31464 - "Help | About Netscape" cannot be translated into Japanese correctly

Status: VERIFIED FIXED

(Core :: Internationalization, defect, P3)

Description

[Katsuhiko Momoi]

** Observed with 3/10/2000 Win32 build **

The "Help | About Netscape" menu is showing incorrectly 
in our Japanese localized build because it seems that
the order of the 2 elements "About" and "Netscape" are
fixed. The problem seems to be in the following file:

globalOverlay.js

where this is defined.

In general, one cannot assume that an order like "Preposition + Noun"
is universal. In Japanese there is NO preposition, and so the
order is: "Noun + Postposition". The reverse order is NOT Japanese
and is not acceptable.

I don't think there is an easy way to correctly localize this important
Brand identity as the matter stands right now. 
I think this needs to be fixed for Beta 1. msanz, opinion?

Comment 1

[Katsuhiko Momoi]

As this is one of the important menu items, it is at minimum jabeta1.  If an easy workaround cannot
be found, then this should be escalated to beta1.

Comment 2

[tao]

This is more of UI issue, isn't it? For the open source build (mozilla), it 
shall be named as "Help | About Mozilla". Both brand names should not be
localized; i.e., translate the "About" part and leave the brand names alone. 

Comment 3

[Katsuhiko Momoi]

No, this seems to be a localizability issue.
I agree that "BrandName" can be different and I believe that is why a recent
change was checked in GlobaOverlay.js.

We are translating  only the word  "About" into Japanese. The problem is that 
in Japanese, the word order cannot be: "About + Netscape/Mozilla". It must be instead
the equivalent of "Netscape/Mozilla + about". What I am saying is that the word order here
is fixed right now and if we translate "About", all we get is "About Netscape" -- and this
is not a correct Japanese word order. Althoug this is NOT the CORRECT solution, if we change

	var aboutStrName = aboutName + " " + BrandName;

to 

	var aboutStrName = BrandName + " " +aboutName ;

in Overlay.js file, we get the right order in Japanese.

Someone needs to make a change so that L10n can change the order of "BrandName" and "aboutName"
depending on what language you are localizing into.

I'm seeing also other problems of the same nature like this:

From 1pm until  10pm

This is OK for some languages but for Japanese and others, the order must be flexible
so that we can have the following order. 

1pm from 10pm until

I think we have another localization bug filed recently because someone has fixed the order
of  "From ... to ..."  reflecting only the 1st kind of word order. 

Comment 4

[Katsuhiko Momoi]

Note that in chrome: global: locale:en-US directory, BrandName is defined in "brand.properties" 
file while "About" = aboutCommCmd.label  is defined in "globalOverlay.dtd" file.

Comment 5

[matt]

So what is the best solution for this problem.
We should be using brand.properties but it does
not seem possible to us JS if we are under this naming restriction.
Should we just pull it out and use overlays?

Comment 6

[tao]

You're right. I didn't read the original description of this bug. The problem 
with this bug is "About Netscape" being broken into two strings. I'll look
into this problem.

Comment 7

[matt]

We can just put about Netscape into 
the brands.properties file or pu the
about into a overlay file.
The first one seems like and easier solution.

Comment 8

[Katsuhiko Momoi]

If you put "About Netsape", I think that string will show up in 
other places because BrandName is used in Windows title also.
So, for exmpale, a Mail message title would dislay soemthing 
like

Mail - Re: Mozilla issues - Inbox for joe@netscape,net - About Netscape

I don't think this will be desirable. 

Comment 9

[tao]

My original thought was not to mangle with "About Netscape" (or Mozilla). In 
other word, leave it as a single string. We will have "About Netscape" and
"Netscape" as two different strings for the commercial build. There will be 
"About Mozilla" and "Mozilla" for the open source build.

But, let me work with Kat (momoi) on this a bit.


Thanks

Comment 10

[matt]

that is what i meant.
add another string in the brands

Comment 11

[tao]

OK, let sum it up here:

	* let the menuitem, "About Netscape" (or "About Mozilla"), be 
	  a single string.
	* let the brandname "Netscape" (or "Mozilla") be a separate string
	  resource.

This way, localizers will be able to translate "About Netscape" into meaningful
term in thier native languages.

thnx

Comment 12

[matt]

Tao,
that is exactly what i was suggesting to do in the first place.
create a new sting in the brand.properites that
is aboutstring=About Netscape

Then anyone can do what they want with this.

Comment 13

[don]

So do we need to get this changed for beta 1 or what?  Does anybody want to make
this a beta 1 candidate?  If so, do it quickly 'cause the train is leaving the
station ...

Comment 14

[msanz]

It has to be fixed for beta 1, becaues "About" alone in JA doesn't make sense

Comment 15

[leger]

Putting on the PDT- radar for beta1.

Comment 16

[tao]

Here is a "patch" for the commercial build:

  --- begin --
   global/locale/en-US/brand.properties: line 3

   +  aboutStrName=About Netscape

   global/content/default/globalOverlay.js: line 310

   !  	//var aboutStrName = aboutName + " " + BrandName;
   +	var aboutStrName = BrandBundle.GetStringFromName("aboutStrName");

  --- end ----


This change will affect the "Help|About Netscape" menuitem in Browser,
Messenger, and Mail Composer.

Hi, Matt:


Would you get this in?


Thanks.

Comment 17

[matt]

Can't get it in if it's not PDT+

Comment 18

[bobj]

Renominating for Beta1. Must be able to localize "About Netscape" menu entry.

The fix: (1) add one new property to brand.properties file and,
(2) change one JS line in globalOverlay.js to use the new property for the
menu entry (instead of assembling it from 2 other strings).  See diffs above.

Comment 19

[Phil Peterson]

[PDT+] w/b minus on 3/17

Comment 20

[tao]

Hi, Matt:

Would you please check this in to both Mozilla and commercial trees today?


Thanks.

Comment 21

[matt]

fixed

Comment 22

[tao]

Kudos to Matt.


Thanks.

Comment 23

[Teruko Kobayashi]

I verified this in 2000032417a JA build.

Comment 24

[Kevin Brosnan]

*** Bug 314646 has been marked as a duplicate of this bug. ***