348082 - es-ES Search Feature Tracking for Firefox 2

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: es-ES / Spanish, defect)

Description

[chris hofmann]

tracking bug to make sure we get things on the list below working correctly for
each locale:

Deafult Search partner list/order.
primary/secondary search selection behavior
Search codes.
Search Suggests enable/disable for locales where available or not

Comment 1

[chris hofmann]

Attachment: first draft at a es-es search test page

Comment 2

[chris hofmann]

Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-ES; rv:1.8.1b2) Gecko/20060828 BonEcho/2.0b2 

doesn't appear to have offical branding set

Comment 3

[chris hofmann]

Attachment: update to fix yahoo search query path typo

Comment 4

[chris hofmann]

rest of google and yahoo search suggests look ok.

Google search looks ok.

Yahoo search is pointed at
http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=pan+de+muerto&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2
not at
http://es.search.yahoo.com/?p=pan+de+muerto&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2

Comment 5

[chris hofmann]

ebay is returning a query to
http://search.ebay.com/test_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300

not 
http://search.ebay.es/test_W0QQfrppZ50QQfsopZ1QQmaxrecordsreturnedZ300

Comment 6

[chris hofmann]

Does anyone have contact, review or approval info on Diccionario RAE?

Comment 7

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

I'm afraid Andrés hasn't got Firefox L10n on the top of his task list, so I'm taking over...

Comment 8

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #2)
> Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; es-ES; rv:1.8.1b2) Gecko/20060828
> BonEcho/2.0b2 
> 
> doesn't appear to have offical branding set
> 


I don't know the reasons, I've asked in m.d.l10n:

http://groups.google.es/groups?selm=jomes3-me8.ln1%40Father.family&hl=es

(I've just posted it, it is not yet available on Google Groups)

Comment 9

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #4)
> 
> Yahoo search is pointed at
> http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=pan+de+muerto&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2
> not at
> http://es.search.yahoo.com/?p=pan+de+muerto&ei=UTF-8&fr=moz2
> 

I don't know why, but the shipped yahoo.xml file is not the one available in the es-ES L10n repository:

http://lxr.mozilla.org/l10n-mozilla1.8/source/es-ES/browser/searchplugins/yahoo.xml

Comment 10

[:Gavin Sharp [email: [e-mail]]]

I think the en-US plugins have precedence if they have the same name as a plugin in your localization. If you want to use your own yahoo plugin, you probably have to rename it to yahoo-es.xml and change list.txt accordingly.

Comment 11

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #6)
> Does anyone have contact, review or approval info on Diccionario RAE?
> 

No, although the Sherlock version was shipped with Firefox 1.5. I've just written to RAE technical staff to request permission.

Comment 12

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

As Gavin said. yahoo.xml is the en-US one, create a yahoo-es.xml one instead.

Comment 13

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

    Is it too late to request an additional searchplugin? We'd like to add Wikipedia searches in spanish (Firefox 1.5 already has it). If no more than five searchplugins are allowed, we would be willing to remove amazon.com that is not so popular here in Spain.

    I never know if it is supposed to be better first ask and then file the bug depending on the answer, or if I should simply file the bug and let you approve it or wontfix it. :-?

Comment 14

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #12)
> As Gavin said. yahoo.xml is the en-US one, create a yahoo-es.xml one instead.
> 

Done, thanks.

Comment 15

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

Do the "wikipedia addition request" status whiteboard change means that we can use this bug to manage wikipedia addition? Because I already have a working wikipedia-es.xml, and I could attach it here for review.

Thank you for your attention and patience, all of you must be going crazy these days... :-)

Comment 16

[chris hofmann]

seems like a good addition to me, but Mic should make the call.  I think we are still working on  getting an offical ok from wikipedia.

Comment 17

[chris hofmann]

Attachment: fix a bunch of typos

Comment 18

[Mic Berman]

on wikipedia for spain - i am still working on official ok from them direct - in the interim though we are OK to ship with this addition and bd in general is ok with up to 6 search plug ins

Comment 19

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

Attachment: Spanish wikipedia MozSearch plugin

This is the Wikipedia es-ES searchplugin. I've tested it and it works OK, but I'd rather wait for you to give the official/unofficial OK to commit it to L10n CVS.

Comment 20

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Comment on attachment 236017 [details]
fix a bunch of typos

Yahoo should not use suggest.
Ricardo, Mic, would amazon.co.uk make more sense for es-ES than the US one?

Comment 21

[Mic Berman]

Wikipedia is aware of our L10N ship so you have an official OK for the purposes of this bug.
Regarding comment #20; Ricardo, what are your thoughts give your knowledge of the market. Both of the options are in English so I guess the only advantage is co.uk is european. 

Comment 22

[Mic Berman]

re comment #11
ricardo, have you heard anything further on this?
thanks
mic

Comment 23

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #20)
> (From update of attachment 236017 [details] [edit])
> Yahoo should not use suggest.


I've tested and it seems to work. It shows both english and spanish words as suggestions (which, BTW, I don't see as a problem), but as you are typing the spanish word the suggestions get closer to the language and more helpful, IMHO.

Should I remove it even if it works?


> Ricardo, Mic, would amazon.co.uk make more sense for es-ES than the US one?


Not really. If we really want a well-known spanish bookshop store with online purchases, we could think about "La Casa del Libro" (roughly "House of Books"), http://www.casadellibro.com/ . It's owned by one of the biggest spanish editors (Espasa Calpe) and it only sells books.

A more general option could be FNAC (http://www.fnac.es/) the french store selling books, CDs, DVDs, computers and so. It's expanding in Spain and often has Internet-only special offers.

Regarding a spanish Internet-only shop, I'm not aware of any.

Comment 24

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #22)
> re comment #11
> ricardo, have you heard anything further on this?
> thanks
> mic


I got a reply simply acknowledging the receipt of the message (not an automatic receipt), and stating that due to organizative issues, nobody in position of granting the approval could answer me at the moment (in Spain August is the most usual month for vacation, and many companies and government dependencies activity almost freeze). I haven't get further notice from them.

How many days have we left before we need either a reply or removing the searchplugin?

Comment 25

[Mic Berman]

rae was in 1.5 version right, so we should be ok to ship it in this version without any dependencies on when we hear from them. eventually i would like to get in touch with someone there.
regarding comment #23, i'm not clear on if you are recommending those instead of amazon, if so, i can check out fnac.es - but, ricardo can you find out if la casa del libro would be interested in receiving our traffic?
thanks
mic

Comment 26

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #25)
> rae was in 1.5 version right, so we should be ok to ship it in this version
> without any dependencies on when we hear from them. eventually i would like to
> get in touch with someone there.


I've just received further notice of RAE (16:55 UTC, just seven minutes before your comment). In a quick translation, Mr. Guillermo Rojo acknowledges my request, including awareness of the fact that Firefox 1.5 was shipped with the searchplugin, and reports that next Government Body meeting will include our request in the agenda. There is no fixed date for the meeting, but it could happen next week.


> regarding comment #23, i'm not clear on if you are recommending those instead
> of amazon, if so, i can check out fnac.es - but, ricardo can you find out if
> la casa del libro would be interested in receiving our traffic?


I think they are good replacements to Amazon.com for spanish people, yes. La Casa del Libro has a wider range of book titles than FNAC, and reversely FNAC includes a huge DVD and CD catalog.

I'll contact La Casa del Libro and report back.

Comment 27

[Mic Berman]

do you think la casa libre is better than fnac.es - meaning should i wait to hear back from your contact before i contact fnac?
thanks
mic

Comment 28

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #27)
> do you think la casa libre is better than fnac.es - meaning should i wait to
> hear back from your contact before i contact fnac?


I'd rather say they are different. If Mozilla Corp. feels that the searchplugin should provide both book and DVD/CD material, then I'd go with FNAC. If just books with a longer title catalog is desirable, the choice should be Casa del Libro. I have no special preference here: I buy DVDs at FNAC and books (specially computing science books) at Casa del Libro.

If neither Mozilla Corp. nor es-ES team have real preference, I can flip a coin. :-) FNAC heads, Casa del Libro tails.

Comment 29

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Let me play devil's advocate here. How about both?

The other devil says that casa del libro uses the Netscape icon as favicon, and they explicitly reference it. On the other hand there's fnac.es, that, if you type it in like that, doesn't respond (you need to type www.fnac.es).
So both have technical problems, which I'd prefer to see addressed if we include one and/or the other.

Comment 30

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #29)
> Let me play devil's advocate here. How about both?
>


I've just added Wikipedia searchplugin to es-ES, so es-ES already has 6 searchplugins. Replacing Amazon.com with Fnac.es and adding Casa del Libro would set us on 7. Is that allowed?


> The other devil says that casa del libro uses the Netscape icon as favicon, and
> they explicitly reference it. On the other hand there's fnac.es, that, if you
> type it in like that, doesn't respond (you need to type www.fnac.es).
> So both have technical problems, which I'd prefer to see addressed if we
> include one and/or the other.


I think these are different problems. I mean, directing to them saying "We'd like to add a searchplugin so people can search your products, but you really should fix this" while we have not yet settled on a final decission could look like (spanish said) "putting them a carrot in front of the donkey to get him running faster" and then removing the carrot if we finally don't include one (of both) of them.

I'd rather let them know those issues, but without suggesting that fixing such issues could influence the final decission about including them as searchplugins.

Comment 31

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

I think we're fine with RAE for now, we're still open with amazon.com vs fnac and/or cas libre.

Options I see:

1) keep amazon.com
2) not have any of the three
3) replace amazon.com with either fnac or casa libre
4) replace amazon.com with both.

From a timing perspective, I'd suggest we decide if we would remove amazon.com now.
I'm not feeling too good about flipping a coin between fnac or casa libre, if we had to, I'd recommend taking both. If we don't want to decide that now, I'd go for 'removal is hard, addition is easy' and remove amazon.com now, and add fnac and/or casa libre when we're ready.

Mic, what do you think?

Comment 32

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #31)
> I think we're fine with RAE for now, we're still open with amazon.com vs fnac
> and/or cas libre.
> 
> Options I see:
> 
> 1) keep amazon.com
> 2) not have any of the three
> 3) replace amazon.com with either fnac or casa libre
> 4) replace amazon.com with both.
> 
> From a timing perspective, I'd suggest we decide if we would remove amazon.com
> now.


I don't have a problem with that, because I don't really have the perception of spanish people using Amazon.com even close to FNAC.es or Casadellibro.com (not that I consider myself an expert in spanish netcitizens habits, though).


> I'm not feeling too good about flipping a coin between fnac or casa libre, if
> we had to, I'd recommend taking both. If we don't want to decide that now, I'd
> go for 'removal is hard, addition is easy' and remove amazon.com now, and add
> fnac and/or casa libre when we're ready.


Regarding contacting them, I haven't found a contact form or webmaster e-mail for FNAC.es that is not related to buying. I could send an e-mail to both FNAC.es and Casadellibro.com using the e-mail addresses of two of their shops, which are listed in their respective websites, but I'm not sure of what kind of anti-spam measure will they be using... :-)

Comment 33

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

Sorry, the form had the wrong item selected. Reopening...

Comment 34

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

Oopss.. The last was my fault, the other was already there.

Comment 35

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

Leaving things the way they should be...

Comment 36

[Mic Berman]

hey
comment #31
and john lilly's comment it's harder to remove
my suggestion is we leave amazon there and work on getting a proper local version for the next build
axel - what would be the timing/code freeze implications of that?
mic

Comment 37

[Mic Berman]

all
BD decision is to remove amazon and not provide replacement per axel's suggestion comment #31
let's figure out about replacement through seperate bug or email dialogue.
this bug is resovled fixed
thanks
mic

Comment 38

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Reopening, we actually need to implement the removal of amazon.com.

Comment 39

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #38)
> Reopening, we actually need to implement the removal of amazon.com.
> 


I guess this is my task. :-)

Comment 40

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

Done in branch (we have trunk outdated, so there is no point in doing it right now).

Closing again.

Comment 41

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #26)
> (In reply to comment #25)
> > rae was in 1.5 version right, so we should be ok to ship it in this version
> > without any dependencies on when we hear from them. eventually i would like to
> > get in touch with someone there.
> 
> 
> I've just received further notice of RAE (16:55 UTC, just seven minutes before
> your comment). In a quick translation, Mr. Guillermo Rojo acknowledges my
> request, including awareness of the fact that Firefox 1.5 was shipped with the
> searchplugin, and reports that next Government Body meeting will include our
> request in the agenda. There is no fixed date for the meeting, but it could
> happen next week.


Even if this bug has been marked as resolved/fixed, I think it's worth to notice that we have official permission from RAE (Royal Academy of Spanish Language) to include the searchplugin in Mozilla Firefox 2.0.

Mr. Guillermo Rojo, Secretary (*) of the RAE, has pointed out that the dictionary is indeed a join effort from all spanish language academies, and therefore not only they grant permission to es-ES to include it, but they also would be willing to see the searchplugin included in every es-* translation. I'll forward the message to Marcelo Poli (es-AR) so he is aware of it.

(*) Secretary not as a personal assistant or administrative staff; in some organizations like RAE, the Secretary (in upper case) position is kind of a "just under the top" position.

Comment 42

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Ricardo, even though this bug is fixed, Mic is still collecting detail information and approvals on the plugins we ship and used to ship.

I'd guess that she'd be happy to receive a forward of that mail.

Comment 43

[RickieES aka Ricardo Palomares]

(In reply to comment #42)
> Ricardo, even though this bug is fixed, Mic is still collecting detail
> information and approvals on the plugins we ship and used to ship.
> 
> I'd guess that she'd be happy to receive a forward of that mail.
> 


Mail just forwarded.