Closed Bug 191299 Opened 22 years ago Closed 22 years ago

Java console inaccessible

Categories

(Firefox :: Menus, defect)

Product:
Firefox
Component:
Menus
Platform:
All
Linux
Type:
defect
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
minor

Tracking

()

Status:
VERIFIED WONTFIX

People

(Reporter: roland.mainz, Assigned: bugzilla)

References

Details

(Whiteboard: asa:ui) 

Phoenix 2003-01-26-trunk Linux and Solaris:
There is no JAVA console mkenu item nor can I access the JAVA console elsewhere
in Phoenix, making it impossible to interact/debug JAVA applets... ;-(
This probably belongs as part of a developer extension. The Phoenix developers
explicitely removed it and they probably won't be adding it back.
Whiteboard: asa:ui
OK. I've spoken to the developers and this won't be added back.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 22 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
Asa Dotzler wrote:
> This probably belongs as part of a developer extension. The Phoenix developers
> explicitely removed it and they probably won't be adding it back.

Well, some JAVA applets need the console for debugging - and not having the
console will render the JAVA support useless in such cases (some people on IRC
suggested to remove JAVA support from Phoenix if it is useless anyway ... =:-).
Asa Dotzler wrote:
> OK. I've spoken to the developers and this won't be added back

BTW: Why do we have the JavaScript console enabled ?

Either both JAVA and JavaScript consoles should be enabled or both disabled in
non-debug builds - but having one available and the other disabled does not
sound right (BTW: "Footprint" cannot be an issue since the JAVA console is
mainly implemented as part of the JRE plugin and the glue in Mozilla/Phoenix is
just a tiny piece of code).
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: WONTFIX → ---
What gives you the authority to *reopen your own bug*, when it's already been
turned down by asa@mozilla.org ?!

I agree to some extent that the JS console is also a developer tool, but this
bug is about getting the Java console back, and it has already been WONTFIX'ed.

As Asa said, this belongs to a developer extension. Please take further
discussions to the extensions forum.
Status: REOPENED → RESOLVED
Closed: 22 years ago → 22 years ago
Resolution: --- → WONTFIX
David Tenser wrote:
> What gives you the authority to *reopen your own bug*, when it's already been
> turned down by asa@mozilla.org ?!

Erm... because I thought that this is very important. Either we enable the JAVA
console or disable both consoles.

[snip]
> As Asa said, this belongs to a developer extension. Please take further
> discussions to the extensions forum.

Why do we have BugZilla then ? IMHO BugZilla's main purpose is for discussing a
bug/RFE/etc., it's possible solutions and finally developing a patch and get it
tested, reviewed, checked-in and verified.
This includes that _anyone_ can REOPEN the bug for RECONSIDERATION if the bug
needs a fix or something else - even this bug may be morphed to "move JS console
to developer extensions" on demand.
You don't get it. The Phoenix developers (or Asa Dotzler) are not responsible
for creating extensions. The community is. If you want an extension, either
write it yourself or discuss it with other extension makers in the MozillaZine
forums. Don't file bugs for extensions!

Also, if a Mozilla Driver has resolved a bug, you DON'T have the authority to
open it again. (Well, technically you do, but you risk loosing your Bugzilla
account.)
David Tenser wrote:
> You don't get it. The Phoenix developers (or Asa Dotzler) are not responsible
> for creating extensions. The community is. If you want an extension, either
> write it yourself or discuss it with other extension makers in the MozillaZine
> forums. Don't file bugs for extensions!

I already got that. I am wondering why you are complaing why I reopened the bug
to ask Asa to reconsider his decision. If he marks the bug a 2nd time as
"WONTFIX" then everything is clear. The REOPEN was bound to the question "please
reevaluate" the bug. Point.

> Also, if a Mozilla Driver has resolved a bug, you DON'T have the authority to
> open it again. (Well, technically you do, but you risk loosing your Bugzilla
> account.)

That would be new since many developers are doing that (e.g. reopen a bug to ask
for reevaluation) - on demand - since (at least) 1999 (I don't know the rules
before that time, I am working on mozilla only since 1999) :)
If developers are not allowed to reopen their bugs they will not appear on
drivers radar (again) and that can be very bad since they may think the issue is
no issue anymore and that everything is ready to release the product.
Fair enough, but Asa doesn't get these mails, so if you want him to reconsider,
you'll have to cc him.
Severity: blocker → minor
There are no plans to add this back. The developers removed it intentionally. If
it's desired by a lot of users then someone should make an extension.
verified.
Status: RESOLVED → VERIFIED
Taking QA Contact as designated owner of Firebird-Menus. Sorry for bugspam.
QA Contact: asa → bugzilla
*** Bug 217447 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
OK, I guess when I filed my duplicate on this, I didn't think to check for
RESOLVED bugs when reporting this again, because I didn't expect that this would
have been intentionally removed.

So, I expect that I'll lose this argument (if anyone is actually listening), but
I will put my 2c in here anyway.

I disagree with the choice to remove the Java Console menu option.  I do
understand that web developers can build and install some (not yet implemented)
extension to re-enable the Java Console menu option, but I still believe that
this should be enabled _FOR END USERS_ as well.

The reason is simply that if an end user is looking for technical support for a
problem within a Java Applet, the Java Console is an invaluable tool for
technical support people to use in diagnosing the problem.  Not just for
developers when developing an Applet, but for end-users and technical support
personnel.

Removing this means that if Firebird becomes popular, providing support for
Firebird users encountering problems with Java Applets will then require them to
(a) use another browser that does provide Java Console access, or (b) download
and install an (as-yet unwritten) extension that provides access to the Java
Console.

I suppose that under Windows, users have access to this via the JRE's tray icon
(if they're using the Sun JRE), and under MacOS X they have access to this
(only) via Apple's screwy way of enabling the Java Console, so maybe this only
affects everyone else..

I also agree with Roland in Comment #4; it makes no sense to have the JavaScript
console, but not the Java Console in the menu tree.  I suppose I would have
understood that they were removed and not filed the bug in the first place if
neither had been present.


1. The decision has been made. The Java Console is not coming back.
2. End users will find it very hard to use the Java Console properly. Mostly 
   because they don't care. It's the same with the Javascript console. I often 
   hear people asking, for what this javascript console is useful.
3. The javascript console will be removed in the drive towards 1.0, so the 
   inconsistency you're complaining about will be fixed this way.
4. End of discussion.
*** Bug 227900 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Hello.

I'm very interested in getting a Java console available from Firebird (on Linux;
on Windows you can just double-click the Java plug-in icon in the tray).
I understand this won't be in the main Firebird code, and you talk about the
"devlepers extension" -- is this some kind of work-in-progress? where can I find
it and perhaps contribute?

Alon.
(for the record, see bug 230150)
QA Contact: bugzilla → menus
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