174184 - separate homepage location and action on new window

Status: VERIFIED WONTFIX

(Firefox :: Settings UI, enhancement)

Description

[Jacob Kjome]

I'm not sure why this changed, but Pheonix used to allow you to set the homepage
location *and* have new windows open up a blank page.  This means you would be
able to get a blank page by default, but still be able to go to a preferred
homepge when clicking the "home" icon.  Mozilla allows for this and Phoenix used to.

If this new behavior is part of the prefs cleanup, please undo the "fix" because
it is totally inconsistent with previous Mozilla/Netscape releases.

Expected:
Set homepage location to preferred homepage, but allow a setting for new windows
to be loaded as about:blank preferrably without "about:blank" actually showing
up in the url bar and focusing the mouse there for immediate typing.

Actual:
I have to either specify about:blank *or* my preferred homepage.  It make no
sense to have the "home" icon point to "about:blank".


Jake

Comment 1

[Jeff Thieleke]

As an addition to this request, I would also like to see an option to allow the
user to be able to customize the behavior when a new tab is opened.  For
example, I have modified BrowserOpenTab() in browser.js to the following:

    var url;
    if(pref.getBoolPref('browser.tabs.newTabHomePage'))
      url = getHomePage();
    else
      url = 'about:blank';

    gBrowser.selectedTab = gBrowser.addTab(url);


I think there is a similar request filed for Mozilla, so the pref name should be
made compatable, but you get the general idea.

Comment 2

[Asa Dotzler [:asa]]

I think this was explicitely changed. probably will be wontfixed.

Comment 3

[Jacob Kjome]

Can whoever "explicitly" changed this please provide a reason why?  It makes
absolutely no sense to click the "home" button and get "about:blank".  However,
when I start up the browser, I don't want it going anywhere by default.  With
Phoenix, as it stands, the only way I can satisfy the initial page being blank
is to choose "about:blank" as my homepage.  But when I click the "home" button,
I want to go to an actual existing page on the internet.  What is so wrong with
that request?  Mozilla and Netscape have been doing this for years and IE always
had this annoying behavior that the Phoenix developers seem to be particularily
fond of emulating.  Is Phoenix a bow to Microsoft and IE's wisdom?  Christ, I
hope not!

Anyway, for those who want to work around this erroneous behavior, create a
"user.js" file in the same directory where "prefs.js" exists and copy this line
to it:

user_pref("browser.startup.page", 0);

Now shut down Phoenix and start it up again.  If you haven't set your homepage
to something other than "about:blank", go ahead and do that, shut down again,
and start Phoenix back up.

Notice now, how Phoenix starts up with a blank page *and* if you click on the
home button, you go to a *sane* choice for a homepage?  Woohooo!  I suppose now
that I've pointed out that Phoenix supports this pref it will now be disabled or
somthing :-(

Sorry, I really don't mean to deride any Mozilla or Phoenix developers. I've
been with you since before M1 and will continue to stay with you so please don't
take any personal offense.  This issue just annoys me and I really can't figure
out why such a useful pref was "purposefully" removed from the prefs interface???

Jake

Comment 4

[Blake Ross]

We'll probably either do what IE does and just inherit current page and session
history when you open a new window, or provide a preference to control what gets
displayed when you open a new window.

However, what you describe in comment 3 makes absolutely no sense.  People seem
to have forgotten the entire concept of "home," that is, your home place on the
Internet, the place you go to when you open your Internet browser.  Mozilla and
Netscape are ridiculous in this regard.  Allowing you to set a home page and
then letting you specify where your browser goes when you open it goes against
the very notion of a home page.

Marking wontfix to the request to readd the pref that Mozilla has.  We have
plans to do one of the two options I outlined in the first paragraph, but have
other bugs on that.

Comment 5

[Blake Ross]

One thing I forgot to add: if all you want is a button that goes to a page, we
have that functionality.  It's called a "bookmark" and can be placed on your
bookmarks toolbar.

Comment 6

[Jacob Kjome]

Well, whatever,

I have my pref workaround....as long as you don't disabled it.  Having a "home"
button point to "about:blank" makes as little sense as anything I can think of.
 Why even have that as an option in the prefs???  Currently, the options are:

Use Current Page  |   Use Bookmark...  |  Use Blank Page

When you choose "Use Blank Page", this sets a main-stay of the standard
interface of a browser, the "home" button, to "about:blank" (or in the Phoenix
case, an actual blank url box).  The "home" button is all about going to your
most preferred home page.  I definitely *have* a most preferred home page that I
go to more often than any other and deserves the status of the "home" button
(not a mere bookmark as you suggest).  However, that doesn't mean that *every*
new browser I open should go to that page *every* time.  I'll go there when I
choose to go there.  The browser shouldn't make an assumption that I want to go
there...even if I have indicated (by giving the page "home" button status) that
the page is important to me.  If you are to be consistent at all, you'd get rid
of the "Use Blank Page" option, otherwise your argument is pretty much total
bunk.  Of course then people would complain about not being able to open up a
blank browser window and then you'd have to add my other request for support of
the user_pref("browser.startup.page", 0); pref in the preferences UI.  hmmmmm...

Keep in mind that this isn't just behavior I got used to while using Netscape. 
I was annoyed with the behavior when using IE for a long while...and even when I
was using Netscape, I didn't actually realize that I could have exactly what I
wanted until one day I just happened to notice the *feature*.  Yes, that's
right, *feature*.  I thought, what great idea!

Anyway...  To me, everything I have stated makes perfect sense and a lot of
Netscape engineers must agree with me since that is the way the browser has been
for years....and the fact that it was re-implemented in Mozilla after the old
Netscape code was trashed only supports my argument.  That you come along and
say it doesn't make sense holds little water.  However, since you are a
committer to the project and I am not, I'm not going to get my way so I'll quit
beating a dead horse.  At least it made *me* feel better.

Otherwise, keep up the good work.

P.S.  Please don't disable my workaround pref!


Jake

Comment 7

[Blake Ross]

I think you are confusing the concept of 'home'.  It is really intended to be a
start destination, i.e., where you begin each Internet session.  For many
people, this might be a portal-type page.  It isn't intended to just be a page
that you visit a lot, even though it might happen to be that /also/.

You're correct that it doesn't make much sense to have a button go to a blank
page, but I'd assert that a person who wants a blank homepage basically doesn't
want a homepage, and thus doesn't need/doesn't use his home button (and is
probably advanced enough to customize it away).

Comment 8

[Jacob Kjome]

Let's fly with that argument that I am just confused about what the "home"
button means.  Fine.  However, you agree with me about the meaninglessness of
the blank home page concept but then go on to make an assertion that I (and
droves of Netscape and Mozilla developers per my previous comments) don't
actually want a homepage when I've laboriously stated that I do.  And I'm not
sure if you are thowing me a bone and calling me "advanced" by the fact that,
indeed, I have customized it to work the way I want it to.  Probably not.

Additionally, based on your argument, a home page is merely a starting
destination.  If that is the case, then what is that goofy little GUI component
called the "home" button doing in the interface?  Wouldn't I have already gone
to my home page as a starting destination?  What do I need a button for then?  I
already went to where I wanted to go?  If you were at all consistent, you'd get
rid of the "home" button altogether and, therefore, be rid of of the
inconsistency of the blank "home" button and clear up the issue of exactly what
a home page is meant to be (by your definition).  However, I trust you would
raise a few eyebrows of users if you removed the, well entrenched, "home" button.

The functionality I am arguing for covers all cases.  If you want to keep your
concept of a "home" page.  Fine.  If I (and others) have a different concept
than you of a "home" page.  Fine.  Everyone is happy.

You are being inconsistent and limiting peoples choices.  I am being consistent
and not limiting anyones choices.  Gee, how can this be resolved?  Hmmmmmm...

Jake

Comment 9

[Jeff Thieleke]

> I think you are confusing the concept of 'home'.  It is really intended 
> to be a start destination, i.e., where you begin each Internet session.  
> For many people, this might be a portal-type page.  It isn't intended to 
> just be a page that you visit a lot, even though it might happen to be 
> that /also/.

I'll add my two cents...

[e-mail] seems to have the correct argument here, and the presence of a
Home button/command in every single browser is the proof.  

I'm not sure why this bug was resolved by Blake as WONTFIX when he states in
Comment #4 that there should be a "preference to control what gets
displayed when you open a new window.".  That seems to be the whole point of
this bug...

Comment 10

[Alexander Dietrich]

In response to Comment #4:

Care to point out which bug already deals with the "preference
to control what gets displayed when you open a new window" ?
I searched for it, but couldn't find it. Well, I did find this
bug, which is exactly about this preference.


In response to Comment #7:

My "internet session" starts when I open my browser. It ends when
I close my browser. Does a new session start every time I open a
new browser window ? No. Do I want to go to my homepage only at
the beginning of the session ? Yes.

This makes perfect sense to me, yet Firebird can currently not be
configured to act like this, not even in about:config.


In response to Comment #8: What he said.


So I'm all in favour of a checkbox beneath the "Home Page" setting
that says "Load only on startup". This won't make Firebird any more
complex and will not confuse any users.

I am however all against a single person forcing his "concept of
home" on everyone else by WONTFIXing this bug.


hoju: You should set "OS" to "All".