Closed Bug 443375 Opened 16 years ago Closed 16 years ago

[th] Search engine setup for Firefox 3 for Thai.

Categories

(Mozilla Localizations :: th / Thai, defect)

defect
Not set
normal

Tracking

(Not tracked)

RESOLVED FIXED

People

(Reporter: Pike, Unassigned)

References

Details

Attachments

(1 file, 2 obsolete files)

We want to ship Firefox 3 a good list of search engines for Thai. 

We're going to work towards this in three phases. First, the localization team and Mic (Michal Berman) will look at the market for the language and come up with a good set of search providers. Isriya, we'll need your input on this, the guidelines for making recommendations are on http://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox_web_services_guidelines. Gen might be able to help out, too.

For en-US, we currently use this set, to which we can fall back in the case of lacking localized alternatives:
Google, Yahoo, Amazon, Answers, CC, eBay, Wikipedia

After we decided on a particular search engine, Mic will contact the owner and ask for permission, and for specifics like proper search flags. undefined, we'll likely need your help to at least get the contact information.

Once we have a specification on what the searchengines for Thai should look like, the localization team and Axel will work on an implementation on that. This should happen by the localization team creating and attaching patches for the desired changes, and requesting review from Axel. After a successful review, the localization team will land them.

Please don't commit any modifications in l10n/th/browser/searchplugins to the cvs repository without a patch reviewed by Axel or someone else appointed by Mic. The data here is sensitive to users and our search partners, thus the extra care here.
Most of default en-US have localized version for Thailand.

My proposal

Generic (2)
- Google Thailand (www.google.co.th)
- Yahoo Thailand (th.yahoo.com)

eCommerce (2)
- to be discussed

Specific Search (2)
- Wikipedia Thai
- Longdo English-Thai Dictionary (dict.longdo.com) - engine now is available on Mycroft project

In my opinion, I think it's fine to keep Creative Commons in but virtually none of Thai people know about Answers.com
From the guideline and en-US build, the two e-Commerce sites are Amazon and eBay.

Current situation for these two:
- No Amazon Thai Edition
- There is eBay Thailand but now it has been merged with Sanook (sanook.com, #1 web site in term of traffic). Now ebay.co.th redirects to shopping.sanook.com

I'm not quite sure about the criteria of selection. Beside of Sanook, these are popular Thai generic e-Commerce sites. The rank comes from TrueHits (http://shopping.truehits.net), semi-government traffic tracking service.

- Pramool.com - auction/2nd hand/classified
- weloveshopping.com - retail/mall/2nd hand
- Tarad.com - retail/mall
- Pantipmarket.com - retail/2nd hand/classified
- Thaisecondhand.com - retail/2nd hand (same owner with Tarad.com)

all these sites are popular, famous and can be 'trusted'
Mic,

For the Longdo Dictionary case, I invite Pattara, the owner of Longdo, in the CCed list of this bug for the contact purpose.
Mic and Axel,

In the e-Commerce section, it's quite hard to choose.

I posted a request-for-comment on Blognone.com [1], a IT community in Thailand (also my site). The language is in Thai but the content is almost the same as in comment #3. The result is people propose the e-Commerce site they like. No one gains the majority vote nor we tend to find the consensus.

Do you have any other criteria for this case? If global famous is more important, we can keep Amazon.com and eBay.com as some people suggest.

If you prefer local ones, how can we choose only two sites from 6-7 choices? I'm afraid that choosing one or two commercial provider will benefit them in term of traffic while dismiss the rest with no obvious reason.

How about other localized builds? How do they deal with this problem?

[1] http://www.blognone.com/node/8240
(In reply to comment #2)
> 
> In my opinion, I think it's fine to keep Creative Commons in but virtually none
> of Thai people know about Answers.com
> 

I agree with Isriya's proposal to take out Answers.com but keep Creative Commons.

(In reply to comment #5)
 
> How about other localized builds? How do they deal with this problem?
> 

In Japan we have chosen the top traffic sites for ecommerce (Rakuten) and for auction (Yahoo! Japan) while also keeping Amazon Japan as it is popular here.

Traffic measure is one good metric.  If there is a clear local leader for ecommerce or auction, then it is a good measure of the popularity, trust and value of that service.
(In reply to comment #7)
> (In reply to comment #5)
> 
> > How about other localized builds? How do they deal with this problem?
> > 
> 
> In Japan we have chosen the top traffic sites for ecommerce (Rakuten) and for
> auction (Yahoo! Japan) while also keeping Amazon Japan as it is popular here.
> 
> Traffic measure is one good metric.  If there is a clear local leader for
> ecommerce or auction, then it is a good measure of the popularity, trust and
> value of that service.
> 

Gen, that's my problem. In Thailand, there is no clear leader in ecommerce market.

I tend to keep the Amazon.com/eBay.com combination (like en-US) to avoid this conflict. Since all Thai Firefox users now use en-US version, the experience would be the same.
(In reply to comment #8)

> I tend to keep the Amazon.com/eBay.com combination (like en-US) to avoid this
> conflict. Since all Thai Firefox users now use en-US version, the experience
> would be the same.
> 

I would support you on this decision.
Component: Other → th / Thai
QA Contact: thai.th
per comments 8 and 9 - ok on keeping en-US defaults for ecommerce - we can launch and see how people provide feedback on the experience over the year

the only other measure that sometimes helps to choose (although I have a feeling will not help this case) is a review of user experience, especially in ecommerce sites. ensuring the experience is a good one - simple, no malicious or funny dealings. for example, in other countries some sits pre-rank their product search based on who pays them to rank their products higher ;) not so good

so the current list is:
google (thai geo targetted)
yahoo (same)
Amazon.com
Creative Commons
ebay.co.th
dict.longdo.com
Wikipedia (thai version)

for dict.longdo.com - we will need their explicit permission which he can post in this bug. Do you know if they have already built a plug-in? and what their search parameters are e.g., from=fx3

Mic,

eBay.co.th is just alias for new service (shopping.sanook.com). So let it be ebay.com instead. Same reason as Amazon.

Longdo plugin (Sherlock) is available on Mycroft project [1]. Pattara (Longdo's owner) is already in CC list of this bug.

[1]:http://mycroft.mozdev.org/search-engines.html?name=longdo&sherlock=yes&opensearch=yes
Permission granted for Mozilla crew to include dict.longdo.com in search engines list for Firefox 3. Thanks Isriya for the notice.

Pattara - on behalf of Metamedia Technology Co., Ltd., Longdo.COM owner
Pattara, thank you very much for your permission.

For the technical part, we'll need to implement the search engine in MozSearch, our dialect of OpenSearch. http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Creating_MozSearch_plugins has more on that.

Looking at the sherlock plugin on mozdev, the query url looks like

http://dict.longdo.com/?sourceid=Mozilla-search&search=firefox

Is that the right URL? Does it send the right flags you want, in particular the sourceid one?

I also see that you're doing search suggestions on your web interface, it might be interesting to look at exposing that to Firefox' search, there's documentation on what that takes on the server side on http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Supporting_search_suggestions_in_search_plugins.
(In reply to comment #13)
[..]
> Looking at the sherlock plugin on mozdev, the query url looks like
> http://dict.longdo.com/?sourceid=Mozilla-search&search=firefox
> Is that the right URL? Does it send the right flags you want, in particular the
> sourceid one?

May I change it to http://dict.longdo.com/?src=moz&search=firefox ?

> I also see that you're doing search suggestions on your web interface, it might
> be interesting to look at exposing that to Firefox' search, there's
> documentation on what that takes on the server side on
> http://developer.mozilla.org/en/docs/Supporting_search_suggestions_in_search_plugins.

That sounds good, will check it out. Thank you very much for the info..

Cheers,
pattara
(In reply to comment #14)
> (In reply to comment #13)
> > I also see that you're doing search suggestions on your web interface, it might
> > be interesting to look at exposing that to Firefox' search, there's
> 
> That sounds good, will check it out. Thank you very much for the info..

fyi, current Longdo OpenSearch plugin at
http://siit.net/members/art/searchplugins/#opensearch
already does search suggestion,
but it use the suggestion service from Google.
To use Longdo's own suggestion, you can look around this line:

<os:Url type="application/x-suggestions+json" method="GET" template="http://suggestqueries.google.com/complete/search?output=firefox&amp;client=firefox&amp;qu={searchTerms}">
</os:Url>

Notes on Longdo OpenSearch plugin is avail at:
http://bact.blogspot.com/2006/07/longdo-opensearch.html
Isriya, from comment #10, and comment #3: 
I'd like to finalize the list so we can ship this week. The only outstanding issue is whether to keep Amazon or replace with a local ecommerce provider.
in reviewing the list provided in comment #3, imho of the "retail" sites as the 2nd ecommerce engine is usually a retail type plug in it seems to me tarad.com is the best of the other shopping engines for the following reasons:
it provides a clear set of results
it includes prices
the wolveshopping has a teaser before it lets you in (not a great user experience) 

having said all that, i'm not sure we'd have enough time to get their permission and build a search plug-in in time for code freeze this friday. so here are some suggestions:
as this is a beta build (is that right Pike?) we could ship with the list we have in comment #10 and then add one of the retail engines e.g., tarad.com in a subsequent build. the only user issue with that is, the way our search plug-ins work we would no be able to replace amazon (long technical story) but only add tarad.com to the list 

so, if you feel strongly that tarad or another local provider should be there then we would need to move quickly to do that this week in time for friday's code freeze.

please advise your recommendation, thanks
Yes, the first release will be a beta release, so we could start off with an incomplete set of plugins. We should have all removals of en-US ones though.
Mic, we can go with list in comment #10 then.
I don't see us having come to a conclusion on ebay.com vs ebay.co.th vs shopping.sanook.com.
from comment #11 and my understanding from eBay we should use ebay.com which redirects by geotarget
#19, #20 that's right. I think ebay.com is the best option.
isriya, can you submit a patch for review?
Attached patch MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n. (obsolete) — Splinter Review
MozSearch plugins patch for Thai l10n.

I've add Longdo Dictionary search as Pattara's comment #14.
Attachment #332714 - Flags: review?
Attachment #332714 - Attachment is patch: true
Attachment #332714 - Attachment mime type: application/octet-stream → text/plain
Comment on attachment 332714 [details] [diff] [review]
MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n.

r-. The en-US plugins are picked up from the original en-US directory by the build system, and shouldn't be added to the l10n dirs.

wikipedia looks ok, but should be named wikipedia-th.xml (adjust list.txt, too, please)

longdo is mostly good, the sourceid param should have "src" as name, though. And please remove the google suggest, that doesn't look like the right thing to do.

Not really there, but close, please attach a new patch with the comments addressed. Make sure to clean up around the locally added files in your working copy, too.
Attachment #332714 - Flags: review? → review-
Attachment #332714 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attached patch MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n. (obsolete) — Splinter Review
Patch reflected comment #24.
Attachment #332716 - Flags: review?(axel)
Comment on attachment 332716 [details] [diff] [review]
MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n.

For future reference, please hit the "patch" checkbox when attaching patches, then I don't have to ;-).

And I don't use axel@pike.org for l10n stuff at all, use l10n@mozilla.com bugmail instead, please.
Attachment #332716 - Attachment is patch: true
Attachment #332716 - Attachment mime type: application/octet-stream → text/plain
Comment on attachment 332716 [details] [diff] [review]
MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n.

r- again.

list.txt needs to list all plugins you want to ship, it's merely the xml files that are not needed.

More importantly though, you broke your working copy by cvs adding the revision control files in CVS (or adding CVS). Please fix those problems before proceeding.

I'd like to get a new patch again, to make sure we don't break CVS as we go.
Attachment #332716 - Flags: review?(axel) → review-
Attachment #332716 - Attachment is obsolete: true
It's my low experiences on those above 2 patches, sorry about that.

Hope this time is the correct one.
Attachment #332718 - Flags: review?
Attachment #332718 - Flags: review? → review?(axel)
Comment on attachment 332718 [details] [diff] [review]
MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n (landed)

right patch, wrong requestee still ;-)

Anyway, please land this with a check-in comment referencing this bug and my review. Something like "bug 443375, use th.wikipedia.org instead of en, add dict.londo.org, r=l10n@mozilla.com" would do.
Attachment #332718 - Flags: review?(axel) → review+
Comment on attachment 332718 [details] [diff] [review]
MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n (landed)

bug 443375, use th.wikipedia.org instead of en.wikipedia.org, add
dict.londo.org, r=l10n@mozilla.com
(In reply to comment #30)
> (From update of attachment 332718 [details] [diff] [review])
> bug 443375, use th.wikipedia.org instead of en.wikipedia.org, add
> dict.londo.org, r=l10n@mozilla.com
> 

oops, my bad, again.

I don't have write permission yet (Bug 443570), would you please sponsor?
Bug 443570 is merely for svn access to our websites, and wouldn't grant you write priviledges to the source code. If you want that, too, please file a new bug with the template given in http://wiki.mozilla.org/L10n:Becoming_an_Official_Localization#CVS_write_access, CC me and Isriya. Isriya should vouch for you, too. Make sure to reference bug 443570 for the form and ssh key, too.

I see that Isriya's account isn't up yet either, I'll move that over to IT.
Comment on attachment 332718 [details] [diff] [review]
MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n (landed)

This attachment landed.
Attachment #332718 - Attachment description: MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n. → MozSearch plugins for Thai l10n (landed)
Mic, the current list is 

amazondotcom
creativecommons
eBay
google
longdo
wikipedia-th
yahoo

Can this be closed or do we need further changes?

FWIW, I removed answers.com, too, without a patch, though. Bad me.
Axel, Can I add longdo search suggestion later?
Yes, adding a suggest feature to an existing plugin later is no problem. File a bug once that's up and CC me, and attach a patch for review there.
(In reply to comment #36)
> Yes, adding a suggest feature to an existing plugin later is no problem. File a
> bug once that's up and CC me, and attach a patch for review there.
> 

Axel, bug 450772 has been filed for longdo search suggestion.
Since wikipedia-th and longdo are landed. Can we mark this bug as fixed?
Yes, thanks Isriya and Patipat. Marking as fixed. Please file a new bug should you want to revisit the decisions about the e-commerce plugins.
Status: NEW → RESOLVED
Closed: 16 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
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