464469 - [cy] The "Getting Started" page for Welsh

Status: RESOLVED FIXED

(Mozilla Localizations :: cy / Welsh, defect)

Description

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

A new Firefox profile includes a link to the "Getting started" page on the Bookmarks toolbar. The objective of this page is to provide the users with a few task-based starting points. They could use them to enjoy the web and discover sites that will help them get the most out of Firefox, and the Internet in general. This page will be aimed towards beginning and intermediate Web users. We want to promote community/user oriented collaborative sites with good user experience in your region and language, and good standards support.

The current en-US defaults for this page are:
 The 'Work' category: Google Docs, Remember the Milk, LinkedIn, Clipmarks Add-on
 The 'Learn' category: Wikipedia, Topix, HowStuffWorks.com, Answers Add-on
 The 'Play' category: YouTube, Hype Machine, Miro, PicLens Add-on
 The 'Connect' category: Criagslist, Yelp, Facebook, Me.dium Add-on 

(See the en-US page at http://www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/central/.)

We would like to provide a good set of links on this page for our Welsh users.

First, the localization team and Stas (Stas Malolepszy) will look at the market for your language and come up with a good candidates. Dewi, David, we'll need your input on this, of course. The guidelines for making recommendations are on https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox_web_services_guidelines.

Second, once we have a good list of candidates, your localization team will localize the 'Getting Started' index.html file which can be found here: http://viewvc.svn.mozilla.org/vc/projects/mozilla.com/trunk/en-US/firefox/central/index.html?revision=18714&content-type=text%2Fplain changing the en-US default as agreed in the first step.

The logos should be named sites-<sitename>.png and should be 110px wide and 65px high on white or transparent background. Stas can help on getting the logos from the website owners.

The localized index.html and the logos should be then attached in a ZIP archive to this bug, and a review should be requested from Stas ([e-mail]) and Pascal ([e-mail]). Once the review have been granted, Pascal will take over to push the localized page on the server.

Thank you.

Comment 1

[Dewi Jones]

Just adding myself to cc. 

Otherwise I can think of the following of the top of my head for recommendations

Work
  Gwirio Testun Cymraeg / Welsh spelling and grammar checker
  http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill

  Geiriadur Termau  / Terminology Dictionary
  http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur

Learn
  Wicipedia / Wikipedia
  http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafan

  Newyddion / News
  http://news.bbc.co.uk/welsh/

  Drych Digidol / Digital Mirror
  http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1

Connect
  Y Rhithfro / Blogs
  http://www.blogiadur.com

  Heb Y Barnu na'r Cystadlu / The Welsh language forum
  http://maes-e.com

Play
  Rhaglenni Teledu Cymraeg / Welsh language videos and television
  http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic

  Radio Cymraeg  / Welsh language radio
  http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml

Comment 2

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Thanks Dewi, these are really great suggestions. A couple of my comments/questions are inline, below.

(In reply to comment #1)
> Otherwise I can think of the following of the top of my head for
> recommendations
> 
> Work
>   Gwirio Testun Cymraeg / Welsh spelling and grammar checker
>   http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill

Maybe it should rather go into the "Learn" category (see my comment below)?

>   Geiriadur Termau  / Terminology Dictionary
>   http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur

Do you think it would be possible to have this dictionary in a form of a search plugin rather than listed on the Getting Started page? I can write to them and ask if you think that's a good idea.


> Learn
>   Wicipedia / Wikipedia
>   http://cy.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hafan

Yup, definitely.

> 
>   Newyddion / News
>   http://news.bbc.co.uk/welsh/

We already have BBC as the live bookmark (sample RSS feed). How about replacing it with the spelling and grammar checker from above?

> 
>   Drych Digidol / Digital Mirror
>   http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1

I love this site! Definitely a great suggestion.


> Connect
>   Y Rhithfro / Blogs
>   http://www.blogiadur.com

Is this a blog aggregator about Wales?

 
>   Heb Y Barnu na'r Cystadlu / The Welsh language forum
>   http://maes-e.com

Cool!


> Play
>   Rhaglenni Teledu Cymraeg / Welsh language videos and television
>   http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic
> 
>   Radio Cymraeg  / Welsh language radio
>   http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml

These two look great to me.


A summary of proposed changes:

Work

* Google Docs --> stays?
* Remember the Milk --> stays?
* LinkedIn --> stays?
* Clipmarks Add-on -->stays?

Learn

* Wikipedia --> Wikipedia (cy)
* Topix --> http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1
* HowStuffWorks --> http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill
* Answers Add-on --> Spellchecker add-on?

Play

* YouTube --> http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic
* Hype Machine --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml
* Miro --> stays?
* PicLens Add-on --> stays?

Connect

* Craigslist --> http://maes-e.com
* Yelp --> http://www.blogiadur.com
* Facebook --> stays?
* Me.dium Add-on --> stays?


(Plus: try to add http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur to the default search plugins (bug 470764), if possible. If not, add it to Work or Learn category.)

What do you think?

Comment 3

[Dewi Jones]

Thanks Stas! From your summary there are some further Welsh language websites that deserve  inclusion on Firefox's Getting started page. Here are my comments and some further elaborations :

> A summary of proposed changes:
> 
> Work
> 
> * Google Docs --> stays?
> * Remember the Milk --> stays?
> * LinkedIn --> stays?
> * Clipmarks Add-on -->stays?
> 
There are no Welsh language alternatives or localisations to these. Both 

http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur
http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill

that I proposed, as you say, could be better placed in other themes or as add-ons or plug ins, but I'd argue that they make more sense in this theme and they make up the numbers for this theme.

The only other thing we'd have in Welsh to offer would be download pages for localised versions of OpenOffice et al that our 'team' produce and have links to on our website. (there are links to office software localised into Welsh by others as well) i.e.

http://www.meddal.com/swyddfa.htm


> Learn
> 
> * Wikipedia --> Wikipedia (cy)
> * Topix --> http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1
> * HowStuffWorks --> http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill
> * Answers Add-on --> Spellchecker add-on?
>
The Welsh speller add-on is at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3737 

There are some websites on how to learn Welsh. A number of learners decide to use Welsh Firefox in order to improve their Welsh, so it wouldn't do any harm to include websites such as :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/
 
And for proficient Welsh speakers, there are websites for Welsh language improvement:

http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/adnoddau.html

(or in English - http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/resources.html)

Could this theme be expanded to include all of these links?

> Play
> 
> * YouTube --> http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic
> * Hype Machine --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml
> * Miro --> stays?
> * PicLens Add-on --> stays?
> 
There's one or two more more suggestions -

http://www.gemaugwyddbwyll.com/

which is a recently popular Welsh langauge website dedicated to chess and other games. There are also linguistic games (such as crosswords etc) at the BBC website :

http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/ieithgi/ 

These could be instead of Miro and PicLens. (?)


> Connect
> 
> * Craigslist --> http://maes-e.com
> * Yelp --> http://www.blogiadur.com
> * Facebook --> stays?
> * Me.dium Add-on --> stays?
> 
Facebook has been localised into Welsh. So http://cy-gb.facebook.com/ could be the link here. 

To answer a question you had :

Blogiadur.com is an aggregating website of all blogs written in the Welsh language. The subjects vary a lot, from technology to politics to the Welsh language music scene. 

> 
> (Plus: try to add http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur to the default search
> plugins (bug 470764), if possible. If not, add it to Work or Learn category.)
> 
> What do you think?
I think that's an excellent idea. Will update 470764.

Comment 4

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

(In reply to comment #3)

> > A summary of proposed changes:
> > 
> > Work
> > 
> > * Google Docs --> stays?
> > * Remember the Milk --> stays?
> > * LinkedIn --> stays?
> > * Clipmarks Add-on -->stays?
> > 
> There are no Welsh language alternatives or localisations to these. Both 
> 
> http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur
> http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill
> 
> that I proposed, as you say, could be better placed in other themes or as
> add-ons or plug ins, but I'd argue that they make more sense in this theme and
> they make up the numbers for this theme.

OK, I think you have a point here. Let's do as you say.


> The only other thing we'd have in Welsh to offer would be download pages for
> localised versions of OpenOffice et al that our 'team' produce and have links
> to on our website. (there are links to office software localised into Welsh by
> others as well) i.e.
> 
> http://www.meddal.com/swyddfa.htm

That's a wonderful idea. Let's do this!

This gives us three links in the Work category:

* http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur
* http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill
* http://www.meddal.com/swyddfa.htm
(clipmarks add-on stays)

If you feel one of the en-US defaults would be a goof addition to have here, feel free to suggest it. We can have 4 links here instead of 3.



> > Learn
> > 
> > * Wikipedia --> Wikipedia (cy)
> > * Topix --> http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1
> > * HowStuffWorks --> http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill
> > * Answers Add-on --> Spellchecker add-on?
> >
> The Welsh speller add-on is at
> https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3737 
> 
> There are some websites on how to learn Welsh. A number of learners decide to
> use Welsh Firefox in order to improve their Welsh, so it wouldn't do any harm
> to include websites such as :
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/
> 
> And for proficient Welsh speakers, there are websites for Welsh language
> improvement:
> 
> http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/adnoddau.html
> 
> (or in English - http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/resources.html)
> 
> Could this theme be expanded to include all of these links?

Yes, definitely. I really like where you're going with this. I like to think that the Welsh localization of Firefox might actually help someone learn the language, so I'm very much in favor of the additions you suggested. So how about this:

* Wikipedia --> Wikipedia (cy)
* Topix --> http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1
* HowStuffWorks --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/
* (new link) http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/adnoddau.html
* Answers Add-on --> Spellchecker add-on (https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3737)


 
> > Play
> > 
> > * YouTube --> http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic
> > * Hype Machine --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml
> > * Miro --> stays?
> > * PicLens Add-on --> stays?
> > 
> There's one or two more more suggestions -
> 
> http://www.gemaugwyddbwyll.com/
> 
> which is a recently popular Welsh langauge website dedicated to chess and other
> games. There are also linguistic games (such as crosswords etc) at the BBC
> website :
> 
> http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/ieithgi/ 
> 
> These could be instead of Miro and PicLens. (?)

We can't replace the addon with a website, but we can have 4 links in this category as well. 

* YouTube --> http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic
* Hype Machine --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml 
* Miro --> http://www.gemaugwyddbwyll.com/
* (new link) http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/ieithgi/
(piclens, now called Cooliris, stays)


> > Connect
> > 
> > * Craigslist --> http://maes-e.com
> > * Yelp --> http://www.blogiadur.com
> > * Facebook --> stays?
> > * Me.dium Add-on --> stays?
> > 
> Facebook has been localised into Welsh. So http://cy-gb.facebook.com/ could be
> the link here. 
> 
> To answer a question you had :
> 
> Blogiadur.com is an aggregating website of all blogs written in the Welsh
> language. The subjects vary a lot, from technology to politics to the Welsh
> language music scene. 

Great. This category seems to be ready too. :)


> 
> > 
> > (Plus: try to add http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur to the default search
> > plugins (bug 470764), if possible. If not, add it to Work or Learn category.)
> > 
> > What do you think?
> I think that's an excellent idea. Will update 470764.

Cool, thanks!

If you're OK with the current list of suggestions, I'll be happy to help you with the actual implementation, i.e. making changes to the index.html file.

Comment 5

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

I see that the firefox/central/index.html has been already translated in bug 454178 (attachment 347838 [details]). So we will only need to update this file with the new links (with descriptions and logos).

The logos should be named sites-<sitename>.png and should be 110px wide and
65px high on white or transparent background. I'll send email to the chosen websites to let them know that we're going to feature them on the Getting Started page and to see if they can help with the logos.

Comment 6

[Dewi Jones]

I think the links under each theme look good to me. 

I'll co-ordinate with Rhoslyn on adding good descriptions of the sites into the index.html he translated.

Comment 7

[Rhoslyn Prys]

Attachment: Updated Welsh Language 'Getting Started' pack

Could you check this out and get back to me if there are issues? Thanks.

Comment 8

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Hi Rhoslyn. Thanks for updating the web files. Just a couple of comments below:


WORK
* http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur
* http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill
* http://www.meddal.com/swyddfa.htm
(clipmarks add-on stays)

I noticed that you replaced clipmarks add-on here, not in the 'learn' category. I'm OK with this, just checking with you if it was indeed what you wanted.

Also, the image for cysill is broken. The <img/> element should be inside the <a/>, like so:
<h4><a href="http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill"><img width="110" height="65" alt="Gwirio Gramadeg" src="/img/tignish/gettingstarted/sites-cysill.png"/>Gwirio Gramadeg a Sillafu Ar-lein</a> </h4>


LEARN
* Wikipedia --> Wikipedia (cy)
* Topix --> http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1
* HowStuffWorks --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/
* (new link) http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/adnoddau.html
* Answers Add-on --> Spellchecker add-on
(https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3737)

The Wikipedia logo is of very poor quality. Any chance you can redo it?

The last link (Gloywi Cymraeg) is broken. Please use <h4/> for the title and use only one <a/> in it. Also note that you used the http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/ URL for the image, whereas it should be http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/adnoddau.html. And remove the <p>&nbsp;</p> at the end, too.

Something like this should do:

<h4><a class="external" href="http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/adnoddau.html"><img width="110" height="65" alt="Gloywi Cymraeg" src="/img/tignish/gettingstarted/sites-gloywicymraeg.png"/>Gloywi Cymraeg</a></h4>
<p>Mae llawer o ddeunydd ar gael ar y wefan ar gyfer eich cynorthwyo i loywi eich Cymraeg.</p>



PLAY
* YouTube --> http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic
* Hype Machine --> http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml 
* Miro --> http://www.gemaugwyddbwyll.com/
* (new link) http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/ieithgi/
(piclens, now called Cooliris, stays)

I see that you chose to leave YouTube afterall. I would be in favor of choosing only one video site for this category (yt or s4c) which will allow us to include other links as well (2 of which are currently missing from the file, namely http://www.gemaugwyddbwyll.com/ and http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/ieithgi/).

Also, the s4c logo is slightly cropped on the left.



And the last thing: the "More About Firefox" section at the bottom of the page (with 3 links: Features | Tips & Tricks | Help) isn't finished I believe. It currently says:

"Mwy am Firefox
Triciau Firefox"

Comment 9

[Rhoslyn Prys]

Attachment: Update for Welsh 'Getting Started' page

I've checked and corrected the errors you highlighted, I think they are OK now. We've kept to the list of websites as on the previous version, S4C is a Welsh language television channel so it's different to YouTube. Thanks!

Comment 10

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Cool, thanks. Another round of review comments:

There's one syntax error in line 172: | ><script type="text/javascript" src="/includes/yui/2.5.1/utilities/utilities.js"></script> |. Note the | > | at the beginning of the line.

includes/l10n/main.lang file is encoded in iso-8859-1 which results in this:
http://informationisart.com/stas/screenshots/Cychwyn_Arni_gyda_Firefox-20090206-083259.jpg
When I converted it to utf, the problem was gone.

OK for YouTube and S4C, they're both good choices. I still like the idea of having http://www.gemaugwyddbwyll.com/ or http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/ieithgi/ in the Play category. We can have 4 links there, so: would you like to add one of these sites?

Comment 11

[Rhoslyn Prys]

Attachment: Update of Welsh translation

I've done the corrections requested. I've added Ieithgi to the Play group - it's a resource for improving user's Welsh language skills through games and puzzles. It's good fun. Thanks!

Comment 12

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Comment on attachment 363930 [details]
Update of Welsh translation

I'm still having troubles with the main.lang file, but the rest looks good. r=me. I'll attach a working main.lang in a moment.

The final summary:

WORK
* http://www.bangor.ac.uk/termiadur
* http://www.e-gymraeg.org/cysgliad/cysill
* http://www.meddal.com/swyddfa.htm
(+ Welsh spellchecker add-on)

LEARN
* Wikipedia (cy)
* http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=122&L=1
* ttp://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/
* http://www.cynllunsabothol.org/adnoddau.html
(+ answers add-on)

PLAY
* YouTube 
* http://www.s4c.co.uk/clic
* http://www.bbc.co.uk/radiocymru/index.shtml 
* http://www.bbc.co.uk/cymru/ieithgi/
(+ Cooliris add-on)

CONNECT
* http://maes-e.com
* http://www.blogiadur.com
* Facebook 
(+ Shareaholic add-on)

Comment 13

[Staś Małolepszy :stas]

Attachment: main.lang encoded in UTF (no BOM)

Pascal, over to you for commits.

Thanks all!

Comment 14

[Pascal Chevrel:pascalc]

published