1835499 - When deleting messages or navigate trough the folder tree, the total number of messages remaining in the message list is announced by the screen reader each time

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Thunderbird :: Folder and Message Lists, defect)

Description

[Ali Savas]

while trying to fix bug 1825870, an unwanted side effect occurred. When a message is deleted, the total number of messages remaining in the folder is announced by the screen reader each time. This also happens when navigating through the folders in in the message tree.

For JAWS, this is a type of "help balon".

Steps to reproduce

• Use the arrow keys to select a message you want to delete and press the Delete key to delete the message.
• Then switch to the folder tree and use the arrow keys to navigate through the entries.

Result

JAWS says "X messages" each time a message is deleted or navigated through the folder tree entries. X represents the total number of messages remaining. Sometimes it is announced after the currently selected message has been announced.

Expected

It should just announce the next message and not the total number of messages in the respective list.

Comment 1

[Peter Vágner]

I am not seeing this with orca on linux. I am just wondering is this also used elsewhere where it might be usefull?

Comment 2

[Alessandro Castellani [:aleca]]

This behavior you're reporting is actually caused by bug 1821235, because the focus doesn't move back to the folder pane when a message is deleted, but the message list has a header area with a new role="region" aria-live="polite" in which count of total and selected messages is reported.
This is the same behavior of the status bar (which we're slowly dropping), but it never properly worked because it was outside the current document.

It seems that Orca and NVDA handle the aria-live="polite" differently from JAWS.
Maybe it should be set to off if the user has the total message count visible, or always off and offer a focusable step via toolbar navigation pattern.

You also left a question in the previous bug, which is not really related to this, but you asked:

Also, it would be nice if the number of unread messages were displayed in parentheses. So, instead of "X Unread Messages" just "(X)". This was also the case in the previous versions.

What would be the benefit of this?
Unread messages are displayed visually as a pill, but communicated to screen readers properly rather than what it was before, like "Inbox (3)" which contextually wasn't great.

Comment 3

[Ali Savas]

(In reply to Alessandro Castellani [:aleca] from comment #2)

This behavior you're reporting is actually caused by bug 1821235, because the focus doesn't move back to the folder pane when a message is deleted, but the message list has a header area with a new role="region" aria-live="polite" in which count of total and selected messages is reported.

Thank you for the explanation.

Maybe it should be set to off if the user has the total message count visible, or always off and offer a focusable step via toolbar navigation pattern.

I would prefer to query this information manually, so that we don't get announced every time how many messages are left in the folder. Every screen reader program I know of has a feature that allows you to query the status bar using a keyboard shortcut. But you write that you want to do away with the status bar. But in this case we should have some kind of shortcut where the user can query the total number of messages. But it would also be possible that we just provide the information and the manufacturers have to create a way how to retrieve this information easily manually, like the status bar.

You also left a question in the previous bug, which is not really related to this, but you asked:

Also, it would be nice if the number of unread messages were displayed in parentheses. So, instead of "X Unread Messages" just "(X)". This was also the case in the previous versions.

What would be the benefit of this?
Unread messages are displayed visually as a pill, but communicated to screen readers properly rather than what it was before, like "Inbox (3)" which contextually wasn't great.

The advantage with such a display would be that it would be short and to the point. Every user knows that the number in parentheses is the number of unread messages. Every email program I have seen so far treats the number of unread messages this way. That doesn't mean Thunderbird can't deviate from it. It was just a suggestion.

Comment 4

[Ali Savas]

And another thing: if I select more than one message, JAWS tells me something like "X Selected". We don't need this hint, because the screen reader can announce if something is selected or not. Only the total number of selected messages could also be queried manually by keyboard shortcut, if necessary.

Comment 5

[Ali Savas]

By the way, I can reproduce this behavior not only with JAWS, but also with NVDA.

Comment 6

[Alessandro Castellani [:aleca]]

Attachment: Bug 1835499 - Set aria-live OFF for message list header. r=#thunderbird-reviewers

As pointed out from our testers, these information are not needed
as the screen readers can query the total count and selected count
through built-in functions if users need them.

Comment 7

[Pulsebot]

Pushed by [e-mail]:
https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/65c2f8e417db
Set aria-live OFF for message list header. r=mkmelin

Comment 8

[Wayne Mery (:wsmwk)]

Comment on attachment 9336416 [details]
Bug 1835499 - Set aria-live OFF for message list header. r=#thunderbird-reviewers

[Triage Comment]
Approved for beta

Comment 9

[Ali Savas]

(In reply to Wayne Mery (:wsmwk) from comment #8)

Set aria-live OFF for message list header. r=#thunderbird-reviewers

Even if "aria-live" is set to "Off", this information should be available, e.g. in a status bar or similar, so that it can be read out and announced by the screen reader if necessary. If this information is not available in the status bar, the screen reader cannot get this information at all. The problem with "Aria-Live" in the "On" state was that the screen reader automatically announce this information without the user wanting to know.

Comment 10

[Daniel Darnell [:dandarnell]]

Thunderbird 114.0b6:
https://hg.mozilla.org/releases/comm-beta/rev/ee6f339dabf6