338256 - Belgische standaard zoekplugins en bladwijzers

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: nl / Dutch, defect)

Description

[Frederik Vanderstraeten]

User-Agent:       Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; nl; rv:1.8.0.3) Gecko/20060426 Firefox/1.5.0.3
Build Identifier: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; nl; rv:1.8.0.3) Gecko/20060426 Firefox/1.5.0.3

Alhoewel naar mijn mening een Belgische vertaling niet nodig is, aangezien Vlaams en Nederlands officieel dezelfde taal zijn, en in andere media (boeken, films, etc) veelal ook maar ייn vertaling wordt gemaakt, vind ik toch dat de standaard bladwijzers en zoekplugins te Nederlands zijn.
Aangezien in bug 338154 een nl-BE localizatie om deze reden is afgekeurd, vind ik dat de nl localizatie dan meer Belgisch-gericht moet worden.
De twee wijzigingen waar ik aan dacht zijn:
- Met de Google zoekbalk zoeken op google.com i.p.v. google.nl, google.com zal automatisch naar .nl of .be doorverbinden
- Naast de standaard bladwijzer met NOS nieuws, ook een bladwijzer met VRT nieuws toevoegen.
Feed: http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/systeem/rss/nnII_nieuws_hoofdpunten/index.xml

Reproducible: Always

Comment 1

[Tim Maks van den Broek [:mad_maks]]

in englisch so pike can follow this discussion.

Changing google.nl to google.com is a good id but there is one problem. As far as i now google use your ip adres for the page, so if you are in the UK (like your email adres) you will get the englisch google page.

for adding a second newsfeed i have to get persmission of the mozilla organisation (pike?).

greetings

Comment 2

[Frederik Vanderstraeten]

(In reply to comment #1)

If your IP is in the UK, Google will redirect you to the google.co.uk page, which is appropriate (you would want search services localized to the UK). The language however seems to be based on the Accept-Language header. As this is set to nl in the Dutch translation (it is, right?), you will get google.co.uk in Dutch.
(I just tried setting it to African and I indeed get google.co.uk in African.)

(And btw, I have an .co.uk e-mail address because there is no yahoo.be)

And a brief English translation of my first post:

As nl-NL and nl-BE are officially the same language (same dictionary, etc), and a lot of texts (books, films, etc) are translated once for both countries, another translation isn't necessary in my opinion.
The standard bookmarks and search plugins are Netherlands-oriented, and I do think they should be less country-specific, as 25%-30% of the Dutch localization users are Belgians, and a seperate localization for this has not been accepted in bug 338154.
The two changes would be:
- Google search bar searching google.com (redirecting to .be or .nl) instead of directly to google.nl
- Add an extra news feed with Belgian (VRT) news next to the one with Dutch (NOS) news.
A feed with the VRT news:
http://www.vrtnieuws.net/nieuwsnet_master/versie2/systeem/rss/nnII_nieuws_hoofdpunten/index.xml

Comment 3

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

The google change is actually planned, see bug 337719.

I happily verified the google language switching :-).

WRT to the bookmarks change, is there a source for the stats for the usage of
the dutch localization in Belgium?

Comment 4

[Tim Maks van den Broek [:mad_maks]]

Pike, do you do a overall change regarding the google link for all the locales or do i need to change the nl one (mozilla_1.8.0_branch??)

Comment 5

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

I don't intend to fix anything of this for 1.5.0.x, really.

What happens to searchplugins towards 2.0 is something we need to sit together 
this week (in Amsterdam ;-) )

Comment 6

[Tim Maks van den Broek [:mad_maks]]

(In reply to comment #5)
> I don't intend to fix anything of this for 1.5.0.x, really.
> What happens to searchplugins towards 2.0 is something we need to sit together 
> this week (in Amsterdam ;-) )

lets drink a beer together this weekend.

Comment 7

[Frederik Vanderstraeten]

(In reply to comment #3)
> WRT to the bookmarks change, is there a source for the stats for the usage of
> the dutch localization in Belgium?

No there isn't, it was just an assumption based on Flanders (Dutch-speaking part of Belgium) having around 6.5 million inhabitants, and the Netherlands around 16.5 million.
Both countries also seem to have similar internet usage patterns.

Comment 8

[Tim Maks van den Broek [:mad_maks]]

in the mozilla_1_8_branch (fx 2) google.nl is changed into google.com

Comment 9

[u81239]

Yes, I think having a Belgian feed would be a good idea, if we also intend to cover Belgian users.

Of course, Frederik, if you really want to make a dedicated effort at an nl-BE translation, you may get the help of Hendrik and making that a reality, he expressed a wish for that earlier.

Officially, nl-NL and nl-BE are the same language, however there are a number of differences in common expressions, formality and sentence ordering, so it would make sense to have a separate translation for nl-BE, just like it makes sense to have different translations for en-US and en-GB. We do actively keep ‘Belgianisms’ that would sound uncomfortable to Dutch users out of the translation.

But of course the question remains whether those differences would make it worth the effort, or whether a well-crafted nl-NL will do just fine for Belgian users. (I think this is the case.)


~Grauw

Comment 10

[Frederik Vanderstraeten]

(In reply to comment #9)

en-US and en-GB are different languages, they have different spelling, some different words, etc.

IMHO an nl-BE translation wouldn't be necessary as a proper Dutch translation shouldn't have typical Belgian Dutch or Dutch Dutch expressions anyway. A lot of films and books also have only one translation for both and when properly translated, you don't even notice. I think you did really well at making the Dutch translation as all language looks ok to me.

Comment 11

[u81239]

Good to hear then! :).

Comment 12

[Tim Maks van den Broek [:mad_maks]]

can we close this bug/ featurerequest?

Comment 13

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Yeah, lets.