400398 - Remove the throbber from the menu bar / nav toolbar default set

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Firefox :: Tabbed Browser, enhancement)

Description

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Attachment: patch

This idea came up in bug 397723, in particular bug 397723 comment 94.

Comment 1

[Jesse Ruderman]

I don't like the idea of having to look in a different place depending on whether I have more than one tab open.

Comment 2

[Justin Dolske [:Dolske]]

Hmm, this would also mean that if a tab is hidden (ie, in overflow) and still loading, there's no visual indication that the browser is chugging away. I might be able to live with that, but if we still auto-collapse the tab strip when there's only 1 tab I'd agree with Jesse here.

Comment 3

[Rob Campbell [:rc] (:robcee)]

I think it's worth noting that the discussion which prompted this was the suggestion that the throbber should be invisible when not actually active. I think I'd prefer a disappearing throbber (empty space) next to the search field than a throbber that appears when the tabbar isn't visible.

Comment 4

[Colin Barrett [:cbarrett]]

(In reply to comment #3)
> I think it's worth noting that the discussion which prompted this was the
> suggestion that the throbber should be invisible when not actually active.

This is the way spinning progress indicators work on OS X. I don't really have a problem with the throbber being visible or not visible, but if it's going to look like a spinning progress indicator, it should behave consistently.

If we don't want to change the behavior I'd suggest we change the graphic to be something different.

Comment 5

[Justin Dolske [:Dolske]]

So, I'm told current thinking for the throbber is now more along the lines of bug Bug 402968. I think it accomplishes the same goal as this bug originally sought to (get rid of inactive throbber state), so depending on how you look at it this bug can be with a DUPE or WONTFIX...

Comment 6

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

(In reply to comment #5)
> So, I'm told current thinking for the throbber is now more along the lines of
> bug Bug 402968. I think it accomplishes the same goal as this bug originally
> sought to (get rid of inactive throbber state), so depending on how you look at
> it this bug can be with a DUPE or WONTFIX...

Can we still expect something from bug 402968?

Comment 7

[Justin Dolske [:Dolske]]

So, looks like the conclusion is that bug 402968 is a WONTFIX, and we should do it this way instead. >_< Reopening! :)

Comment 8

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Attachment: better patch

Comment 9

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Comment on attachment 300692 [details] [diff] [review]
better patch

Beltzner and Connor said they want this

Comment 10

[Mike Beltzner [:beltzner, not reading bugmail]]

Not a blocker, but wanted.

Dao: will this cause bouncy-ui? I'm just wondering how (if at all) the width of the search field is affected by this patch.

Comment 11

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Comment on attachment 300692 [details] [diff] [review]
better patch

This will shift the search bar on Mac. Should the space be preserved?

Comment 12

[Jesse Ruderman]

Beltzner and I agree that this should be WONTFIX.  What we should do instead is:

* Make the throbber invisible (transparent but taking up the same amount of space) when nothing is loading.  This would bring Windows in line with Mac, and it's just a matter of changing an image.

* Make the throbber visible in Customize Toolbars mode, so you can grab onto it easily if it is in a toolbar or recognize it easily if it is in the palette.

* MAYBE: if the user selects "always show the tab bar", automatically remove the throbber from whatever toolbar it is on.

Comment 13

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

(In reply to comment #12)
> Beltzner and I agree that this should be WONTFIX.  What we should do instead
> is:
> 
> * Make the throbber invisible (transparent but taking up the same amount of
> space) when nothing is loading.  This would bring Windows in line with Mac, and
> it's just a matter of changing an image.

This is rather unrelated and doesn't explain why this should be WONTFIXed. The Mac theme is already doing it, and it doesn't interfere with the goal of this bug.

> * MAYBE: if the user selects "always show the tab bar", automatically remove
> the throbber from whatever toolbar it is on.

I don't see why it should be limited to this case. A few moments ago I couldn't even tell if I set that pref, since I have multiple tabs pretty much always.

Comment 14

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Attachment: show the throbber if it's busy and the tab bar is collapsed

Comment 15

[Jesse Ruderman]

> This is rather unrelated and doesn't explain why this should be WONTFIXed

It's related in that it reduces the visual-complexity hit of having the throbber next to the menu bar (Windows) or on the navigation toolbar (Mac).

I already explained why this should be WONTFIXed, in comment 1: it would be really weird and inconsistent to have the activity indicator go away (from its normal location) depending on whether you have multiple tabs open.  Maybe *you* have a zillion tabs open all the time, so the inconsistency wouldn't bother you, but many people (including me) often have one or two.

Comment 16

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

(In reply to comment #15)
> > This is rather unrelated and doesn't explain why this should be WONTFIXed
> 
> It's related in that it reduces the visual-complexity hit of having the
> throbber next to the menu bar (Windows) or on the navigation toolbar (Mac).

The still throbber is a minor complexity hit compared to two spinning throbbers. But again, we can do both.

> I already explained why this should be WONTFIXed, in comment 1: it would be
> really weird and inconsistent to have the activity indicator go away (from its
> normal location) depending on whether you have multiple tabs open.  Maybe *you*
> have a zillion tabs open all the time, so the inconsistency wouldn't bother
> you, but many people (including me) often have one or two.

If we don't show the still throbber, it wouldn't "go away", it would just not appear anymore. For the user there's not really anything new to learn, since the throbber on the tabs has been there for ages and is just as attention-grabbing.
By the way, the assumption that I have a zillion tabs open all the time is wrong. I was talking about my main profile, which isn't the only one that I have and use.

Comment 17

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Morphing, given bug 392870 and bug 455864.

Comment 18

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Attachment: remove it

Comment 19

[u88484]

What does this have to do with easily discoverability of tab browsing for new users?

So now the throbber will only spin on the tab.  What about when tabs that are loading out of view on the tabstrip?

Comment 20

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

(In reply to comment #19)
> What does this have to do with easily discoverability of tab browsing for new
> users?

It depends on the browser.tabs.autoHide change.

> What about when tabs that are loading out of view on the tabstrip?

The toolbar throbber isn't global, so that's unrelated.

Comment 21

[Tony Mechelynck [:tonymec]]

(In reply to comment #14)
> Created an attachment (id=304348) [details]
> show the throbber if it's busy and the tab bar is collapsed

(In reply to comment #15)
> I already explained why this should be WONTFIXed, in comment 1: it would be
> really weird and inconsistent to have the activity indicator go away (from its
> normal location) depending on whether you have multiple tabs open.  Maybe *you*
> have a zillion tabs open all the time, so the inconsistency wouldn't bother
> you, but many people (including me) often have one or two.

I usually have a lot of tabs (150 in Firefox, 40 in SeaMonkey), but I also prefer to "always show the tab bar" because if for some reason I start the browser with only one tab, then if the tab bar isn't there I'm lost. Yet I think that the single throbber on the menubar or toolbar has a different functionality than the individual throbbers on all tabs, and I'd like it to stay, regardless of whether the tab bar is collapsed: I'm not always sure where to look for the current tab, but a revolving (or otherwise moving) throbber at a fixed location near top right is something I couldn't miss. So I agree with comment #15 even though I have many tabs open most of the time.

Comment 22

[Danny]

IMO the throbber on toolbar must stay. It is important as it shows that there's still some activity in tabs (loading, script running, etc). Instead of looking through the line of tabs you can simply look on right upper corner. And, if needed, it can be removed manually by user, so I don't think it's worth a bug.

(In reply to comment #20)
> (In reply to comment #19)
> > What about when tabs that are loading out of view on the tabstrip?
> 
> The toolbar throbber isn't global, so that's unrelated.

Isn't global? I thought it was.
Then, if it's not global, what exactly does it indicate?

Comment 23

[u88484]

> (In reply to comment #20)
> > (In reply to comment #19)
> > > What about when tabs that are loading out of view on the tabstrip?
> > 
> > The toolbar throbber isn't global, so that's unrelated.
> 
> Isn't global? I thought it was.
> Then, if it's not global, what exactly does it indicate?

Yeah, it is not global.  So it's only purpose is to indicate the active tab activity.  It does seem pretty pointless when you think about it though.  I think the best thing to do would be to make it global since if there are tabs loading out of view on the tabstrip, users will at least know there is network activity/some tab sucking up cpu power.

Comment 24

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

Comment on attachment 339241 [details] [diff] [review]
remove it

get a ui-r before landing. I don't like this myself.

Comment 25

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

We could also leave the throbber in the customization palette, if we wanted.

Comment 26

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Attachment: leave it in the customization sheet

As I wontfixed bug 455864, it makes more sense to leave the throbber in the customization sheet.

Comment 27

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

Ask ux.

Comment 28

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

The removal of the toolbar throbber has been discussed with Alex and Beltzner. I asked Beltzner if we should leave it in the customization sheet but he wasn't sure. We can still do that later if wanted.

Comment 29

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

(In reply to comment #28)
> We can still do that later if wanted.

I.e. remove it entirely.

Comment 30

[Alex Faaborg [:faaborg] (Firefox UX)]

Comment on attachment 340549 [details] [diff] [review]
leave it in the customization sheet

Giving user's the ability to customize their browser is overall a good thing, so ui-r+  (although I don't really agree with the user's decision to have a throbber visually disconnected and distant from the thing that it is representing feedback for).

Comment 31

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

Attachment: updated to trunk

Comment 32

[Asaf Romano (gone)]

Comment on attachment 344740 [details] [diff] [review]
updated to trunk

r=mano

Comment 33

[Dão Gottwald [:dao]]

http://hg.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/rev/ab03149a5b63