428177 - [id] "Getting started" page for Firefox 3, potential link changes

Status: RESOLVED WORKSFORME

(Mozilla Localizations :: id / Indonesian, defect)

Description

[Pascal Chevrel:pascalc (PTO until April 26)]

This bug deals with the potential productization changes for the getting started page in bug #428145

Read bug #428145 for more details.

If you think your locale needs to have some link changes in the above bug, propose them here for approval. If you don't, just close the bug.

Comment 1

[rodin]

Sorry everyone for latency,

Work:
- nochange google and linkedin, but rememberthemilk is not so popular, so maybe we have to do some reorder: google, linkedin, rememberthemilk

Learn:
- can we just put id.wikipedia.org directly? rather than enter wikipedia and choose Indonesia
- ilmukomputer.com is a large collection for computer learning related stuff in indonesian, is the topic too narrow?

Play:
- youtube is the best, but given some recent mumbo-jumbo from our government (http://www.thejakartapost.com/news/2008/04/01/indonesian-threatens-block-youtube-access-over-antimuslim-film.html) somehow make me doubt, unless they have settled on the that problem, we will have some video blocked (without proper error message), previously it is blocked for the whole site
- getmiro is ok, afterall the main problem here is limited international bandwidth (the popular term is "fakir bandwidth", referring to islamic term for poor people: "fakir"), although national bandwidth is fast enough. So downloading from application is preferred
- maybe the third one is layartancap.com, it is like youtube.

Connect:
- friendster is the best and the most popular, they started giving Indonesian locale last month (still in beta though)
- Can we suggest blogging service here? Blogging is popular here, i know it doesn't resemble 'Connect', but where should I put it? there is blogdetik.com or dagdigdug.com, both are wordpress multi user installation.
- Another possibility is 'forum type', kaskus.us is like what it said, the largest indonesian community, is it possible?

Comment 2

[rodin]

Ahh, I miss one thing for Connect: 
- Meebo, Yahoo Messenger is also very popular here

Comment 3

[Mic Berman]

all these suggestions are good, please go ahead an make changes and then we can close bug
layartancap.com - cool :)
blogdetik.com - i get our point but it looks like people can participate with each through blogs, and it's good indonesian content which is most important
great :)

Comment 4

[Mic Berman]

can we go ahead and close this bug?
also would you like to contact these companies to let them know about our recommendations or should i?

Comment 5

[rodin]

Need one-two day for decision. Already contacted with the Indonesian sites, none of them refused, in fact they are very happy. Do I have to ask them to get permission for the image link?

Comment 6

[rodin]

So here it goes, 

Work (translation: Bekerja):
- googledocs
- linkedin
- rememberthemilk

Learn (translation: Belajar)
- id.wikipedia.org
- ilmukomputer.com - already contacted and said ok
- ummm, maybe bukukita.com (online book store with review) or ncc-indonesia.com (cooking recipes site), note comment below

Play: (translation: Hiburan - means entertainment)
- layartancap.com - already contacted and said ok
- getmiro.com 
- youtube


Connect: (translation: Komunitas - means community)
- friendster.com - contacted but no reply
- dagdigdug.com - already contacted and said ok, note comment below
- kaskus.us - already contacted and said ok
- firefox add-on: meebo (yahoo messenger is clear winner)

--
Comment on Learn:
- It seems everybody are using yahoogroups or discussions forum to bring interactivity with users. Oh wait, they are all using that stuff. There are 3 online bookstore sites mentioned on http://www.virtual.co.id/blog/dotcom/pasar-toko-buku-online-makin-besar-tapi-jangan-silau/ (the owner of the blog is the pioneer of the most successful Indonesian news site, the living legend of indonesia dotcom: www.detik.com, so i guess his opinion is very important). Three sites mentioned: 
- inibuku.com
- bukukita.com
- kutukutubuku.com

The only site that provide user account (for review, and i thought it is good for interactivity) right into visitor's face is bukukita.com.
- inibuku.com and bukukita.com provides yahoogroups but bukukita.com provides more link: blog (which is popular) and friendster (also popular).
- kutukutubuku.com provides user account login also, but the place is on the right side below, so i think bukukita.com is a winner 

The other possibility is ncc-indonesia.com, it is popular (they provide a cooking course). but the only interactivity provided is yahoogroups

So bukukita is slightly a winner (have a review system)

Mic, Pascal, if you don't have objection i'll put bukukita.com.

--
Comment on Connect
- the translation of Connect in Indonesian is rather weird, so we think that Komunitas (english: community) is better
- having hard times when choosing blogdetik.com or dagdigdug.com, the man behind of those sites are friends of each other and both are very good. After creating a poll, 2 people choose dagdigdug.com and it is older a little bit than blogdetik.com. So there it is: dagdigdug.com.

--
A note about interactivity
While firefox is providing a better online interactivity, i think the most popular web application here is: email, hence yahoo/googlegroups+yahoo messenger. So we are heading in the right path with web-protocol handler mailto: and of course ymsg:

Comment 7

[Mic Berman]

thank you for all these great suggestions.
i'm not sure what ilmukomputer.com is?
how is dagdigdug.com community? is it because blog says what people are doing?
and kaskus is a forum right?

thanks for clarifications

Comment 8

[rodin]

(In reply to comment #7)
> i'm not sure what ilmukomputer.com is?
It is a web site about computer and technology tutorial and article in Bahasa Indonesia. People can write their article and get reviewed. So there are enough aspects to be categorized as Learning: computer+technology tutorial, writing, and sharing. While government is struggling with their buzz about e-Learning, this site has been providing the real one since 2003 in the most simplest way for Indonesians, plus has won WSIS award. Note that the founder _is_ a government researcher employee, but ilmukomputer.com does not have any affiliate with government AFAIK.

I suggest this is a must.

> how is dagdigdug.com community? is it because blog says what people are doing?
I think the most appropiate term to describe is: from bloggers, for bloggers. 
We called the men behind dagdigdug (Enda Nasution - http://enda.goblogmedia.com), "Indonesian blogger president", Paman Tyo (http://blogombal.org) also has _some_ blogs about interesting Indonesian daily living, and also some others previously founder and worked on detik.com (well, the living legend). I get the list from Indonesian first professional blogger: Budi Putra (just google it). And I guess Enda, Paman Tyo, Budi Putra and some others like priyadi.net are responsible for blogging poison in Indonesia.

And bloggers even had a national scale party! - http://pestablogger.com, just search it on flickr (search term pb2007) and you've got a bunch of photos, and google too.

Uh oh, according one of the dagdigdug team, Firefox _is_ already a winner :D,
http://bambangp.dagdigdug.com/2008/04/22/browser-pilihan-dagdigduger/ 

Again, note that choosing between blogdetik.com and dagdigdug.com is _very_ hard, some even suggested that I should suggest them both and strip out Friendster. My only objection to this is that they provide the same service type.

When I ask both sites about the possibility to be linked in this getting started page, both said "it's an honour". I feel disheartened to choose one of them. I'm asking them from the list Budi Putra gave me, and they have provide a nice Indonesian language support. There are another sites like bedeng.com and asiablogging.com but they don't have much Indonesian language support and interface while blogdetik.com and dagdigdug.com have. So I guess I have to be fair to ask them both first.

I do not have any affiliate with all sites I mentioned nor know any person above personally. I even do not blogging seriously, just some words like in twitter. I guess I have to restart it rather seriously so we can attract more contributors for Mozilla.

Well, every site I contacted said their agreement in the first place, I guess Firefox has already win in Indonesians heart. Now it's time for us to make it available for Indonesian who don't speak English.

> and kaskus is a forum right?
Yes, been around since 2000. According Indonesian wikipedia, the member is about 330.000 and has won the award for the biggest community and also the best website. I just found out they have an addons for browsing the site. I'll try to contact the developer found out about fx3 update.

> 
> thanks for clarifications

Many thanks Mic, sorry for the rambling around.
> 

Comment 9

[Mic Berman]

thanks for clarification
ok ilmukomputer.com
kaskus - that's really cool. i've never heard of a forum that large before. 
that's a tough decision about dagdigdug.com, so we should follow your instincts there.
:) please go ahead, and if we have not more changes let's close this bug

Comment 10

[rodin]

email sent to bukukita.com, ilmukomputer.com, kaskus.us, layartancap.com, and friendster.com, informed about our link and asking permissions about site image.

Comment 11

[Mic Berman]

thanks

Comment 12

[rodin]

Attachment: Site-image for dagdigdug

Email contains permissions from Antyo Rentjoko has already forwarded to mic

Comment 13

[rodin]

Attachment: Site-image for ilmukomputer.com

Email permission for site image from Romi Satria Wahono is already forwarded to mic

Comment 14

[rodin]

Attachment: Site-image for bukukita

Email permission for site image from Setiawan is already forwarded to mic

Comment 15

[rodin]

Attachment: Site-image for kaskus

Email permission for site image from Kaskus Indonesia is already forwarded to mic

Comment 16

[rodin]

Attachment: Site-image for friendster

Email permission for site image from David Jones, VP Global Sales Friendster.inc is already forwarded to mic
This is the biggest image and must be resized, he sent me couple images, but the others is not good enough when I tried to resize it

Comment 17

[rodin]

(In reply to comment #13)
> Created an attachment (id=321292) [details]
> Site-image for ilmukomputer.com

If this is too small, I'll try to get appropiate one.

Sorry for the spam

Comment 18

[Pascal Chevrel:pascalc (PTO until April 26)]

I think we are done on this bug, romi, mic?

If we are ok on the changes please attach the final version of the getting started bug to the main bug? thanks

Comment 19

[rodin]

Yap, I've got no good candidates for job-search to replace rememberthemilk as discussed on #l10n with mic sometimes ago. This can wait for another release I think. Closing this bugthen, heading up the the parent bug.

Comment 20

[rodin]

Sorry for hitting the commit too soon, the final list is:

Work:
- googledocs
- id.openoffice.org (as discussed with mic in #l10n)
- linkedin (forget my comment #19, Indonesian don't make todo list online)
- no change on en-US addon

Learn (translation: Belajar)
- id.wikipedia.org
- ilmukomputer.com
- bukukita.com
- no change on en-US addon

Play: (translation: Hiburan - means entertainment)
- layartancap.com
- getmiro.com 
- youtube
- no change on en-US addon

Connect: (translation: Komunitas - means community)
- friendster.com
- dagdigdug.com
- kaskus.us
- addon: meebo

Comment 21

[rodin]

Reopened.

Reason: 
- Friendster popularity is getting lower and translation is poor.
- Facebook popularity is raising and have a better localization including in help section.

Popularity trends by google in Indonesia:
http://google.com/trends?q=facebook%2C+friendster&ctab=0&geo=id&date=all&sort=0

Is OK to change Friendster to Facebook?

Thanks,
Romi

Comment 22

[Axel Hecht [:Pike]]

Romi, what's the current status on this?

Comment 23

[rodin]

Well, I just wait for seth for permission to commit.
Friendster is now a graveyard. Here, people are using twitter and facebook like nuts.
I also would like to change ilmukomputer.com to ilmukomputer.org, so it will direct the actual community site. The owner of ilmukomputer.com has changed the redirection.

Comment 24

[Seth Bindernagel]

Hi Romi,

I don't think we need to focus on the Getting Started page right now because the page is pretty much going away.  We also generall don't like to recommend services like Faceboook which require an account for people to participate.  But, since you had Friendster and most people are using Facebook, I see no reason to not make the change. Go for it.

But, as I said, it may all be moot since I believe the page is going away.

Comment 25

[Milos Dinic [:Milos]]

This page is long gone, and we don't serve it any more. There's a new page though, that's rather big - features page. As it can be hard to maintain this page, we don't ask all our localization teams to deal with it, but only those who have the manpower for that.

That said, I'm resolving WORKSFORME this bug, and if you want to translate the Features page, even though you're not required to, please let me know and I'll open a new bug for you.

Thanks!