the MoreLayouts addon by alta88 does when it comes to the 'Attachments Panel' in a new compose email.

kanlukasz

Reporter

Comment 20

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3 years ago

Big apologies to you @Anje. I have overlooked this setting item
I test and it works as you described! Awesome! Thank you!

Comment 21

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3 years ago

Awesome, thank you Anje for referencing that add-on.
I guess this bug can be closed since that add-on solves this request.

Comment 22

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3 years ago

Closing this as this add-on addresses this feature request: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/thunderbird/addon/morelayouts/

URL: https://addons.thunderbird.net/en-US/...

Status: UNCONFIRMED → RESOLVED

Closed: 3 years ago

Resolution: --- → WONTFIX