312960 - New mail notification should not display if Thunderbird is focused

Status: RESOLVED WONTFIX

(Thunderbird :: Mail Window Front End, enhancement)

Description

[Chris Cook]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 Firefox/1.0.6
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.10) Gecko/20050716 Firefox/1.0.6

It seems that the purpose of the new mail notification popup should be to notify
the user of new messages *if* they are using another program and that it is
redundant to display the popup if they are already using Thunderbird and
watching the mail roll in.

The notification popup should only be displayed if Thunderbird is not focused
because the new mail message is also displayed in the status bar.

Reproducible: Always

Steps to Reproduce:
1. Send a test message to your email address.
2. Click the "Get mail" button.


Actual Results:  
A new mail notification popup was displayed as well as a message in the mail
program.

Expected Results:  
No popup should have been displayed.

Comment 1

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

New messages can arrive at folders that aren't viewed or even visible in the 
tree (due to scrolling or collapsed accounts), and therefore won't be seen 
"rolling in" even if TB is the only open window on the screen.

Recommend WontFix.

Comment 2

[Chris Cook]

(In reply to comment #1)

This ignores the fact that a new mail message is also displayed in the status
bar so even if the new mail appears in a folder which is not currently visible
the user will still see a notification.

Last time I used Outlook (or any other mail program) it did not need a popup to
notify of new mail, but allowed the user to enable one if desired. Should this
be a configurable option? I didn't immediately consider this (as adding
configuration options is always to be avoided) but perhaps it's something to
consider.

Comment 3

[Chris Cook]

After giving it a bit more thought, another configuration option doesn't really
seem appropriate.

[ ] Enable new mail notification when Thunderbird is not the active application

Not terrific.

[ ] Enable new mail notification popup
   [ ] only when Thunderbird is not the active application

Even worse.

I recommend just doing the intelligent thing instead of adding another option.
It seems entirely reasonable to expect that users will notice new mail via the
status bar message but not be completely distracted by it if they are doing
something else in Thunderbird. I find those corner screen popups very disruptive
(they sometimes cover part of the screen which I need to use forcing me to wait
for them to disappear) so would like to minimize their use where possible.

Comment 4

[Inventus]

Hi,

Just to add my 2 cents to this issue:

First of all: I too would like to be able to change the behaviour of the "new mail" tray-icon. Aside from the issue at hand, I would also like to have the icon replace the main/normal TB tray-icon, instead of both being shown (as relevant when TB is minimized while new mail arrives).

Also, I experience a minor problem with new messages "rolling in". I like to sort my folders so new messages arrive at the bottom of the list (rather than at the top as per default), however TB doesn't seem able to handle this correctly when new messages arrive (they don't "roll in", but rather the list remains as it were, while the new messages are placed below the visible section, making it necessary for me to manually scroll the list down, before I can see these new arrivals).

Finally, I fail to understand why "adding configuration options is always to be avoided"?

As I see things, an application such as a mail-client can only benefit from having lots of configuration options, as long as these are arranged in a reasonable and practical manner (ie. using tabs and sub-tabs etc. just as they currently are). It goes without saying that some reason and restraint should be applied before adding just any possible configuration option, but this is a far cry from "always avoiding" it.

People are different, and this is a fact that (IMHO) should be celebrated and thus supported by all (non-trivial) software applications. As such I find it rather irritating that TB currently have so FEW configuration options, preventing me from costumising the application to my liking, at least not without having to use the very cumbersome and unwieldy "advanced configuration tree" (which also have a lot of unnecesary entries, many of which are already present in the configuration dialog, while still lacking a lot of configuration options I would like to have).

If the implementors feel that some configuration options aren't suitable for the "average user", there are many ways to do this in a much more "user friendly" manner. One obvious way would be to have a checkbox such as "Show advanced configurations" which, as opposed to the current "Advanced configuration" button, would enable a number of further tabs and sub-tabs in the configuration dialog, with such "less often used" options.

I realise this is a matter of taste, but the current solution just doesn't cut it (again, IMHO).

Thanks for considering my suggestions and comments, and keep up the good work!

Comment 5

[Mike Cowperthwaite]

(In reply to comment #4)
> I would also like to have the
> icon replace the main/normal TB tray-icon, instead of both being shown (as
> relevant when TB is minimized while new mail arrives).

Bug 208923.  There are several related RFEs as well.

> Also, I experience a minor problem with new messages "rolling in". I like to
> sort my folders so new messages arrive at the bottom of the list (rather than
> at the top as per default), however TB doesn't seem able to handle this
> correctly when new messages arrive (they don't "roll in", but rather the list
> remains as it were, while the new messages are placed below the visible
> section, making it necessary for me to manually scroll the list down, before I
> can see these new arrivals).

Bug 218935.

> Finally, I fail to understand why "adding configuration options is always to
> be avoided"?

Because one of Thunderbird's is minimum configurability, to make it attractive to perhaps less-than-average users.  In addition, that makes the software easier to maintain (especially important in an open-source project).
Additional configuration for the most part is preferred to be handled by extensions.

In this particular instance, I agree with Chris Cook: whether notification behaves as it does or as he requests, making this configurable seems unnecessary.  I prefer the current behavior only because it's simpler, one less decision point to be tested; but I have alerts turned off now anyway because of the new format listing every new message, along with preview text -- a much greater addition of complexity than this RFE.

Comment 6

[Inventus]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your quick response to my comments. With fear of wandering a bit off the main topic of the original bug-report, here are my views on these matters:

You argue "Because one of Thunderbird's [goals?] is minimum configurability"

... Then please explain to me the presence of those approx. 1 million "advanced options"?!? The fact is that TB, regardless of what might have been the original "goal" (or whatever your were refering to), is now a rather advanced e-mail client, comparable in complexity to applications such as word-processors and web-browsers etc. This is not to say that your comments aren't reasonable, but merely to illustrate the futility of clinging to this idea of "minimalism".

People are obviously busy adding further functionality to TB, which already include built-in spell-checking, HTML-viewing and countless other "advanced features". As such, "minimal configurability" doesn't seem atainable anymore, indeed you can't seriously argue that the current configuration dialog in TB is anywhere near "minimal".

I also feel that I already addressed the issue with "less-than-average users". I find this wish (ie. being attractive to such users) a poor argument for preventing the remaining, perhaps "more-than-average", users from attaining a decent and personalised experience (notably without having to use the obscure "tree" of advanced configuration options, except possibly in VERY special cases).

Finally, I feel that the idea of using extensions as a means of providing configuration options for features built into TB itself a rather poor choice. I imagine the original idea behind extensions were to allow people to provide additional functionality, which can then be configured using the extensions own configuration dialog, without cluttering the main TB configuration dialog. As such, I find it a rather strange solution, having to install an extension merely to access configuration options for built-in features, while such an extension wouldn't actually provide any "extended" functionality at all?!? IMHO this is a much greater source of errors, than providing a built-in (possibly optional) set of advanced configuration tabs/dialogs/whatever, since such an extension would then be written by people who would likely have poor knowledge of the features for which they are trying to provide configuration options!

Anyway, I fear this is all a matter of personal taste, so perhaps we should refrain from discussing it in this bug-report? Also I get the destinct impression that your opinion is held by most of the TB developers, making it quite unlikely that my point of view will ever be taken seriously, so...

Comment 7

[Frédéric Buclin]

(In reply to comment #1)
> Recommend WontFix.

I agree with Mike. My vote to close this bug as WONTFIX for the same reasons he gives.

Comment 8

[Joshua Cranmer [:jcranmer]]

Resolving WONTFIX per comment #1, comment #7, and general consensus on IRC. Debate on news:mozilla.dev.apps.thunderbird if you disagree.