rebrand "RSS News & Blogs" to "Blogs & News Feeds"

RESOLVED FIXED in Thunderbird 3.0b3

Status

defect
RESOLVED FIXED
11 years ago
11 years ago

People

(Reporter: mkmelin, Assigned: mkmelin)

Tracking

Trunk
Thunderbird 3.0b3

Firefox Tracking Flags

(Not tracked)

Details

Attachments

(2 attachments, 2 obsolete attachments)

I'm think the "RSS News & Blogs" account type name is
 - confusing (esp. wrt "news" vs "nntp")
 - technically incorrect as it supports both RSS and Atom formats

I suggest we rebrand them to "RSS/Atom Feeds". This would say more, be correct, and make it more clear we're a feed reader too.
I think a name change is a good idea, but I was hoping to somehow be less technical.  Not quite sure how...

A data point from last year:
http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/zeitgeist2007/mind.html

For "What is..." searches RSS comes up at number 3
(In reply to comment #1)
> A data point from last year:
> http://www.google.com/intl/en/press/zeitgeist2007/mind.html
> 
> For "What is..." searches RSS comes up at number 3

I'm not sure how valid that statistic is. The "Who is..." statistics show three religious entries, one scientist, one technical entry (number 3, even!), and five of them are obviously people playing around. The "How to..." statistics don't seem relevant (although note that the technical entry pops up at number 4).

The "What is..." statistics themselves are difficult to interpret; the first one is skewed by playing around and the fact that it's a song; the presence of autism, sap, and emo in the top ten list seem to indicate to me that the list is stuff that people know of and know about on a high level but are interested in learning more about. So my interpretation of "What is RSS" on that list is that people know in general that "RSS is some newfangled Web thing" but are trying to figure out its uses.
I think it's pretty hard to pull from those stats the meaning of the other searches for love or religion as a direct meaning to RSS.  My point is really that it's either very undefined for many people (what I believe to be true) or that .  Is putting an option for RSS is on equal weight as an option for Love or Religion?

Create:
 ( ) Love
 ( ) Religion
 (o) RSS

:)

We have a concern about using the word "News" because it might confuse NNTP users.  I think we can remove that term as I'm not sure it's necessary.

I think what the google stat does show is that there are lots of people searching for answers on RSS.  And so I don't think using the term RSS, and especially Atom are going to be helpful.

What I think we need to design a combination of icon text and typographic layout to get the desired effect.  ( ex: http://clarkbw.net/tmp/feed-reader.html )  I'm using the term "Feed Reader" because in a quick search in Google that's the common term I found.  But really it's the combination effect of the icon, text, and tech terms that should clue everyone into what we're getting at.
I see your point, but NNTP users are not so easily confused :-) Blogs is really the term that everyone knows, so it would be nice to leverage that somehow.
(In reply to comment #5)
> I see your point, but NNTP users are not so easily confused :-) Blogs is really
> the term that everyone knows, so it would be nice to leverage that somehow.

It's not the NNTP users I'm worried about, it's the other users; I've seen at least one instance of someone using `news' to refer to an RSS account (I don't remember where, though).
Well, we call it News and Blogs, so that's not surprising. Not to beat a dead horse, but I get a lot more of my "news" from rss feeds than I do from newsgroups :-)
Ok, i updated the design ( http://clarkbw.net/tmp/feed-reader.html ) to show a couple different options side by side. I think I like the Blogs & Feeds or Blogs & News Feeds best; both avoid directly using the terms RSS and Atom.  I don't know about using the word News, but I think it could fit in there pretty well.
My preferences (in order):
Option 2: Blogs & Feeds      <-- prefer
Option 4: RSS/Atom Feeds
Option 3: Blogs & News Feeds
Option 1: Feed Reader
Option 5: RSS News & Blogs   <-- strong dislike
JFTR: RSS and Atom are rather technical, users are more likely to recognise feeds by the common icon than by these two terms. News is a bit redundant and given that we usually (historically?) mean NNTP by that, it doesn't help lower possible Whassit? recations.
So I'd prefer "Blogs & Feeds" or possibly even just "Feeds".
Agreed that having RSS & Atom in big type is too technical.  "Reader" seems odd, since we don't talk about Message Reader or Mail Reader.  

I'm kinda partial to Blogs & News Feeds.
I actually like the Blogs & News Feeds the best as well.

Here's my plan forward.  I think we should leave this open for a little more discussion to see if anyone has more suggestions or opinions.  Then by end of this week, Nov. 7th 2008, I'll roll together suggestions and put out a decision; since I'm the default human shield for strings changes and other sharp things.  Then (and only then!) can people start to scream and curse my name over the choice. :)  Sound fair?
Sounds reasonable to me.  :-)
I like it as well...in fact, I like it so much I'm going to change the summary of this bug - hope that's OK
Summary: rebrand "RSS News & Blogs" to "RSS/Atom Feeds" → rebrand "RSS News & Blogs" to "Blogs & News Feeds"
Yeah might be good to have "Blogs" in there...
I think we should get rid of "RSS" in the UI as far as we can and use "feed(s)" where possible as in most cases we are talking about both RSS and Atom formats and people should need to care what actual formats are behind this, and "feeds" are a general enough description of what those are doing.
This is not only about that account type but all of the newsblog UI.
Posted patch proposed fix (obsolete) — Splinter Review
Rebrand, make the main account page title the same as other account types, fix a branding issue, and add a couple of "..."s, and add better title than "Alert" for invalid feed and network error dialogs.
Attachment #362474 - Flags: review?(philringnalda)
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Target Milestone: --- → Thunderbird 3.0b3
Attachment #362474 - Flags: superreview?(neil)
If we're going to copy the am-serverwithnoidentities pattern of copying am-main, I think it would be better to use <!ENTITY accountTitle.label "Account Settings"> to make it clearer that we really mean to have three entities which should all have exactly the same value by giving all three exactly the same name. (Of course, I think it would be better-better to just have one, but I've never dealt with am panels enough to know how possible that is.)
Attachment #362474 - Flags: superreview?(neil) → superreview+
Fixed the entity name to be the same as the other ones. I guess it would be possible to move the code to some "shared" location, but it's just a few lines semiduplicated code so I don't think it's necessarily worth it.

Carrying fwd sr=neil
Attachment #362474 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #362754 - Flags: superreview+
Attachment #362754 - Flags: review?(philringnalda)
Attachment #362474 - Flags: review?(philringnalda)
Comment on attachment 362754 [details] [diff] [review]
proposed fix, v2

r=me, but...

>--- a/mailnews/extensions/newsblog/content/am-newsblog.js
>+++ b/mailnews/extensions/newsblog/content/am-newsblog.js
>@@ -1,10 +1,11 @@
>-# -*- Mode: Java; tab-width: 4; indent-tabs-mode: nil; c-basic-offset: 4 -*-
>+<?xml version="1.0"?>
>+# -*- Mode: Java; tab-width: 2; indent-tabs-mode: nil; c-basic-offset: 2 -*-

wherever (if anywhere) you really meant to put that XML decl, I don't think it was in am-newsblog.JS ;)
Attachment #362754 - Flags: review?(philringnalda) → review+
Nice catch, don't know how that snuck in there!

changeset:   2155:c1bbdab1b73b
http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/c1bbdab1b73b

->FIXED
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 11 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
There's one more "RSS News & Blogs" occurence:

http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/locales/en-US/chrome/messenger/msgAccountCentral.dtd#19
> <!ENTITY rssSectionHdr.label          "RSS News &amp; Blogs"> 

And what about:

http://mxr.mozilla.org/comm-central/source/mail/locales/en-US/chrome/messenger/defaultClientDialog.dtd#6
> <!ENTITY rss.label "RSS Feeds">
Status: RESOLVED → REOPENED
Resolution: FIXED → ---
Posted patch proposed fix, part 2 (obsolete) — Splinter Review
Remaining parts, i hope.

I mostly used the "short" version here, as it looked better given the account name also has an '&' mark in it unless you change the defaults.
Attachment #366402 - Flags: superreview?(neil)
Attachment #366402 - Flags: review?(philringnalda)
Go go gadget inadequate review!

While you're in account central, could you please fix the "subscibeRSS.label" that I missed noticing in that subscibe -> subscribe bug?

And, didn't you totally break am-newsblog for suite? mxr and my repo seem to agree that suite/locales/en-US/chrome/mailnews/newsblog/am-newsblog.dtd has entities that aren't used, and only mail/ has the entities that are used.
Status: REOPENED → ASSIGNED
Comment on attachment 366402 [details] [diff] [review]
proposed fix, part 2

Indeed. Let's go with one that also unbreaks SeaMonkey :)
Attachment #366402 - Attachment is obsolete: true
Attachment #366402 - Flags: superreview?(neil)
Attachment #366402 - Flags: review?(philringnalda)
mcsmurf, should we rebrand nsIShellService.idl too? ;-)
(In reply to comment #24)
> While you're in account central, could you please fix the "subscibeRSS.label"
> that I missed noticing in that subscibe -> subscribe bug?

What would you like it to be?

<!ENTITY subscibeRSS.label            "Manage subscriptions">
The key, subscribeFeed.label (mostly for the subsc_R_ibe) - the value is fine.
Sharp eyes!
Fix remaining cases, and unbreak seamonkey.
Attachment #366631 - Flags: superreview?(neil)
Attachment #366631 - Flags: review?(philringnalda)
Attachment #366631 - Flags: review?(philringnalda) → review+
Attachment #366631 - Flags: superreview?(neil) → superreview+
changeset:   2180:ca0c7ad9df65
http://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/rev/ca0c7ad9df65

->FIXED
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 11 years ago11 years ago
Resolution: --- → FIXED
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