Closed Bug 480543 Opened 17 years ago Closed 17 years ago

New mozilla.labs.* newsgroups

Categories

(mozilla.org :: Discussion Forums, task)

Product:
mozilla.org
Component:
Discussion Forums
Type:
task
Priority:
Not set
Severity:
minor

Tracking

(Not tracked)

Status:
RESOLVED INCOMPLETE

People

(Reporter: deb, Assigned: kev)

Details

(Whiteboard: waiting on Google)

As discussed in email, Labs would like a new set of newsgroups set up including accompanying mailing lists and web UI (google groups). The initial groups needed are: mozilla.labs mozilla.labs.concept-series mozilla.labs.experiments mozilla.labs.experiments.3d-canvas mozilla.labs.experiments.bespin mozilla.labs.experiments.personas mozilla.labs.experiments.prism mozilla.labs.experiments.snowl mozilla.labs.experiments.testpilot mozilla.labs.experiments.ubiquity mozilla.labs.experiments.weave
If gerv is ok with this, we'll need moderator(s) for each list before they can be created.
Ok. I'll talk to the guys and see who wants to take which. In the meantime you can slot me in as moderator for all of them.
Got the owners/moderators sorted out: So we want to have Cbeard and myself (deb@mozilla.com) as moderators for all of the lists, plus the following people on these lists: mozilla.labs.concept-series - pfinette mozilla.labs.experiments.3d-canvas - vlad mozilla.labs.experiments.bespin - ben and dion mozilla.labs.experiments.personas - suneel mozilla.labs.experiments.prism - mfinkle, matt gertner (matthew.gertner@gmail.com) mozilla.labs.experiments.snowl - myk mozilla.labs.experiments.ubiquity - aza and jono mozilla.labs.experiments.weave - thunder Let me know if you need anything else.
I'm cool in general with a set of newsgroups for labs, but is it really worth having the "experiments" sub-hierarchy? It also makes it even more obviously wrong when and if various experiments transition to being supported addons or even parts of the product. How about: mozilla.labs mozilla.labs.concept-series mozilla.labs.experiments (for small things without their own group?) mozilla.labs.3d-canvas mozilla.labs.bespin mozilla.labs.personas mozilla.labs.prism mozilla.labs.snowl mozilla.labs.testpilot mozilla.labs.ubiquity mozilla.labs.weave ? Gerv
Please leave 3d-canvas off this list -- thanks!
ok, let's collapse the .experiments into mozilla.labs, drop 3d-canvas, and then go with: mozilla.labs mozilla.labs.concept-series mozilla.labs.bespin mozilla.labs.personas mozilla.labs.prism mozilla.labs.snowl mozilla.labs.testpilot mozilla.labs.ubiquity mozilla.labs.weave
Sounds great. :-) Gerv
Assignee: gerv → reed
Status: NEW → ASSIGNED
Whiteboard: waiting for Giganews and Google
Whiteboard: waiting for Giganews and Google → waiting on Google
Looks like Google has created them (http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?sel=usenet%3Dmozilla.labs%2C&), but I want to do some tests before opening the lists up and resolving this bug, as we've had lots of problems with Google lately.
great! any idea in terms of timeline? we also need to design and post a replacement index page for "Discussions" on labs.mozilla.com in order to push this all live; along with some plan for migrating people from the existing forums (probably just by disabling new posts and putting a header or something on each page pointing people to the new ones) and a way for people still be able to visit the archives.
Reed: what sorts of problems? Is there anything we should be concerned about here? How long should testing take?
(In reply to comment #10) > Reed: what sorts of problems? Is there anything we should be concerned about > here? How long should testing take? Problems as in new newsgroups aren't being set up correctly on Google's side. We have no control over Google with regards to this, and we've lost our contacts with their Google Groups team lately. I can try to poke them about it, but lately we've just ended up waiting until somehow the changes magically happen on Google's end.
kev, do you have any contacts who might be able to help?
I'll talk to the PSO folks tomorrow am and see if they can give us some non-transient contacts. k
FWIW, we were given a non-transient address to use to contact them a few weeks ago, but they're still incredibly non-responsive so far.
Do we have any idea of a rough ETA for closing this out, or are we blocked on getting a response from google folk?
(In reply to comment #15) > Do we have any idea of a rough ETA for closing this out, or are we blocked on > getting a response from google folk? Blocked on Google. I did get a reply back from them saying they're looking into it, but nothing more than that. Their reply literally said "Thanks for the report. We will look into it." :/
Any progress here? I'm somewhat leery of these delays -- if we decide to start a new Labs project it just can't take weeks to get a new discussion group set up.
looks like they are online and working? or are we still blocked? http://groups.google.com/groups/dir?sel=usenet%3Dmozilla.labs%2C&
ok, and thunder and i have just confirmed that it seems to work end-to-end. well, at least in one direction. i subscribed to labs@lists.mozilla.org and successfully sent a message to the list that showed up at groups.google.com, but so far replying to that message hasn't make it back to the list
Anyone know what the current situation is for this? Are we able to use the groups as per Dan + Chris' testing, or are there still things that need to be fixed that we're waiting on Google for?
Oh wait, nm, I didn't see that the "works end-to-end" thing was only one way. Crumbs.
Talked to Reed yesterday about this - bi-directional posting is still busted.
Pulling justdave into this. We're completely blocked on Google on this, correct?
(In reply to comment #23) > Pulling justdave into this. We're completely blocked on Google on this, > correct? Yes, there's absolutely nothing we (at Mozilla) can do about this. It's all on Google's side.
what specifically do you need them to do? perhaps me or chris could try to help...
(In reply to comment #25) > what specifically do you need them to do? perhaps me or chris could try to > help... I need a Google Groups contact who can help debug this issue and get it fixed. The contact(s) I have aren't helping. Kev is supposed to be getting me a better contact.
can you describe the specific issue so that contact with you doesn't block progress?
Bi-directional posting isn't working, from what I understad. (i.e. post to google, it shows up on on the NNTP server and vice versa). I have asked PSO to escalate it, but I don't know what the status on that is. I'll ping Navin again.
This has been broken for a good three to four months on all of our new newsgroup setups. It used to be automated, and whatever automated system they had set up broke a few months ago, and they haven't fixed it yet, and they take at least 2 to 3 weeks to even reply to us when we try to get them fixed by hand, since the automation is broken. That's the current situation.
I've given my PSO contacts Reed's contact information, and will shoot him a note as well.
Kev, can I contact your PSO directly or can you pass off my contact info and justdave's? Reed's often between classes.
(deb, we may want to start contingency planning to just using google groups and leveraging their mailing list functionality, foregoing newsgroups entirely. not ideal but i don't think we can hold out much longer.)
re comment #31, cc'd you on email with my PSO contacts
(In reply to comment #32) > (deb, we may want to start contingency planning to just using google groups and > leveraging their mailing list functionality, foregoing newsgroups entirely. > not ideal but i don't think we can hold out much longer.) No problem.
OK, we've now setup a new index page for the discussion groups at http://labs.mozilla.com/discussions/ and are now pointing to various non-newsgroup google groups to meet our discussion forum needs in the near term. if and when the newsgroups issue is resolved, we've evaluate appropriate next steps. it's pretty clear the the newsgroup bits of google groups are not a priority for them, and so we expect little progress here and certainly little to no future development that would solve other outstanding issues, e.g. spam. thank you all for your help. fingers crossed that this issue resolves itself at some point in the future.
Can we close this bug and re-open if/when google ever has a resolution on their end?
sure, although it should probably be WONTFIX or equivalent
Steve's still working it, and has heard tentatively (as of this am) that it's a q-end goal for them to have it fixed.
Are the groups only rss or can you use it like the mailing lists? For example the dev-apps-thunderbird or any other related mailing lists
When i stated email that consists of getting comments in email and posting from email as a rely
Deb, can we close this? AFAIK, you guys aren't doing google groups newsgroups but normal groups. The larger google newsgroup issue is being tracked elsewhere.
mrz: what do you mean by "not Google Groups newsgroups but normal groups"? The "normal" Mozilla package for all of our discussion forums involves a three-way linkage of mailing list, newsgroup and Google Group. In the case of these ones, my understanding is that the Google Groups part has not yet been set up correctly, but that's exceptional and due to our current problems with Google Groups. Gerv
This can be closed, yes. Labs is using plain ol' (non USENET) Google Groups for now. Not sure which resolution status should be used, so I'll leave that to you.
Hey folks, I'd rather leave it open, as Google has indicated they're working on it. I will take it out of ITs queue and make it my problem instead of reed's, if that's why we want it closed out, unless there's another bug which does track this (haven't seen it, I don't think).
Assignee: reed → kev
Severity: normal → minor
Hrm, is there value in google actually setting up the mozilla.labs.* groups, though? I can't speak for them, but I don't think the labs folks would want to move again.
It's not so much value for labs, but getting the issue with Groups' import script/process fixed so that when we add new groups for things like mozilla.community.*, they get picked up properly. happy to close and open a new one, but for me it's more about getting the problem fixed as a whole (unless we dump nntp entirely).
(In reply to comment #45) > Hey folks, I'd rather leave it open, as Google has indicated they're working on > it. There's half a dozen other bugs tracking the overall Google Groups (USENET) issue. If it's easier for you to track, we'll keep this one open.
it's not. if they're open, great. cc: me on one, or let me know the bugs, if you could. thx.
Status: ASSIGNED → RESOLVED
Closed: 17 years ago
Resolution: --- → INCOMPLETE
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