Open Bug 273223 Opened 18 years ago Updated 10 years ago

one of the items Mark->As Junk/As Not Junk should be disabled

Categories

(SeaMonkey :: MailNews: Message Display, defect)

defect
Not set
minor

Tracking

(Not tracked)

People

(Reporter: mcsmurf, Unassigned)

References

Details

(Keywords: ux-control, Whiteboard: [2012 Fall Equinox])

To reproduce:
1. Rightclick on a message to get the context menu
2. Go to sub-menu "Mark"

Observe As Junk and Not As Junk are both activated. One of those two items
should be deactivated, because either a message is Junk or Not-Junk, but not
both (i know there is a Unknown state, but this state has been deactivated
everywhere in UI, so it also doesn't make sense here to leave it like this; also
both items are active, regardless if a message is Junk/Not-Junk/Unknown).
Assignee: sspitzer → mail
*** Bug 306573 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***
Actually, I use exactly this feature to train the junk recognition! Periodically I reset the training data of the adaptive filter. Then I mark junk messages already recognized as junk again, and others I know are not spam as not junk. As far as I can tell, this trains the adaptive filter. Fixing the proposed bug would eliminate this possibility.

OTOH, a dedicated wizard for training the adaptive filter would of course be preferable to the hack outlined above.
You still have the Junk/Not Junk button in the toolbar for that.
No, of course not! Please read my comment carefully. The toolbar button does work as a toggle (just like you suggested the menu and context menu _should_ work). As I outlined, to *have* the feature to mark a message that is junk as junk, and one that is not junk as not junk (as is _currently_implemented_), is beneficial for retraining the adaptive junk filter.
You can click the Junk button twice then...anyway clearing your Junk data is stupid, use http://bayesjunktool.mozdev.org/ if you want to clean up your Junk data.
Repeated toggling does not have the same effect as the method I outlined above in my experience. Also, whether clearing junk data is useful (to use a polite phrase) or not is hardly on topic for this thread. I vote for marking this bug INVALID, as the bug is very minor. The topic could however be reopened as part of a more general rethink of junk filter handling, which adds more transparency to the junk mail handling in general.
The existence of both items is not a bug, since "junk" is tri-state property (like Frank already mentioned ni comment #0). That both items are active once a message reaches a non-undecided junk state, however, _is_ a bug; and that's the scope of this bug...
If a message already is [not] junk, the "mark as [not] junk" should be disabled (-> marked as grey in the standard themes).
(In reply to comment #7)
> The existence of both items is not a bug, since "junk" is tri-state property
> (like Frank already mentioned ni comment #0). That both items are active once a
> message reaches a non-undecided junk state, however, _is_ a bug; and that's the
> scope of this bug...
> If a message already is [not] junk, the "mark as [not] junk" should be disabled
> (-> marked as grey in the standard themes).
> 

That would be true if all 'mark as junk' did was flip a boolean for the message. But 'mark as junk' has side-effects, and it is, in some situations, desirable to be able to invoke them without a) clicking twice, and b) invoking the side-effects of 'mark as not junk'.

Side effects of 'mark as junk' can include (depending on the user's settings) training the filter with the message, moving the message to another folder, or even deleting the message. Again, depending on the user's settings, the filter merking messages as junk can have some, more, or none of these side-effects. In any configuration where manually marking and automatically marking have different side-effects, there is a purpose to marking a flagged message as junk.

Finally, and tangencially, select two messages at the same time, one junk, one not, and right-click. You'll need both options now.
I also disagree about this bug.  (Is there a way to apply a negative vote?)

I like the ability to have both marking options always enabled, in order to activate them and get the side effects.

As others have said, this can be essential for training the junk mail filter.

Until the junk mail system is overhauled to fix a lot of other UI problems, we need to keep both marking options always enabled for now, even though it's somewhat confusing for a new user.

If it were up to me, we would have 3 choices for marking:

* Mark as Junk
* Mark as Not Junk
* Remove Markings

The third choice would remove all markings from the message, causing it to return to the initial state of "not classified yet", which every message begins as, until the filters get ran.

It's a related, unfortunate, bug that the UI in Thunderbird is not capable of showing the user the difference between "not junk" and "not classified yet"!  This makes a *huge* difference in the way Thunderbird will treat emails, and yet, the user has no way of seeing this in the UI.  This has been the source of much confusion.
Assignee: mail → nobody
QA Contact: message-display
Comment #8 and comment #9 seem to imply that marking as junk a message which is already known to be junk, or marking as nonjunk a message which is already known to be nonjunk, should have side effects. I fail to see which ones, and I tend to agree with Mnyromyr's comment #7 which seems to say that once a message's junk classification is no more "undecided", setting it to what it already is would be a no-operation.

OTOH comment #9 seems to have a point when it wants an additional menuitem, something like "Set Junk Status to Undecided" (exact wording may be discussed). Of course, if comment #7 is correct, that new menuitem would be greyed-out for messages whose junk status is already (or, rather, still) undecided.

Currently the "Junk status" column in the threads pane of the 3-pane window has only two icons: a rubbish bin ("Known to be junk") and a little dot ("Not known to be junk", i.e. either Nonjunk or Undecided). Wouldn't a third icon (maybe a green √ sign) be in order to mean "this is known not to be junk"?
Keywords: ux-control
OS: Windows 2000 → All
Hardware: x86 → All
Whiteboard: [2012 Fall Equinox]
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